Water/alcohol injection system. Give me your opinion. - page 1 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Water/alcohol injection system. Give me your opinion. by Sierra94 on 19 Aug, 2007 14:12
• I just ordered this system: http://www.alcohol-injection.com/water-injection-kits-1/universal-19/base-diesel-alcohol-injection-97.html
  
  Anyone here on the board that has tried it on a 1.9 TD without intercooler? Any gains/benefits of running both IC and water injection?
  
  Give me your thoughts/opinions.
  
  Thanks in advance...
• #1 by jtanguay on 19 Aug, 2007 16:36
• the kit i bought uses a solenoid to control injection.  what does this system use?  i saw it talked about needing a vacuum connection.. whats that all about?
• #2 by hillfolk'r on 19 Aug, 2007 19:10
• too much $$$
  what a rip,id never pay that much for that,i dont care if it gave 50hp
  mines cheaper,MUCH cheaper,like under 10$$
  i was rolf when i saw some guy at waterfest pay like 380$ for a  water injection setup
  ive tuned mine in,and at 1 point i was pushing in so much water,it would cough out
  at that point atmoization wouldnt mater,its the quanity of water
  im not running an ic either,and injecting it into the turbo inlet
  if you put it post turbo,you need some kind of boost reference signal to your water tank
  hillfolk sez: dont pay more than 25$ for a water injection setup,and dont pay more than 1.09$ for a jug of poor man's NOS (blue washer fluid)
  actually ive spent more on blue juice than i paid for my system
  this is my "jet",,a pitot tube from an airplane
  heres where my jet is located in my intake tube before the turbo
  
  this was a carb jet i did initial testing with,and it worked good
  
  its after the air filter.hiding on the underneath of the pipe,and most people dont even know what that hose hooks to anyways
  
• #3 by Sierra94 on 20 Aug, 2007 03:11
• You should use a regular style "vacuum hose" to tee in the boost pressure switch so the system knows when to spray.
  
  And as long as you don´t have the pump and tank mounted higher than your spray nozzle it shouldn´t need a solenoid. A regular check valve does the job instead.
• #4 by diffdude on 29 Aug, 2007 09:03
• Sierra94, I just put a snow performance kit on that looks to be the same stuff parts your getting. I put the 100mlpm nozzle in and set the pressure switch to 5 psi and get a noticeable power increase but the motor does seem to rattle more. So i increased the pressure switch to 8 psi and the motor seems to sound better. When the water-meth is injecting the boost jumps up about 5 psi rite away. I now have a 200mlpm nozzle in and it pulls hard at 15 psi.
   
  It is hard to tell if it is cooling the egt's down because it increases boost so fast that the lda increases fuel.
  
  I am running it at 50/50 water meth
  
  My plan now is to do a 2 stage install 60ml at about 3psi and have the 100ml come on at 8 psi
  
  Hope this helps.
• #5 by gnavs on 29 Aug, 2007 11:53
• so hillfolk, for your setup, is the spray pattern more of a jet or is it an atomized cone?  I've been researching the DIY water/meth injection systems and am under the assumption that a cone shaped spray pattern would be best.
• #6 by diffdude on 29 Aug, 2007 13:19
• Here's  the diy I did,
  1. pump http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_357081_357081
  
  2. hobbes pressure switch from Napa  
  
  3.nozzle.
     http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=23  
  
  4. 1/4 plastic tubing and fittings "mcmaster carr"
  
  5. 6 inch pvc and some caps for the water tank"mounted where the spare tire goes"
  
  and some wire from Napa
• #7 by gnavs on 29 Aug, 2007 14:06
• what kind of flow rate are you using?
• #8 by Black Smokin' Diesel on 29 Aug, 2007 15:11
• You can go uber cheap: old gasser electric fuel pump, switch, carb nozzle, tubing and a tank.
• #9 by diffdude on 30 Aug, 2007 09:27
• Now I have a 175ml nozzle in coming on at 8psi.
  
  
  The only problem with a gasser pump is it will eventualy lock up from rust.
• #10 by MikkiJayne on 30 Aug, 2007 14:07
• You don't even need a pump if you're cunning  :wink:
  
  If you plumb a boost line in to your reservoir you can use that pressure to push the water in to the intake through the nozzle, since the intake isn't under pressure. The reservoir obviously has to be sealed so your boost doesn't escape!
  
  You can use a solenoid and pressure switch to control the water flow, and the nozzle size will determine the flow rate relative to boost pressure.
  
  A VW tuner in the UK thought this up a few years ago and it worked really well  
  
  Mikki x
• #11 by Sierra94 on 30 Aug, 2007 16:53
• Hmm, correct me if I´m wrong. That kind of system must be a pre turbo setup to work that way.
  
  Otherwise you must have a lot more pressure to push water through a tiny nozzle into an already pressurized intake for it to work.
• #12 by Black Smokin' Diesel on 30 Aug, 2007 16:59
• Quote from: "Sierra94"

  Hmm, correct me if I´m wrong. That kind of system must be a pre turbo setup to work that way.
  
  Otherwise you must have a lot more pressure to push water through a tiny nozzle into an already pressurized intake for it to work.

  
  
  Good point. Wouldn't injection pressure drop as the level of air that's inside the container increases?
• #13 by MikkiJayne on 31 Aug, 2007 01:27
• Yes it must inject pre-turbo like in Hillfolk'r's picture, in order for there to be a pressure differential between the reservoir and the nozzle.
  
  The injection pressure should remain constant regardless of the air volume in the reservoir, since the boost pressure will remain constant.
• #14 by HarryMann on 31 Aug, 2007 06:37
• Quote from: "Hill'n'folk"

  this is my "jet",,a pitot tube from an airplane

  
  
  Splitting hairs maybe, but unless 'twas you that brazed over the end and put the point on it, that's a static tube, with holes in the sides  
  
  Could equally have been a combined pitot-static tube. Pitot tubes have a hole in the front, to measure Q, dynamic head. Static pressure is taken from the side holes and the two differenced in the ASI...
  
  Always wanted one of them, should have grabbed one when I could...
  
  Anyway, how much methanol d you reckon is in that Blue stuff? 'cos I can't get much of an effect at all with straight water sprayed into the inlet pre-compressor...
  
  Any idea how much you're injecting per minute? 60~150 ml/min seems to be the given figures for small diesels, 250ml/min overkill maybe.
  
  You seem to be getting a very good effect, though can't see how it increases boost pressure itself...