VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Jagerauto on February 03, 2013, 05:31:21 pm
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Hey guys! I'm always told to search here for information. Just fugred out how to register..
Anyways I've tried searching and the threads usually end like this "I will get in cotact with someone tomorrow *yada yada* " and then no follow up..
Here is what I'm doing:
1.9 AAZ turbo diesel.
I have the stock k14 but thinking of upgrading
I sent my head to Frank Irving to get machined and fixed from an unfortunate failure.
So I got a few new valves, new seals, Stage 2 cam, I think an ALH lifter set?
Haven't done anything to the bottom end.. But I've been told to upgrade to ARP hardware. Where can I get those? All searches come up with 1.6 stuff or a dead end talking about how the 1.6 ones wont work.
For right now I plan on running just enough boost to not need a FMIC.. Later on I will So I'm guessing keep the k14 for now.
I plan on sending my pump to 8v-of-fury, to get him to "tweak" it with the governor mod/reseal/ and 1.6td boost pin.
With the tweekend pump, a k26 would be too big, but a vnt15 is good. Now I read of a hybrid k24/k26 turbo. What are the benefits of that..
At the end of the day, I want some power.. but I want a lot of fuel economy. I dont plan to beat on it all the time, just every now and then, you know, more when it's first finished then when it gets old I'll calm down lol.
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ill buy that k14 if you want to sell it.
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I figured it would be an easy sell... But I need to figure out what I'm doing first.. I do need to sell this 12mm mechanical head I have.. that would help pay 8v-of-fury to rebuild my pump.
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glad you made it over... ever since poortex banned me saying i racuist not been able to post overthere...
think ive thought of new name for there..
FkN w/my i hole
if you not seen django yet.. it will make no sence.. if you have.. id be suprised if it not taken...
but i was following old build.. that swapped to caddy.. sadly i have little aaz info... crazy andy mike been building one (aaz).. he is who id ask.. then theman (aaz into tdi-m w/ahu pieces).. hope they reply to this post...
went to cali in my kubvan.. towed home one of these..
(http://www.crsmp5.com/cali_2012/pic/r5.jpg)
too bad i see no funds to make sowo this year.. ive overspent way too much.. cali trip has crippled me.. screwed up economy making hard rebound..
one day we will get together.. i still rember the invite to crash at the pool house.. :D one day..
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http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=32389.0
Best I have currently. The problem with the AAZ and later diesels is that no one is making a con rod bolt or stud that I have found. Apparently the stock are fine for the big HP ALH so run it.
As far as turbo, what is the budget? If the sky is the limit talk to Trevorb as he has maps for anything and everything. The Finish guys have found a great cheap turbo in Switzer --could be incorrect spelling-- I would do the T3 from VW if you aren't going to do anything crazy it will still make good power.
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Cool thanks. My goal is 200whp. I opened my mouth saying it was possible and got shut down by this dumb ass in town.
The guy is part owner of a shop in town. He is a total dough, and if its not what he likes its stupid. Tells me an AAZ swap is stupid because the car was already a diesel. He asks what is so impressive about a diesel swapped into a diesel, an that I should VR swap it. He is a dumb ass. Anyways he says that I will not see high numbers. And he is baffled at how a diesel could be as fast as a 1.8t..
Like I said a dumb ass. So I want to get the numbers on paper and throw them in his face. :) after that I'm happy with getting as much fuel mileage as possible.
What turbo is LOUD. I love playing with the sounds on the hwy. I don't listen to music if there is a turbo spoolin.
Drove my buddies 05 excursion that has mods out the ringer and it sounds like a jet. Lol loved it!
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I will add that I drove to h2o and back on the k14, it seemed like it was spooled all the time. Only hearing it when I let off at hwy speeds.
I had a k24 on my 1.6 and on the hwy cruising I could make it spool by giving it more throttle.
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I would think 200 would need a GT2359 or similar to flow. Also intercooled will be manditory. Check out Dave Cross or 935 Racers build from leftovers of Malones engine IIRC. He made an honest 195WHP so it is possible but you need a turbo that will do it. Compounds would be an option too. The Alcaid guy is the one with the turbos I know not much about.
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I figured 200 is not possible until I run a fmic, and giles pump.. you think 150 is too much to ask out of this little k14?
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Me personally, yes, I think 150 is too much for that turbo. Trevorb would have to chime in, but I would guess my K24 didn't make much more. I would say 160-170hp tops from a K24 with a huge IC and I had a ported head and Giles pump. I would say after holding a K14 in my hand that it would top at 130 or less. I am just guessing.
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Me personally, yes, I think 150 is too much for that turbo. Trevorb would have to chime in, but I would guess my K24 didn't make much more. I would say 160-170hp tops from a K24 with a huge IC and I had a ported head and Giles pump. I would say after holding a K14 in my hand that it would top at 130 or less. I am just guessing.
i would agree with lucas on everything. make sure you have a good intake manifold and a good intercooler. theres alot of turbos that will get 200whp on an aaz, i think the best value is the turbo which Alcaid is a fan of which is the holset he221w, its cheap, has an antisurge housing, billet compressor wheel, and a 360* thrust bearing so its tough.
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How cheap is cheap? And will it work with the k14 mani?
Any links to where I can buy? Perfer USA dealer..
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How cheap is cheap? And will it work with the k14 mani?
Any links to where I can buy? Perfer USA dealer..
from a usa distributor it won't be cheap. alcaid recommended alibaba.com but to research the distributor and make sure it has good reviews and sells the genuine product. This way you will get a genuine turbo directly from the holset manufacturer in china. he told me 5-600 usd for these. a comparable garrett turbo would be double that.
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AND WHY THE HELL HAVE I NOT SAID HELLO TO A FELLOW VIRGINIAN YET?!?
Hey, I;m the 'Crazy Andy' *mike* CRSMP5 mentioned, and I am building an AAZ to put in a MK1 right now also. Thought I'd verify some things:
1. The OEM turbos you are looking for are either the K24 or the VW 1.6TD-spec T3. Both fit the stock 1.6TD exhaust manifold. The best of the two is the T3, since EGTs don't rise nearly as heavily as the K24, which will see EGTs rise as quickly as the boost (but still be manageable if you have a good IC). Another good thing about the T3 is you can swap it's stock 35 trim housing for a more efficient 40/45 trim housing off of a volvo 700 series T3 (don't remember which year or engine right now off the top of my head, and I don't know if Trev0rbr will either). However if you wanna go large out of the box, then get that Holsett; It will be on my list if I ever go mTDI.
2. I elected to go with Raceware main and head studs, which are really no different from ARP onther than they were a little less pricey at the time of purchase. As far as the rod bolts, the OEM stretch bolts hold up well, and everybody else is right in saying there aren't any aftermarket alternatives.
However, considering your goal of 200 HP, you should probably consider a bearing girdle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54s_jyjMUxY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54s_jyjMUxY)). This will keep your mains from dancing around under full power.
3. Frank Irving of "Frank's TDI"? Good call, sir; you've done a lot of research! Will you be doing any porting yourself? I take the crank sprocket walked and you experienced piston to valve contact, but Frank can fix that easily.
4. You probably already know it, but CHECK YOUR CRANK NOSE AND GET IT D CUT! I WILL SMACK A B!
5. Another thing on running a lot of HP in a diesel is that you get a LOT of torque, far too much for an 020. Seek out an 02A/02J like I did, and run the corresponding flywheel. Don't get a lightened FW, since diesels use the 'wheel as a idle dampening device. Your car will shake itself apart on a lightened flywheel, and you're in a MK1 (as am I) so that'll make your dash fall off in a week. :)
6. Find somebody local to do your exhaust, and don't buy something from TT; too much money for what some welding friend could do with tubing and turbo flange for a DP, with your Friendly Local Muffler ShopTM taking care of the rest. I suggest a Thrush Turbo muffler at least; step-brother has one on his turbo'ed car-that-rhymes-with-Fonda and sounds nice and mellow.
7. Have you given thought to a higher-flowing intake? I'm gonna fun a PD150 manifold myself. I know it's not the most ideal, but the larger plenum and intake ID is better than the stock AAZ mani log. Search around the side, there's a lot of customized manifolds folks run, from 1Y srolls to gassers to full custom welded; look at intercoolers right now so you can know what you want to go with when you really hop it up later. 200 HP is not gonna flow through the stock manifold, no sir.
8. AT LEAST 90% of what Theman53, Trev0rbr, 8v-of-fury, and CRSMP5 say is right. The other 9% you fact check only to find out they are still right. ;D Ribbing aside, take advice from what folks say around here, because a lot of folks here have been doing this for a loooong time. This isn't the Vortex, where BS, drama, and nut-swinging is the name of the game; here we try to talk facts. But with a good proper amount of humor too. Hell, you should see the General section. ;)
If you find yourself in central VA around UVA/C,ville shout out w/ a PM. Hell, just shoot me a PM! You're only the THIRD Virginian here, and it's lonely without any locals. If you need any parts or info help on fairly recent stuff, I'm a VW tech, so I have access to those kind of things. I've also bookmarked alot of the parts I've bought to help me put the 02A in the MK1, so I can give you an entire laundry list for certain things. Again, talking facts. I've gotten soo much info from this site, and I can't wait to give some back.
Hope to see the project soon!
P.S.: Make an intro post in the Ride Wall forum, I wanna see the car. The Avatar pic is just too teasing!!
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Well hello there!
Where to start..
I bought my AAZ after rebuilding a 1.6td and somehow had no oil pressure and ruined the bottom end.
I put the AAZ in my rabbit right before h2o in September. Somehow two lifters it stuck in the head and ruined my cam. I sent it to Frank Irving because a buddy told me to. Frank has taken forever! But it's ok I haven't been ready for it.
I plan on a custom welded/machined intake, I have a buddy that is a welder/machinist at NASA nearby.
I already have an 02j out of a 04 TDi. Can't wait. My main reason for this.. Was I despise the stupid linkages..
I will most likely run stock turbo/intake until I can fund it all at once.
I spent $350 at big Al's having them put 2.5" system on it. Gotta say not a bad job except for the na diesel downpipe.
This was when I first bought my caddy and planned on keeping the 1.6 in it and dailying it while I built the rabbit.
Anyways, month ago a caddy pops up for sale.. I jumped on it sold the rabbit and kept all the good stuff for the truck.
I have a build thread in vortex. Been slow lately.. I will post up a thread.
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Btw there is a rabbit for sale locally with an AAZ in it for $2500. Need work. Low. Head gasket I beleive..
I know another guy with one in a caddy locally too. Never seen it just talked with him about it.
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Sounds like you've got most of the bases covered then. I will say, though, you should definitely go to a flanged flex-piped downpipe when you upgrade your turbo system. Leaps and bounds better than the stock-style dual-clip toilet bowl. And search out a good stage 1+ clutch setup, something that can take 350+ ft-lbs and still have good street feel. I'm going with an OEM Sachs VR6 clutch, which can take about 300 ft-lbs, but my power goals aren't as crazy as yours. What's your trans code?
As far as transmission linkages go, you can use the cable box and just route the cables though the firewall hole for the auto trans cable. There is an alternative, however. Claus Von Essen (http://www.clausvonessen.de/pi38/pd648.html) sells a rod adaptation kit for 02A/02J trans swaps into a Mk1. A little coin as well a an overseas shipping wait, but you don't have to fab up a custom center console to hide the shifter box, or drill holes in the exhaust tunnel and fight exhaust piping to mount the box from below. User Alleslowbuged uses the same setup in his Rabbit project. I chose this because I like my interior though, so YMMV. As far as mounts, JustCaddys(http://www.justcaddys.com/02a-and-02j-gearbox-mounts.html) in Britain and Nothing Leaves Stock (http://forums.speedarena.com/showthread.php?5211552-***NLS-02j-02a-trans-and-1.8T-fsi-tdi-mk1-conversion-mounts!***) here in the US of A both do fabbed 02A mount swaps. A corrado cable will work with the speedometer, though mating with a diesel cluster might be a little tricky as diesel speedo cables are screw in. You can use a 1993 eurovan cable clutch actuator, and either a true 02A eurovan or Honda CRX clutch cable (CRX is long and needs to be loped, though). Add 16v rocco or post '86 cabriolet axles and you're good to go.
The AAZ will be a nice addition to a Caddy. You'll be able to haul and tow like you always wanted to! Look up user StewartDC, who did a tuned AAZ in his.
Cool to hear there are other cars in the area; I'd stick to one project at a time though. Multiple projects are a sure fire way to spread your time and money waaay too thin.
Lastly, will you be going to MK1 Madness this year? Great place to meet some other forum members, talk shop, compare cars, and have a plain old good time. 2nd week of July IIRC.
EDIT: I forgot to mention to not forget a pre-tubo Exhaust Gas Temperature sensor.
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I'm using the 02j shift box. Code acn? I think..
I was already using a flanged DP. But I need to lengthen it a tad for the new 1.9. I plan on a flex section on the vertical section so if I hit it on the ground I won't crack it again.
I know I know.. Crazy low is stupid. But I live the way my rabbit sat, and will suffer the consequences. ;)
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Yes, the AAZ block assembly is about 3/4" taller, so adding the flex in the vertical section helps.
ACN is an 020 code; a good trans, but would get shattered behind the torque monster you want to build.
And I have to agree with you on stupid low. They just look too good, and I'd do that low myself if the roads here weren't crap. Gonna at least get a nice 60/40 or 60/60 spring set w/ some kick-ass classics, flares, tan & wood grain; go '80s-tastic you know?
Is your 'tex screen name the same?
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Yes, the AAZ block assembly is about 3/4" taller, so adding the flex in the vertical section helps.
ACN is an 020 code; a good trans, but would get shattered behind the torque monster you want to build.
And I have to agree with you on stupid low. They just look too good, and I'd do that low myself if the roads here weren't crap. Gonna at least get a nice 60/40 or 60/60 spring set w/ some kick-ass classics, flares, tan & wood grain; go '80s-tastic you know?
Is your 'tex screen name the same?
Name is the same. I have an 02j just need messing with too many codes I can't remember one from another.
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So yes or no to franks stage 2 cam.. Worth the extra $170?!? Need to know ASAP! Need to send him money
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Does he do like Dr. Diesel and just do a base circle grind? If yes that I'd go for it, since Dr. Diesel cams are really nice. $170 does sound like good price for a cam upgrade.
EDIT: I think frank uses Colt cams, and if so then yes I would do a Colt cam!
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Does he do like Dr. Diesel and just do a base circle grind? If yes that I'd go for it, since Dr. Diesel cams are really nice. $170 does sound like good price for a cam upgrade.
EDIT: I think frank uses Colt cams, and if so then yes I would do a Colt cam!
I splurged.. I don't believe he uses colt cams. My buddy had the experience of the difference between one and another and said franks was way better.
Frank says the stage two has .020 more lift than stock alh. And .025ish over the stock AAZ. So If anyone is wondering an alh cam is an upgrade to their stock AAZ/1.6 motors.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/06/adabena2.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/06/runaqequ.jpg)
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Cool, good to know on the cam specs, although 0.5 dosen't sound like much. Still, it is more.
Dang, you went all out on that head. Still it'll be the best, quietest-operating head you've ever had. That's what the ALH guys say about his heads.
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Can't wait! I opted for Basic machining and then the two lifter bores had to be fixed an both valves replaced.
Bah I can't wait to put some gold paint on that thing! Don't worry the only gold will the the block/head/trans. Much more would be over kill.
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Andy have you looked at my post on in the users rides section?
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Andy have you looked at my post on in the users rides section?
Yup, seen the original car. Red/tan kind of a funny combo for me (too LOUD), but she looks GOOD on the outside; love those polished W123 wheels. I own a mojave beige 4-door myself, so it's reminiscent of home, and a good indicator how my car will look if lowered also. Noticed you are running top hats that use the MK4 strut bushing. Did you get them from Old Skool Vulcan Werks?
Good job on tackling all the rust repair in the wings. You'll be keeping that car on the road for a few decades more, hopefully. Do you plan on painting the car another color?
As far as painting the block and trans go, I'd suggest you paint the block, trans, valve cover, and pump head. Leave the other surfaces bare aluminim along with the starter, accessory bracket, and oil filter boss. The shine of the aluminum will be a good silver-ish accent to all that gold. Keep hardware natural, too. Also, consider leaving the 02J side plate and timing belt cover either black or clearcoated bare metal for a nice shine trifecta, if you will. And if you keep the paint silver . . . well . . . keeps the theme going! :)
It's just my opinion, you know, no need to take it too seriously. Either way, grade A choice for upper end, mate! Might have to con you into coming up here when it's done just to see it.
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Plan to paint the truck a deep maroon. Gold motor with maroon accents should be nice. And some black.. If anything else chrome stuff. ;)
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Gotta ask. How do I go about turning the boost up? Just enough to get away with no intercooler.
I'm already looking into turbo options. I need to sell some parts and make some money to get it all at once. I like doing things in bursts, or else it will collect dust.. :/,
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No more than 11-12 psi w/ no intercooler on the stock AAZ turbo, since that's about 75% of the turbo's safe output. Your EGTs will soar if you go any higher.
And as far as turbos, if you'd like to just go about 140-155 HP right now, then get either a stock W K24 or T3 w/ the 1.6 turbo manifold and turn up the boost on them. That will still be safe on a stock rebuilt bottom end w/ at least head studs (mains recommended), and a good ebay intercooler will work fine with that setup with corresponding exhaust upgrades (which you already have in your 2.5" system). With 8v doing your pump, and maybe a PD mani, this will even out to good daily power with your head and cam work.
But if you really want to go as big as the 200+HP you want, right now, then get the Holsett He221w Trev0rbr mentioned. But your bottom end will need to be FAR from stock; girdle, main and head studs, coated pistons, Rosten rods. The rest? Custom optimized intercooler preferably AWIC, optimized intake manifold, Giles pump, remote oil cooler, all that stuff. I won't mention ported head and big cam since you already bought them. 4 grand of stuff at least, not even getting into the driveline. This is a go-big-or-go-home level of insanity.
I like insanity. 8)
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Giles pump is a big purchase. If its a mandatory than I should hold out on getting the pump resealed.
I can run the electric fuel pump for now.
So where can I buy a holset turbo? I can't seem to price one.
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Also what manifold would I use?
I read that a k26 provides stupid boost.
Also say I upgrade the turbo but not turn the boost up until an intercooler is added?
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I would add the giles pump then mess with the turbo.
OR I think if you could find a K24 or T3 from an older VW you would be fine to run about 15 non intercooled and it would be cheaper than doing it all in one shot now.
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Also what manifold would I use?
I read that a k26 provides stupid boost.
Also say I upgrade the turbo but not turn the boost up until an intercooler is added?
k26 looks like dooky for use on a 1.6 from everything i;ve seen, also there are alot of different k26's the compressors can flow a good amount of air but they're not efficient at higher boost pressures. there is a guy locally who has a k26 from a 944 on his 1.6td and it supposedly hauls ass hopefully i will get a ride in it soon. i drove a car with fmic gov mod and a k26/k24 i didn't think it was very fast.
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Make sure, when you port the head, that you match the ports of both manifolds, manifold to turbo and clean up all the rough surfaces inside the exhaust manifold and inside of the turbo. Every little bit helps. Good heat shields around the turbo to keep the heat away from the 'in' side an keep the heat thru the exhaust side. Wrapping the exhaust for several feet after the turbo is good, too.
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Gotta ask. How do I go about turning the boost up? Just enough to get away with no intercooler.
I use a manual boost controller (Hallman, but any one will do, you can even make one) Dead simple, and easy to adjust and set. Get enough hose for it and you can even run it into the cabin and play with the boost on the fly. Ebay has plenty of examples.
You MUST have functioning EGT and boost gauges... easy to slag your turbine wheel doing this blind.
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I have an egt,boost,huge diesel tach, oil pressure and temp.
When I say huge tach it's like 4" but its so cool looking
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Ricer status! lol
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Ricer status! lol
No no like it should be I an airplane lol
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Ricer status! lol
No no like it should be I an airplane lol
Does it have a huge yellow shift light too? lmao
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No lol
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i have a giles 1.6td pump.. 850 shipped... been in same plastic bag since i got it.. came from a old mod here by name of myke_w.. he ran it a month or so before going to tdi in his mk2 coupe..
i can give you his info to discuss its mods and such.. but it ran realy good.. only car ive been in with giles pump..
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Ricer status! lol
No no like it should be I an airplane lol
Does it have a huge yellow shift light too? lmao
Nah
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/07/uryra3u9.jpg)
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duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude, aweeeeessssoooooommmmmeeeeeee.
I am loving it!
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i have a giles 1.6td pump.. 850 shipped... been in same plastic bag since i got it.. came from a old mod here by name of myke_w.. he ran it a month or so before going to tdi in his mk2 coupe..
i can give you his info to discuss its mods and such.. but it ran realy good.. only car ive been in with giles pump..
Sorry my AAZ pump is a 11mm so... That would be a downgrade. Making my pump into a super pump shod be retarded though. Hah.
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how to tell what head... ?? giles built this pump.. myke was going for 150-200#s.. it may be bigger.. but knowing this.. cannot use # on pump case...
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how to tell what head... ?? giles built this pump.. myke was going for 150-200#s.. it may be bigger.. but knowing this.. cannot use # on pump case...
I don't know much about these pumps.. Or what Giles even does to them. But I know I have an 11mm pump that the aaz's came with. Not even sure what that refers to.. Haha.
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AAZ's did not come with 11mm, they came with 9mm like 1.5 and 1.6's.
11mm was Rover pumps, peugeot pumps, and ALH auto trans pumps.
I am unaware of ANY AAZ with an 11mm pump from stock.
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so 8v.. does pump head have external marking??
11mm refers to the plunger stroke/size i beleive.. aka more fuel..
eco diesels have 8mm pump right? others 9mm.. tdi 5-speed = 10mm, tdi auto = 11mm.. just random thoughts there in my head
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Head doesn't have external markings.. BUT removing that three sided plug between the delivery valves will allow you to measure the plunger. Best you can do without dismantling, You'd have to remove the delivery valves too.
8, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 14mm refer to the actual diameter of the plunger. The plunger will be whatever size in diameter. I have seen the stroke (measure B in the diagram) measure from 2.1mm of a Peugeot pump, 2.26mm of a 1.6TD pump and 3.13mm of a 1.9 AAZ pump. I did not measure my rover pump, or the 10mm AHU pumps cam plate.
(http://mebonty.monobasin.net/figure_6_lg.png)
Bigger plunger, same stroke = more cc of fuel per stroke.
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Just for future reference here for you...
You can derive the plunger diameter very easily from the 6th digit found in the Bosch part number on the pump.
For example...
1.6TD pump: 0 460 494 182 = 9mm plunger
1.6ECO pump: 0 460 484 ### = 8mm plunger
They used a 0 for 10mm plunger, not sure about sizes larger than that. 1 = 11, 2 = 12, etc perhaps ?
But if someone has taken apart and modified stuff, the only way would be to measure.
Keep it up, lookin' good.
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0 460 414 099 is my 11mm rover number
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Nah
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/07/uryra3u9.jpg)
Dude, I bought that SAME EGT GAUGE! Got yours from aircraft spruce as well? WHat probe did you pick up? My EGT wire plugs are different from the gauges plugs.
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Dam somewhere I read said AAZ came with 11mm pumps.. Or someone told me that. According to the PN its a 9mm. Dammit lol more bad news. That's why I joined this forum. To learn more than I know.
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Do you guys think a girdle could be made? I have a buddy that is a welder/machinist at NASA that could prolly make them for cheap.
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Do you guys think a girdle could be made? I have a buddy that is a welder/machinist at NASA that could prolly make them for cheap.
head girdle or main cap girdle?
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main
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people have more trouble keeping the head bolted down, rather than trying to keep the crank in the block..
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main girdles have been made in the past i think there is a card drawing floating around on the forum.
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main girdles have been made in the past i think there is a card drawing floating around on the forum.
If anyone could provide me with the drawing I can send it over to my buddy. And get a price.
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main girdles have been made in the past i think there is a card drawing floating around on the forum.
If anyone could provide me with the drawing I can send it over to my buddy. And get a price.
main girdles have been made in the past i think there is a card drawing floating around on the forum.
If anyone could provide me with the drawing I can send it over to my buddy. And get a price.
like i said, the issues are with keeping the HEAD on the block, not keeping the crank in the block..
this is going to do nothing in regards to how much boost/drive pressure the engine can actually handle..
a block girdle is not necessary until you have a reason for it. like i said, the head is going to let go LONG before the bottom end will flex enough to warrant a block girdle..
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Do you guys think a girdle could be made? I have a buddy that is a welder/machinist at NASA that could prolly make them for cheap.
I would buy two or three if they were made available reasonably and domestically.
The only one I've found on here was made by "Aki-76" in the "Jetta Project 200" thread here...
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=17081.0
Get lost in that one for a few hours...or days. :)
It is very good, all the pics still work!
Not sure if the actual specific CAD or any drawings are in there, but I remember a lot of talk about that main girdle in that thread.
Give it a read, it is very cool stuff.
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main girdles have been made in the past i think there is a card drawing floating around on the forum.
If anyone could provide me with the drawing I can send it over to my buddy. And get a price.
main girdles have been made in the past i think there is a card drawing floating around on the forum.
If anyone could provide me with the drawing I can send it over to my buddy. And get a price.
like i said, the issues are with keeping the HEAD on the block, not keeping the crank in the block..
this is going to do nothing in regards to how much boost/drive pressure the engine can actually handle..
a block girdle is not necessary until you have a reason for it. like i said, the head is going to let go LONG before the bottom end will flex enough to warrant a block girdle..
I realize that.. I have arp head studs bought from Kerma tdi.
I just want to get prices on everything so I can start saving. I plan on going down the road where a girdle is needed apparently.
I'm sure I can have them made very cheaply. And top notch quality probably better than others.
He made my extenders and stands by them in them being better heat treated than others. He sells them for $175. He makes tons of stuff for the fun of it and his profits are minimum.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/05/y8u5y6yd.jpg)
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Pm me your email for the CAD drawing of the main girdle. It is from the guy who was selling them here a few years ago. It is 6mm and I also have the drawing for the main cap spacers (10). The ARP part number for the main studs with 6mm (1/4") girdle is 209-5401.
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Yeah, IIRC it was truckinwagen that made them before. Search the forum and especially the FS section as he was selling them there. He had them waterjet or laser cut.
As ROR states, the head is the weakest link of this engine. I don't even think Andy 2 had bottom end support when he put 6 head bolt holes extra in the stock aluminum head...and still blew it off.
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So my buddy says these people plasma cutting sheet steel without grounding them flat are stupid. Sheet steel is not completely flat, and oil leaks are guaranteed.
Any ideas?
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I have seen a few tdi and aaz throw rods stock
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Cold rolled is supposed to be accurate to .005" there shouldn't be oil leaks unless they get it too hot plasma cutting. Hot rolled is way worse, but still with gaskets above and below all would be well for oil leaks.
Water jet would be best.
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"Not even close, cold rolled still has a .010 variance or so, hot rolled like .050"
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For example...
1.6TD pump: 0 460 494 182 = 9mm plunger
1.6ECO pump: 0 460 484 ### = 8mm plunger
They used a 0 for 10mm plunger, not sure about sizes larger than that. 1 = 11, 2 = 12, etc perhaps ?
0 460 414 099 is my 11mm rover number
My 11mm Rover pump is this number, 0 460 414 069.
Think it is safe to say that 1 is for 11mm ;).
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My buddy is looking into chro-Molly and having the sheet ground before cutting. Making a perfectly flat no leaky girdle. I will have a solid quote on a minimum of 10 tomorrow if anyone is interested.
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"Not even close, cold rolled still has a .010 variance or so, hot rolled like .050"
My dude was off then, even so if the hot rolled is .050. I would trust that with any gasket type there is.
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"Not even close, cold rolled still has a .010 variance or so, hot rolled like .050"
My dude was off then, even so if the hot rolled is .050. I would trust that with any gasket type there is.
Still how about one that is perfect? I'm willing to bet that all the $400-$800 ones are.. And that's why..
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As soon as you deck the bottom of your block to get it within .010" then sure. IMHO it is pointless to have a block that is no where near that perfect seal and have a plate that is aerospace approved so it will seal against it. I messed up and welded my drain into the pan REAL hot. Warped it about an 1/16 to 1/8" in a 1" span and it sealed fine. Remember that whenever you bolt it down it will warp to the block a bit. Just like our engines should have the mains bolted in when bored because the block will distort ever so slightly, this will do the same.
I am not trying to discourage you. At the end of the day, adding to the extra cost to a girdle for a 20+ year old engine in an economy car to make HP... I am all for HP and modding these, but my reality is cold rolled would be fine.
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AAZ's did not come with 11mm, they came with 9mm like 1.5 and 1.6's.
11mm was Rover pumps, peugeot pumps, and ALH auto trans pumps.
I am unaware of ANY AAZ with an 11mm pump from stock.
North American Peugeot pumps never came with an 11 mm pump to the best of my knowledge. They came with 9 or 10 mm. I happen to have one of each.
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Do you guys think a girdle could be made? I have a buddy that is a welder/machinist at NASA that could prolly make them for cheap.
head girdle or main cap girdle?
Do they even make head girdles? How would that even be done??
Also, another thing I just thought about: will you be coating any of your piston surfaces? Swaintech does heat-resistant coatings for piston tops and frictionless coatings for skirts. Food for thought.
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Is that going to be your stand alone tach? I should have a MK2 cluster with a W terminal diesel tach for sale soon. I think it'd be an improvement over the stand alone tach.
Ricer status! lol
No no like it should be I an airplane lol
Does it have a huge yellow shift light too? lmao
Nah
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/07/uryra3u9.jpg)
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Do you guys think a girdle could be made? I have a buddy that is a welder/machinist at NASA that could prolly make them for cheap.
head girdle or main cap girdle?
Do they even make head girdles? How would that even be done??
Also, another thing I just thought about: will you be coating any of your piston surfaces? Swaintech does heat-resistant coatings for piston tops and frictionless coatings for skirts. Food for thought.
What's that cost about?
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Depends on how much coating you go with. Swaintech does it. It ends up about 75.00 per piston. Audi technologies/Air cooled engines plus does it, but don't contact him until my head is done. He has had since last April. I want it to be done. But he has the same stuff as swaintech, but he doesn't charge as much.
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theman.. The block surfaces are machined they should be within a thousandth.
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AAZ's did not come with 11mm, they came with 9mm like 1.5 and 1.6's.
11mm was Rover pumps, peugeot pumps, and ALH auto trans pumps.
I am unaware of ANY AAZ with an 11mm pump from stock.
North American Peugeot pumps never came with an 11 mm pump to the best of my knowledge. They came with 9 or 10 mm. I happen to have one of each.
You might be right, I have touched to many to accurately remember.. lol The Peugeot is probably a 10mm.
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Mine block surface was machined about 30 years ago. I can see lines that are over .020" from the factory fly cutter and worse from PO's scraping away. Like I said my oil pan is warped when I welded it about an 1/8" in a 1" span as well.
At some point you are separating fly crap from ground pepper. I am not saying that your idea of a mostly flat girdle is bad, but I think it is a bit not needed. The oil pan is not rotating mass, it only needs to seal. The stock aaz oil pan gasket or the stock 1.6 gasket is plenty is all I am saying. When you send this part to a universal grinder *I sell to people who do this with custom 3M abrasives* the cost will go up considerable. I am saying I would rather spend the money were it matters as I am a cost effective kind of guy. This IMHO doesn't matter if cold rolled is within .050" or whatever you said it is for the extra $$$. If the block is close to .001" as you say then the plate would conform to it in the first heat cycle.
End game for me is if you could get this done and flat as you want AND make it at 100 USD, yes I would gladly use it over a cold rolled for the same price. If yours was 250 USD then no way I would spend more coin to do so. It isn't that you are off on thinking the flatter the better, but I could guarantee anyone with 2/3 a brain and a new gasket could get cold rolled to seal perfectly.
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Do you guys think a girdle could be made? I have a buddy that is a welder/machinist at NASA that could prolly make them for cheap.
head girdle or main cap girdle?
Do they even make head girdles? How would that even be done??
Also, another thing I just thought about: will you be coating any of your piston surfaces? Swaintech does heat-resistant coatings for piston tops and frictionless coatings for skirts. Food for thought.
What's that cost about?
Depends on how much coating you go with. Swaintech does it. It ends up about 75.00 per piston. Audi technologies/Air cooled engines plus does it, but don't contact him until my head is done. He has had since last April. I want it to be done. But he has the same stuff as swaintech, but he doesn't charge as much.
Could you throw up a link for them? Promise I won't contact them, though ;)
And here's Swaintech's link: http://swaintech.com/race-coatings/diesel-engine-coatings/diesel-coatings-price-sheet/
And theman53, are you talking about where the girdle would seal to the block itself? Didn't one of the Finns, either aki776 or MJF IIRC, use flush screws to secure the girdle to the pan sealing surface? I'd think just with a thin bead of sealant and the torque of the flush screws/bolts would be enough for the girdle sealing. After that just let the oil pan gasket deal with the rest. If cold rolled flexes a little then it'll be fine for girdle work; I'd think a little flex in the metal is god for taking up some lower end vibration, or else too hard and it would crack like aluminum when struck.
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Could you throw up a link for them? Promise I won't contact them, though
no
Just don't search Air Cooled Engines Plus in Tiffin Ohio either. I will let you know when I have head and you can contact John there.