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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Gizmoman on December 01, 2013, 03:00:26 pm
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I just returned home from my first real test run with the Van. It was only 46 miles but it was a decent grade on the freeway at 65-70.
The engine runs real strong but I can't seem to keep my EGT's below 1300F on a 3-4% grade, 4th gear, 3250 RPM and 3/4 pedal. Timing is .95mm, Giles pump, K14 boosting to 15 psi, head has a mild port job, 2-1/2" exhaust and a huge glass-pack.
The boost is running about 12 and the EGT's just keep climbing.
It sucks because the engine has plenty of power but I have to back off to keep from toasting it. I think my goofy Laminova WAIC is not doing it's job. Post IC charge temps were hitting 220F. BTW, I shot the water tank for the IC with a temp gun - 117 F, so it is stripping out some heat.
Oh, the ambient air temp was around 75 F
What are "normal" charge temps with a decent WAIC?
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turn down the fuel screw?
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turn down the fuel screw?
I will if I have to but I'd rather find out if there's something else wrong first. It's not smoking that I can tell so while backing off the screw will certainly lower temps, it will also slow me way down :'(
I think the intercooler is just not big enough. If I had some temperature numbers to work with, it would make things clearer. As is is , I don't know what "normal" temps should be - do you?
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No idea for an AWIC setup. But my FMIC air to air I can give you the hillbilly rundown. I cannot hold my hand on the inlet side of the IC's piping, leaving the IC it feels cold to my hand. So I would guess that coming into the IC it is at least 180f and leaving less than 90f. I guess that because of the temps of water that I know and what my hand feels like if I were to dip it into 180f for a short time. And I know body temp is around 98 so something cooler than that. Bottom line is that it sounds like your IC is not working.
I still think the longer runners would be better.
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No idea for an AWIC setup. But my FMIC air to air I can give you the hillbilly rundown. I cannot hold my hand on the inlet side of the IC's piping, leaving the IC it feels cold to my hand. So I would guess that coming into the IC it is at least 180f and leaving less than 90f. I guess that because of the temps of water that I know and what my hand feels like if I were to dip it into 180f for a short time. And I know body temp is around 98 so something cooler than that. Bottom line is that it sounds like your IC is not working.
I still think the longer runners would be better.
Thanks, I've done a bit of reading online and believe it should at least be cooler than 220. Most of what I find is for gassers and I'm not sure if there would be a difference. Cool charge-air is good for either one.
I hate to admit it but I think this Laminova chingus has got to go.
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When I had intake air sensor on my vanagon with saab900 intercooler in the D-pillar, on a 75 degree day with 20 psi boost, the highest I would see post intercooler was 125°F.
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If the water reservoir is also getting heated to near temps of the water in the core.. then it is not the core that is too blame. The radiator used for cooling the water is clearly too small to remove all the heat from the system and it is "heat soaking".
Is this a pure water mix or is there glycerin in there?
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Flow volume is also a thought.
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The rad is small (maybe 12 X 12 at best) and not really in the airflow. I mounted it under the van with about 2-1/2" of air space between it and the pan. It does have a good fan on it though. The pump is a good one - made for WAIC applications. There is a bit of pentofrost and water wetter as well in the distilled water.
One big difference I should mention between my home-made IC and online jobs, is the ports. The ones I look at online all have at least 1/2" ports. Mine are 1/8" NPT. Two in and two out. I just didn't think they needed to be so large - but I'm certainly not an expert in thermodynamics.
I think the caps are thick enough to tap to a larger port.
Thanks for the replies.
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I bet that has a lot to do with it. You might also gain some cooler rad efficiency by adding a front lip to cause suction through the cooler at speed.
I did that on a Mercedes 309 bus where I added a stock Honda rad and fan underneath in parallel to the OE radiator that could not keep up with the 350, and airflow correction did more for us than the E-fan.
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How big are the inlet/outlet ports on your coolant radiator and the pump? My AWIC radiator and pump from frozenboost are both 3/4" NPT. I think flow is your issue.
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I bet that has a lot to do with it. You might also gain some cooler rad efficiency by adding a front lip to cause suction through the cooler at speed.
I did that on a Mercedes 309 bus where I added a stock Honda rad and fan underneath in parallel to the OE radiator that could not keep up with the 350, and airflow correction did more for us than the E-fan.
Very good idea! - should it lean forward slightly?
How big are the inlet/outlet ports on your coolant radiator and the pump? My AWIC radiator and pump from frozenboost are both 3/4" NPT. I think flow is your issue.
Ports are 1/2" MPT I agree, my IC ports are way too small - don't know what I was thinking :-[
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When I had intake air sensor on my vanagon with saab900 intercooler in the D-pillar, on a 75 degree day with 20 psi boost, the highest I would see post intercooler was 125°F.
Wow - I'm a bit off of that! - Thanks libby
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No idea for an AWIC setup. But my FMIC air to air I can give you the hillbilly rundown. I cannot hold my hand on the inlet side of the IC's piping, leaving the IC it feels cold to my hand. So I would guess that coming into the IC it is at least 180f and leaving less than 90f. I guess that because of the temps of water that I know and what my hand feels like if I were to dip it into 180f for a short time. And I know body temp is around 98 so something cooler than that. Bottom line is that it sounds like your IC is not working.
I still think the longer runners would be better.
Thanks for the suggestion but I don't have room for longer runners unless I ditch the Laminova IC and install a "off-the-shelf" unit. As it is, the intake is about an inch from the side of the bay.
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http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=216&products_id=1034&osCsid=c061cd8152a1f0429d267916d2b01717
their rad is 13x10x2" is yours as thick? I would think if you open up the flow and your rad is sufficient you should have less intake temps than what you do.
I didn't figure you had room for the longer runners as is, but I still think you would like them.
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http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=216&products_id=1034&osCsid=c061cd8152a1f0429d267916d2b01717
their rad is 13x10x2" is yours as thick? I would think if you open up the flow and your rad is sufficient you should have less intake temps than what you do.
I didn't figure you had room for the longer runners as is, but I still think you would like them.
I do believe that's the same rad and fan I have. I'll work on improving the air flow as suggested. I may even remove the fan as it may actually impede air flow.
True, I would like the longer runners if they increase low end torque. I wouldn't like the "wobbly feeling" of the van though after I cut through the rear frame ;D
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FWIW the runners don't have to be straight, you could make them out of C shapes if that would help your situation.
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why not get a 1y/ sdi intake and chop off top and use the runners might that work?
http://www.google.com/search?q=1y+intake&client=ms-android-att-us&hl=en&source=android-launcher-widget&v=133247963&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=PqucUvWsIMKA2gXGu4B4&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#i=4
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I used as much air dam/ducting as i could come up with, and a fan on a thermoswitch, but with a 20 passenger bus, I had a good amount of room to play with.
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If I were to get an "unmodified" intake, in case I want to replace my "modified" one for my 50* AAZ. Would this one work for it?
(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/88/18/15878881_large.jpg) from this topic http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=31782.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=31782.0)
It looks like it has similar "D" style ports as mine and it does have "runners" of a sort. According to some recent suggestions, runners are good for low end. My original one was more of a rectangular box casting with a port on top and a bolt-on 90* elbow - didn't seem to be much thought into it regarding air flow but, I'm no expert.
Anyway, not sure if I'll go that route, just keeping my options open. The one I had seems to be tough to get here in the states.
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That is one of the PD intakes and it would work. I honestly don't see a huge difference over stock ALH or 1.6TD intake, but it would be better. As good at tig welding that you are I would think you could get any 1.6 or 1.9 intake and make something. The 1.6 you could weld and port to the D shape, the 1.9 would be ready to go up with. Time would be a factor but those PD intakes go for 150.00, so cost would be less - time factor.
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That is one of the PD intakes and it would work.
So, are you saying you've run both and this one is better?
I honestly don't see a huge difference over stock ALH or 1.6TD intake, but it would be better. As good at tig welding that you are I would think you could get any 1.6 or 1.9 intake and make something. The 1.6 you could weld and port to the D shape, the 1.9 would be ready to go up with. Time would be a factor but those PD intakes go for 150.00, so cost would be less - time factor.
Thanks for the nice comment on my tig skills but I find them a bit embarrassing - but effective ;D. I'd rather have the proper D ports, and modify from there if needed to fit a possible Frozen Boost intercooler.
My original used to look like this
(http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu107/kaputtschlagen/parts%20for%20sale/aazintake2.jpg)
Not necessarily a technical marvel.
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I have not run both, but from the looks of the design of the PD it is a marginal upgrade IMHO. It has some runner length but since you can tig why not go for the ideal.
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(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/88/18/15878881_large.jpg) from this topic http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=31782.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=31782.0)
That is one of the PD intakes and it would work. I honestly don't see a huge difference over stock ALH or 1.6TD intake,
I have not run both, but from the looks of the design of the PD it is a marginal upgrade IMHO. It has some runner length but since you can tig why not go for the ideal.
The PD150 intake comes off of the 150hp Pump-Düse engine. It is, in stock form an intake manifold that will flow a proven minimum of 150hp worth of air in to the 1.9 engines. Granted, other things changed to achieve that 150hp so you are not just going to bolt this on and make an additional 50-60hp. The ALH intakes were designed for 90hp, and the 1.6 MF intakes were designed for 68hp.. Clearly, because we trust Volkswagens engineering so much the 150hp manifold they designed is by far a better choice when comparing stock manifolds.
No offense to Gizmoman, but how can a guy in a garage hacking up manifolds and welding on runners be ideal?
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I have built it, I guess would be the best answer. If you read about it, it is fairly basic, but to sum it up quickly the longer the runner the faster and better peak torque you will have. If you really get into it you can tailor it to a very specific RPM point. Look at the airflow dynamics and how even though it is air, it travels like a sound wave. The diameter of the runner and the plenum size has more to do with the flow, and to flow 150hp worth of air it is not that hard. I am not talking about HP I was trying to help his low RPM torque issue. For total HP a larger diameter and shorter runner intake is better than what I suggested.
I guess take it for what you will Gizmo, but have built 2 engines that I am guessing had a bunch of power and have modded several stock engines for power gains. YRMV, but I have experience in this and I know what I said is accurate. The PD manifold would be an improvement, but if you figured out the math on the runner length you will be able to easily build a better manifold to what you want. You just have to know what you are doing.
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That is one of the PD intakes and it would work. I honestly don't see a huge difference over stock ALH or 1.6TD intake,
I have not run both, but from the looks of the design of the PD it is a marginal upgrade IMHO. It has some runner length but since you can tig why not go for the ideal.
The PD150 intake comes off of the 150hp Pump-Düse engine. It is, in stock form an intake manifold that will flow a proven minimum of 150hp worth of air in to the 1.9 engines. Granted, other things changed to achieve that 150hp so you are not just going to bolt this on and make an additional 50-60hp. The ALH intakes were designed for 90hp, and the 1.6 MF intakes were designed for 68hp.. Clearly, because we trust Volkswagens engineering so much the 150hp manifold they designed is by far a better choice when comparing stock manifolds.
No offense to Gizmoman, but how can a guy in a garage hacking up manifolds and welding on runners be ideal?
Certainly no offense taken 8-V, I appreciate your perspective and find it very informative which is why I'm here. I really don't want to get into making an entirely custom intake again and if this will provide 150 HP of air flow (given other items are adjusted to suit), I'm nearly there.
Does anyone have the following dimension?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-WVk94ZKFpeg/Up_PpVYhUlI/AAAAAAAACRw/l_GBvSzGH9k/w474-h338-no/PD+Intake.jpg)
I need to see if this will clear the deck lid in the van.
My plan at this moment is to increase the diameter of the ports on my existing Laminova WAIC. If that lowers my IAT to near ambient (which I doubt it will), I'll see what it does to my EGT's. If they are still way too high, I'll up the K14's boost to 18. However, if the EGT's drop a fair amount, but I still am getting IAT temps in the 150 range, I'll go for the PD150 manifold and a Frozen Boost IC. If there's not much change after that, It's time to consider a VNT 17 and mechanical boost/vane control set-up similar to libby's - ugg!
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8" exactly Gizmoman.
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/2013-12-04210641_zps17529a99.jpg) (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/J_holubek/media/2013-12-04210641_zps17529a99.jpg.html)
This other side view does the intake manifold much more justice, as you can see it is somewhat a constant velocity stack the whole way down in to the head. Goes in and slims down the whole way down.
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/2013-12-04210731_zpscd1bdb39.jpg) (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/J_holubek/media/2013-12-04210731_zpscd1bdb39.jpg.html)
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/2013-12-04210921_zps2e838a2f.jpg) (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/J_holubek/media/2013-12-04210921_zps2e838a2f.jpg.html)
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/2013-12-04210737_zps78a1062b.jpg) (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/J_holubek/media/2013-12-04210737_zps78a1062b.jpg.html)
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Looks more like 7" to me.
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Show me your intake picture and we will compare. 8" exactly.
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Mine is way bigger. How about I show you yours instead... Gizmo asked for the measurement between the bolt holes and the outer edge of the inlet. It looks like the end of your tape is hanging over the end of the manifold by a fair bit with the 8" mark right on the bolt holes. OK, maybe 7-1/2"... Definitely not 8" unless something in your photo is seriously warped.
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Bigger, heh. I can dig the edit.
Yup, that is what i measured for him. His picture was a line drawn in paint, of an image where you could not easily take a picture at that angle and see both ends properly. Unless you were 3 feet above it or something.
The end of my tape measure is at the outer edge, and the 8" mark is at the holes. I took the picture, not 7 1/2", 8".
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he is in his argumenitive stupid mode tonight... now worth the effort libby... giz can see the photo...
Yup, he can. Its 8".
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(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/libbybapa/IntakeDimension_zpsb1b353d1.jpg)
Gizmo was asking for the dimension highlighted in RED. The end of your tape measure is not even in the photo but judging by the little metal doohickey I would place it round about where the big BLUE line is. The distance between the end of the RED and the BLUE lines needs to be subtracted from 8" in order to give the desired dimension, unless, as I said, there's something in that pic that is seriously warped...
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I read his post just fine, and understood his picture with the pretty red lines just fine.
Angle of the picture taken as previously described. 8" from red line to red line.
acht Zoll, guter Herr.
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Mine is way bigger. How about I show you yours instead... Gizmo asked for the measurement between the bolt holes and the outer edge of the inlet. It looks like the end of your tape is hanging over the end of the manifold by a fair bit with the 8" mark right on the bolt holes. OK, maybe 7-1/2"... Definitely not 8" unless something in your photo is seriously warped.
That is all.
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So, what you're saying is that your measuring skills exceed your technical photography skills and so, your picture is entirely misleading. Right on.
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IT was misleading. That is why I originally said;
8" exactly Gizmoman.
To deter any sort of misleading. I'm sorry to get you all caught up on the small details.
Edited: for grammatical errors.
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Why do you say you want to postpone being misleading?
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Lol.
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Wow - lots of response ;D - Thanks for the great photos 8-V
What I am looking for is the distance from the bolt CL to the highest point of the casting. Then I can see if it will fit under the lid by measuring from my bolt CL.
It's a great looking casting for sure. Interested in selling?
I am PMing right now with "burn_your_money" as he has an AHU manifold - not sure if it will work out for me though as it seems quite tall. When I look at ones online though it appears shorter than the PD150
So I guess it's 8"? or should I postpone this for a different measurement ;D
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I trust (and appreciate) 8v's response - 8" from bolt CL to highest point on the casting. I'll check it tomorrow after work and see if I have room.
Thanks all.
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No offense to Gizmoman, but how can a guy in a garage hacking up manifolds and welding on runners be ideal?
i think for alot of reasons this can be better, a factory manifold is a balance of form factor, cost of production, emissions, and lastly performance, someone doing garage hacking can put alot more attention to detail into their manifold by using tuned runner lengths, and specific plenum sizing, a lot more attention than a manifold that they're making a million sand castings of, machining the mating surfaces flat and then sending on down the line.
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No offense to Gizmoman, but how can a guy in a garage hacking up manifolds and welding on runners be ideal?
i think for alot of reasons this can be better, a factory manifold is a balance of form factor, cost of production, emissions, and lastly performance, someone doing garage hacking can put alot more attention to detail into their manifold by using tuned runner lengths, and specific plenum sizing, a lot more attention than a manifold that they're making a million sand castings of, machining the mating surfaces flat and then sending on down the line.
Thanks RabbitJockey, I did put a lot of thought into it - and it may work yet ;)
If I could lower the EGT's to 1100 max (without backing off the fuel screw), I'd be a happy camper - it is a Westfalia after all.
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I measured from the top if my IC/intake and have more room than I thought.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TzefcaQRi_s/UqEqkj1695I/AAAAAAAACTA/4iqGuZ-fPGE/w1024-h732-no/AAZ+Intercooler+Assy.JPG)
The PD150 should fit easily but as Theman has suggested, I may just fabricate something with runners.
First I need to see if I can get the IC to work better after I open up the coolant ports.
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holy cow I missed a huge part. You said 1/8npt...the inlet for your rad is 3/4" so you should be using no less than 3/4 like 745 and those said. I thought you had 1/2"npt for some reason I read it wrong. I bet that will get you much cooler doing that this weekend. Now will it help egt or not is the next question.
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holy cow I missed a huge part. You said 1/8npt...the inlet for your rad is 3/4" so you should be using no less than 3/4 like 745 and those said. I thought you had 1/2"npt for some reason I read it wrong. I bet that will get you much cooler doing that this weekend. Now will it help egt or not is the next question.
Yea, see what I mean? - I wasn't thinking ??? The coolant is in the IC way too long and the rad can't deal with the huge differential. The rad has one in and one out, the IC has two in, and two out, so I'll go 1/2" on all four. In my drawing (above) it shows 3/8 but I'll change it to 1/2..
I'd love to see EGT's never go over 1000 as it would help me get plenty of trouble free miles out of the engine. It won't do that without a higher flowing turbo I'm afraid. But if it just gets the EGT's to level off between 11-1300, it's better than the continual climb I'm getting now.
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You might even want to drill the fittings a bit,
area of 2 half inch pipes is 0.392"square, while 3/4" is 0.442" square.
As you will have 4 of the slightly restrictive fittings, my calculator says you want 0.53"+.
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Thanks for the calcs. They reference pipe, not fittings and "T" s which is what I will be running the coolant through. I get your meaning though, and will open them up if possible. There are restrictors in one end of each Laminova cooler tube - they are not removable without cutting them out. I believe they are there to force most of the flow through the small ports directly under the fins on the extrusion OD.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QnW_KXuqYZw/UqKzwyrLWdI/AAAAAAAACTY/jCmyrX-qsCs/w300-h267-no/%2521BZG5MTgB2k%257E%2524%2528KGrHgoH-E%2521EjlLl0T%252BJBKlDYcY2yg%257E%257E_12.JPG) The picture shows one end nearly blanked out ,but there were three radial slots in mine. The water flows with the restrictors on the out-feed end. I truely think 1/2" would be all the fluid that could pass through the tube
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Just an update. . .
I removed each cap and changed the ports from 1/8 to 1/2 NPT. The 1/8" fittings I removed had an ID of .21 and the new ones have a .56 ID. Remember, this is two in, two out and the IC rad is one in, one out so these should be more than enough volume.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PaojSjpvuTk/UqSaE2TC29I/AAAAAAAACT8/XiV6ju22nWE/w1024-h768-no/DSC00701.JPG)
The new fittings wouldn't spin due to the timing belt cover and I also needed more clearance to route the 3/4" ID hoses so I turned some adapters from aluminum.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_i5PiaHtpNI/UqSaFV01x0I/AAAAAAAACUA/6yU6ntebHSE/w1024-h768-no/DSC00702.JPG)
I also installed a vent port on the highest part of the system to bleed the air out.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-E4PTcy50h_U/UqSaA33L-8I/AAAAAAAACTw/hDqBZe06WqI/w1024-h768-no/DSC00703.JPG)
I'm a bit concerned with the nylon fittings as they are only rated to 200F. I hope to stay well below that but we'll see.
Today I will replace all the hoses in the system with new 3/4 ID hose. Currently they are 1/2" and have "T"'s splitting to the 1/4" lines that went to the tiny fittings I was using - again seems pretty silly of me to use those fittings in the first place. Hopefully I'll have it done in time for a test drive before the sun goes down.
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I have used the plastic fittings for a temporary in the actual coolant lines when I couldn't get any other fittings and there were no hoses at the parts store. As soon as I got the right hose I took them out, so I have no idea how long they will work or if you should keep them. Maybe get some brass fittings and keep them with you just in case. This at least isn't as bad as the engine coolant system for making it home.
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Those fittings come in a lot of veg conversion kits, and they can last quite awhile, but I have seen some get pretty misshapen even without an overheat.
they should be fine for some running around, but I would for sure change them out in the long run.
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Those fittings come in a lot of veg conversion kits, and they can last quite awhile, but I have seen some get pretty misshapen even without an overheat.
they should be fine for some running around, but I would for sure change them out in the long run.
I have used the plastic fittings for a temporary in the actual coolant lines when I couldn't get any other fittings and there were no hoses at the parts store. As soon as I got the right hose I took them out, so I have no idea how long they will work or if you should keep them. Maybe get some brass fittings and keep them with you just in case. This at least isn't as bad as the engine coolant system for making it home.
Agreed, I'll hunt some brass ones down. Home Depot ain't what it used to be ;D
I didn't get as far on it as I wanted spent the whole day just making the adapters. Re-routing the 1" OD hose is going a lot slower than I thought as well. The stuff is quite stiff when it's cold.
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I know how you feel. When the turbo blew up for the 2nd time on my car everything seemed to go at a slower pace. You will get it and it should be fine.
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I've played that game before too.
Dunk them on a pot of boiled water for a minute prior to install.
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Thanks for the advice, and yeah, I'm not all that thrilled about crawling around on my back under it - some more. Wish I had a lift.
I used a heat gun to get it on the fittings and to bend tighter coming off the "t"s. It looks a bit crappy and I may machine some custom splitters. I'm also thinking of re-plumbing it so the expansion tank is only that, and not part of the working system. The dashed lines represent the new configuration. The downside is that it removes the tank from my total volume as libby pointed out in another post.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Jgmuew8pIGo/UqXDh-6ze0I/AAAAAAAACUU/4Pp-YXW04yk/w715-h564-no/IC+SCHEMATIC+2.JPG)
The water rushing into the tank makes a bit of a racket - the tank is under the rear bench. My pump is one of these
(http://s7d4.scene7.com/is/image/Turn5/50164?$s7product$)
5.2 GPM @ 5.3 PSI
I sure hope the larger hose and fittings cools off my IA considerably. I've decided that this is the last mod I am going to do.
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You also want to plumb it so that any air will end up at the expansion tank. Otherwise purging may become a challenge.
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You also want to plumb it so that any air will end up at the expansion tank. Otherwise purging may become a challenge.
Agreed; make the expansion tank the highest point of the system instead. I've dealt with B5 Passats that like to get air in the heater cores due to the being the high point in the system instead of the expansion tank. Save yourself the hassle and make the expansion tank the high point and main filling reservoir.
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You also want to plumb it so that any air will end up at the expansion tank. Otherwise purging may become a challenge.
Agreed; make the expansion tank the highest point of the system instead. I've dealt with B5 Passats that like to get air in the heater cores due to the being the high point in the system instead of the expansion tank. Save yourself the hassle and make the expansion tank the high point and main filling reservoir.
Understood, I have a bleeder on the highest fitting in the system and didn't seem to have any issues. The tank is under the rear seat. Not sure if t's higher but it must be or I wouldn't get water out of the bleeder (which I did after all the air came out). The tank is open to atmosphere and it stayed 1/2 full during my test runs.
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In case anyone was wondering, no progress :(
I decided to not use the plastic fittings and have ordered brass (60 bucks worth!). The amount of effort routing the lines is not worth doing it twice.
I'll keep you posted.
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Just an update. . .
I was plumbing new 3/4" water lines for the WAIC and had to add two "T"s to feed the two cores, then two elbows to the "T's - looked pretty hacked up and took a lot of room. As I am waiting for new brass fittings (instead of using plastic ones only good for 200 F), I made two "Y" fittings instead. All the ports are 1/2" and should flow more than the pump can produce. The split should be pretty even as well.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--rUrFNlBsCw/Uq8HVogO-GI/AAAAAAAACUw/BI2-ntG51ro/w1024-h768-no/DSC00704.JPG)
The fittings going in are 3/4 with two 5/8 fittings exiting.
Someday, I may actually get to drive this thing! ;D
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In all reality this is pretty awesome. I wouldn't sweat not driving it. Hopefully the way you are doing it, it will last for more miles and you will get to drive it more. Just look ahead to a point of driving it a bunch and then look back, it will all seem worth it.
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Thanks Theman. Means a lot coming from you.
My wife's a bit upset cause she knows it's now going to interfere with the holidays. I'll try to keep that from happening (if I can).
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Well, the larger hose and fittings helped cool things down - just not as much as I had hoped.
My charge air temps were hitting 220, now with the larger hoses they are maxing out at 150 F when EGT's are hitting 1300. Normal charge temps at about 7-8 lbs of boost (cruising @ 70 mph) put them at 122 F. EGT's are lower as well but I was hoping I wouldn't hit 1300 - I still can, it just takes a bit longer.
Everything is pointing to the IC (two Laminova cores) not being big enough. However, the coolant flowing through the cores is not getting nearly as hot as it was. I believe it was nearing 180 before the hose switch, now it's not going over 120. One thing I love about the cores in the intake - instant boost!
Bottom line, I'm done with this project. The van originally had no EGT sensor or inter-cooler which is why I cooked it in the first place. Now I'm monitoring everything and will just need to back off and downshift when needed. I have also added a remote filter and oil cooler which seems to be working flawlessly. The turbo is rebuilt with the new 360 bearing and step-ring seal. The pump has the Giles touch, ARP head studs, new bearings, rings, one hole MHG, new GP's and pimped circuit. "D" style crank sprocket mod, fixed a bunch of wiring issues, added relays to the high and low beams, new radiator, stainless steel pipes under the van, silicone hoses, etc, etc, etc.
Now that it's in, I clearly have room for a bigger intake (using three or four Laminova cores instead of two). I could also go to a VNT-17 to move a lot more air than the K14 can. But as I said, I'm done. It's quite drivable as it is and time will tell how dependable it is. I feel good about it overall. It starts right up after a few seconds on the GP's, there's no oil mist at all from the tube I have from the hockey puck so I think the rings are seating nicely. I may even switch over to Rotella Synthetic pretty soon.
The plan is to daily drive it for a while and if all goes well, my wife and I will actually go camping in it ;)
Here's some shots of the "Y"'s I made for the larger IC hoses.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yqyt5DJ6ucI/Urdx0GCV_cI/AAAAAAAACVQ/gv1iIvuvr4I/w960-h720-no/DSC00706.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-R0VLqgGTdm0/UrdxzETC_gI/AAAAAAAACVE/D3hGOzwEACM/w960-h720-no/DSC00710.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HTLaXxN1oU4/UrdxzvpTMEI/AAAAAAAACVM/HCJV1lMCTDs/w960-h720-no/DSC00708.JPG)
I've said it before, I'd never even attempted this without this forum and everyone's assistance.
Merry Christmas to all.
Jim
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now that it is very drivable you can drive it. If you want to keep going, you have the opportunity to do so in the future. When you get 6 months of driving or more sometimes it seems like you didn't put that much into it and you can tear into it again. 1300f peak is no big deal really, I would have been very happy with that. Think about it also before with no monitoring what you got away with and all the work you did to it to get it here you will realize it is probably fine. Great to hear that it went well, happy driving, and Merry Christmas
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And home for Christmas too!
you might re-snug your hose clamps with the system warm to be safe. The hose softens a good bit, and i had an embarrassing pop off on a customer fuel line i'd thought I got gutntight in the icy cold.
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1300 isn't terribly bad but approaching the red zone if it was a tdi it would be even less of a big deal. You still haven't dialed back the max fuel screw have you? Try an 1/8th of a turn out. All in all it looks great! Drive the hell out of it and have some fun! You will be better off than 3 vanagons I saw broken down in New mexico when I went to flagstaff back in october.
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Thanks for the chin-up.
I'll be sure to check those hoses warm - good advice.
Iv'e learned so much here. I received answers when I was stumped, bought some hard to find parts from members, joked back and forth - all good stuff, thanks all, just can't say enough.
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Yup, just back off the max fuel slightly. There's nothing magic about it. Alternatively you could place a shim under the accelerator pedal.
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Yup, just back off the max fuel slightly. There's nothing magic about it. Alternatively you could place a shim under the accelerator pedal.
I think Theman said his Giles pump didn't do much when he backed his off. I spoze there's no harm in trying though. I'm starting to get used to lifting my foot within a second or two after I hit the 1300 mark. I have it set for a red light at 1150
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Just an update. . .
The Van is running well but the DIY IC just isn't cutting it (only about 40% efficient). There's lots of pedal left when I'm climbing a grade and high EGT's are making me lift my foot :( . My intake temps are hitting 122F and the water temps eventually climb as well.
I bought a Frozen Boost IC yesterday [/url]http://www.frozenboost.com/[/url] includingsome pipes, clamps and silicone connectors.
Recommended for up to 450 CFM / 350 HP
(http://www.siliconeintakes.com/images/product/intercooler_type9_picture.jpg)
After taking some measurements, it looks like it should fit into the drivers side pillar and keep the piping down to the bare minimum.
I will need to tig up a new intake using the lower half of the one I am using for the modified IC, and will try to add some length to the runners as Theman suggested.
Really didn't want it to come to this but after all the work I've done, not being able to USE the available power makes the whole project somewhat of a failure. Hopefully, a real IC should put things right.
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At 122°F what was ambient? 70°? That doesn't sound bad. Before cutting up what you have, up the boost. Hotter EGTs result from a higher fuel to air ratio. To lower the ratio, you can either reduce fuel (no fun) or increase boost. Put the max boost up to 15-18 psi without increasing fuel and your EGTs will decrease drastically without sacrificing power.
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Thanks libby but I'm already running 15 lbs on the K14 and really don't want to destroy it by going much higher. Also, it may be my DIY controller but it rarely hits 15 and when it does, it's not there for long because my EGT's are hitting 1300 and climbing. I think the two Laminova cores are simply too restrictive (probably needs three or four). I may tweak the spring in the controller and up it to 18 PSI but if the IC is restricting air flow, I doubt it will do much besides shorten the life if the turbo.
The new IC should allow for a significant increase in flow and if I ever feel adventurous I can go to a VNT 17