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General Information => General => Topic started by: bbob203 on September 24, 2012, 08:05:46 pm
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Months in the making im finally buttoning this project up. Last final questions i have is
1. I have a spin filter and housing from a rabbit i want to use but cannot manage to find a good spot to put it...
2. Do cone filters flow as good as a the stock airbox this thing is a big bulky pain in the ass to remove and install..
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Months in the making im finally buttoning this project up. Last final questions i have is
1. I have a spin filter and housing from a rabbit i want to use but cannot manage to find a good spot to put it...
2. Do cone filters flow as good as a the stock airbox this thing is a big bulky pain in the ass to remove and install..
1.) make a bracket, it fits nicely in the same spot the rabbit filter fits..
2.) sure they flow as good, but you have to clean them 3x as often, being that there is no protection around them AKA AIRBOX..
my GLI has the charcoal canister taken out of the pass side fenderwell, and my intake piping runs thru that hole, and my air cleaner is down in the fender, kinda down by the power steering pump.. actually, the end of the filter is only about 1" away from the p/s pulley.
and uh, mk2 air boxes are CAKE to remove and install.. try removing the air box out of an audi 4k/quattro, then ell me the mk2 is hard?
if you have a TD air box, i would run it.. ive been looking for AGES to get a real mk2 TD air box.. would love to get rid of my intake system..
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TD airboxes are awesome. Kev i have two.. Text me.
Filter should mount up easy peasy.
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same spot the rabbit filter fits.. looked up pics on google couldn't come up with where this is vie never worked on a rabbit. i have found a few pics of na mounting location but none for td.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/vwpieces/My%20cars/83%20Jetta%20Turbo%20Diesel/P0003433s.jpg)
stock mk1 TD mounting spot
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/vwpieces/My%20cars/83%20Jetta%20Turbo%20Diesel/P0003433s.jpg)
stock mk1 TD mounting spot
AH ha. Your google fu skill very good my son. Thanks!!
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looks like a total PITA to change though.. lol
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That's a MK1 engine bay isn't it?
Are we talking about MK2 fuel filter placement?
Because i think mine fits right behind the stock TD airbox, on the strut tower.
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That's a MK1 engine bay isn't it?
Are we talking about MK2 fuel filter placement?
Because i think mine fits right behind the stock TD airbox, on the strut tower.
yes mk2. i thought about using stock location but seemed it sticks up to high to close the hood.
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(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/136/ad66914c789c48c289ebc2f102d41f5e/l.jpg)
If you have: a drill, a piece of sheet metal, MK1 filter, MK1 bracket, an imagination, and just a bit of intelligence it is possible.
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(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/136/ad66914c789c48c289ebc2f102d41f5e/l.jpg)
If you have: a drill, a piece of sheet metal, MK1 filter, MK1 bracket, an imagination, and just a bit of intelligence it is possible.
sometimes my ocd gets the best of me.
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this is what i was talking about..
mounting it in the same spot as a n/a rabbit..
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a hammer and some finagling i used the stock mk2 filter holder didn't thing it would clear the hood but alas it did.
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Got it cranking over tonite wouldn't start though cracked and injector while cranking it and its dry as a bone. Resealed ip from jeremy swapped out delivery valves the ip definitely has fuel in i primed it and have it bottle fed. ???
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Is the stop solenoid getting power? There should be very little fuel actually coming out of the injector lines, it needs a few cycles to produce even a small drop of fuel out of the delivery valves.
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Is the stop solenoid getting power? There should be very little fuel actually coming out of the injector lines, it needs a few cycles to produce even a small drop of fuel out of the delivery valves.
i think it is how would i know if it is or isn't?
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With the key on, removing the wire to the stop solenoid and touching it on and off should hear a click-click-click for every on and off of the wire.
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solenoid clickity clicking. all fuel in the line drained into the ip last night. i have moved pump across it full range of motion for timing and tried starting it from several different points it isn't even attempting to fire. STUMPED...
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I would put an inline low pressure pump to ensure fuel is getting to the injection pump.
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solenoid clickity clicking. all fuel in the line drained into the ip last night. i have moved pump across it full range of motion for timing and tried starting it from several different points it isn't even attempting to fire. STUMPED...
you got an air leak. the pump should NOT lose prime once it is primed..
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I agree with a fuel line leak. The pump wont even think of movimg fuel if there is air inside of it. The high pressure pickup ia at the top of the pump pretty much.
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I'm gonna pickup a mr gasket diesel lift pump at oreilly for 60bucks I figure it can hurt in the long run anyway. I'm also gonna get a vacuum pump and try to get fuel fully pulled threw the return line maybe my pump isnt primed adequetly.
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I honestly love having my electric pump inline, never have to worry about loosing prime.. and if you run out of fuel, it is a non-issue to get going again. Because you won't notice you are out of fuel until your pump is empty..
Throw the pump in the mix, but in the mean time try an IV feed of diesel. A funnel held up with the fuel line running to the pump, and fill it with diesel. Obviously need a helper.
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Throw the pump in the mix, but in the mean time try an IV feed of diesel. A funnel held up with the fuel line running to the pump, and fill it with diesel. Obviously need a helper.
Exactly what I was doing last night and this morning 8). Haven'tbeen home since tis morning so I'll see if it lost prime.
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When i left this morning for work there was fuel from filter to pin fuel line 12 hours later fuel line totally empty no signs of leaks though??
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i also removed the plunger from the solenoid and tried cranking.
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Does this car still have the water seperator beneath the rear seat area? If so, delete it.
Have you very closely inspected the entire fuel line running under the car?
Have you popped open the fuel tank tin plate (in the trunk) and inspected the fuel line which comes off the fuel sending unit? Sometimes, the rubber line dries out and cracks or the clamp cuts through the hose.
How about the fuel lines under the hood leading to whatever fuel filter you are employing?
I bought one of these little green Mr. Gasket $60 pumps from OReilleys last year and it did not work....then, I lost the receipt in the mean time. Report back how it works for you and I will go buy another and use the receipt to return the original!
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all lines are good the water seprator is in a dump somewhere in pa never to add air to my fuel again. Im not gonna get the mr gasket pump all signs point to garbage based on reviews I read. There is a few diesel shops in town I'm gonna check out and see what they have.
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if you added the mk1 filter check there. I would suspect anything you have done to be causing the problem. Plus the MK2 inner fuel line doesn't like to mix with the barbs.
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Run clear hose for supply and return into a separate container of clean diesel. Place the container so that the top of the fuel level in the container is above level of the pump (this will prevent fuel from siphoning out of the pump). Crank it over to see which way the fuel is flowing in the clear lines. If fuel is not moving in the clear lines or is moving backwards, then the issue is with the vane pump portion of the IP. If it is moving the correct direction keep cranking until the air is purged from the pump. If there is still no flow to the injectors with the stop solenoid plunger removed then the issue is with the low pressure control portion of the pump - accel lever to shaft orientation/control collar/lever assembly/max fuel screw setting - or the high pressure portion of the pump - plunger/head assembly.
FWIW, when I have disassembled pumps and then assembled using vaseline (recommended lube) on the moving pats, I have found that sometimes it will take a fair bit of cranking to get the fuel flowing from the delivery valves. I think it takes some rotations before the vanes work exactly right in the vane pump and then takes a little while to get the delivery valves to pass fuel even if the pump is full.
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if you added the mk1 filter check there. I would suspect anything you have done to be causing the problem. Plus the MK2 inner fuel line doesn't like to mix with the barbs.
I replaced the black stuff with poly between filter and hard lines coming from under car.
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I might just try the mr gasket pump if it breaks ill take it back and get a refund. diesel shop wants over 100 bucks for one and its 3 days out.
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haven't had any time to mess with it past few days. picked up one of these http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/solidstatepump.php?clickkey=7286
considering relocating my fuel filter back to where the water seperator used to be to save some room under hood. right after the lift pump.
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I've got it on iv I made with an 8 dollar aftermarket coolant reservoir hanging from hood above ip. I've pulled fuel thru ip with a vacuum pump a quart jar is half full of outbound fuel. I've been cranking and cranking. increased fuel screw. I'm so out of ideas. still don't think anything has come out of delivery valves.
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ip is not moving fuel when cranked. I lowered the fuel and raised the return jar and no fuel was going into it when I cranked.
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I would still install the inline electric pump, it will make your life alot easier.
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If the fuel is not moving when the engine is cranked, then the vane pump section of the injection pump is not working.
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If the fuel is not moving when the engine is cranked, then the vane pump section of the injection pump is not working.
will having the pump to help move fuel mitigate this problem?
I'm just about to give up and put the eco pump back in I don't want to bit I'm so frustrated by this. I've installed pumps before and had no issues.
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A lift pump might help. If the vanes are temporarily stuck then a lift pump will let it run and might result in the vanes moving, but while the vanes are stuck there won't be any dynamic advance and it will be a dog.
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A lift pump might help. If the vanes are temporarily stuck then a lift pump will let it run and might result in the vanes moving, but while the vanes are stuck there won't be any dynamic advance and it will be a dog.
I can only hope cuz I'm not getting a single drop of fuel at the delivery valves.
say I wanted to run an na pump from an early 80's 1.6 would it be better than running my eco pump?
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i cracked open the timing bolt and fuel came out also i hooked up the dial indicator and it shows the piston is moving. unfortunately i have cranked my battery to death so ill have to take to the parts store for a charge. im going to time my engine with the dial indicator but i have no clue how to read one of these things it is standard inches.
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0.039" for inch.
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A lift pump might help. If the vanes are temporarily stuck then a lift pump will let it run and might result in the vanes moving, but while the vanes are stuck there won't be any dynamic advance and it will be a dog.
I can only hope cuz I'm not getting a single drop of fuel at the delivery valves.
say I wanted to run an na pump from an early 80's 1.6 would it be better than running my eco pump?
the actual PUMP portion (the portion under the pump top) is almost identical between the n/a and TD..
the ECO pump is much different tho.. and not capable of nearly as much fuel..
i would say the 1.6n/a pump would do better than the eco pump..
yes, do install a lift pump, they work wonders. every VW diesel should have one.
but, dont try and use the lift pump as the MAIN fuel pump. you still need the vane pump to work in the injection pump..
like andrew said, no timing advance and it will be a DOG.
you might even try and diesel-purge your pump thats on it, or dump it full of ATF, or something.. i imagine the vanes are just stuck..
did this engine sit for a long time with a dry pump?
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sat about six months dry.
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But with vaseline on everything. Alot on the vane pump
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But with vaseline on everything. Alot on the vane pump
maybe its the vaseline keeping the vane pump from pulling fuel..
they may be stuck still
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so maybe it sitting with fuel in it will free it up? or something more viscous like atf might free it up?
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Very possible. Andrew did say it needed extended cranking to get stuff moving. I would tty an ATF soak for the hell of it.
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I got some atf and fresh battery in this morning. timed it to. .039" and now it wont turnover not even by hand it like stuck but nothing is impeding it.
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could I have an airlock that wont let it crank over?
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could I have an airlock that wont let it crank over?
starter is sticking, turn the engine backwards a rotation or 2, that should free everything up..
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I think I royally screwed myself... I acidentally turned the key with ip lock pin in that's when this problem surfaced I discovered after taking the key out it wouldn't fully turn over. I think it caused my cam timing to be off and I'm hitting a valve... :'( NOW IM CLUELESS. My ip is lined upwith the mark and my cam lobes on 1 are up and slot it aligned but the tdc mark is no longer visible on flywheel. I know for a fat everything was lined up before because I was cranking.
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I think I royally screwed myself... I acidentally turned the key with ip lock pin in that's when this problem surfaced I discovered after taking the key out it wouldn't fully turn over. I think it caused my cam timing to be off and I'm hitting a valve... :'( NOW IM CLUELESS. My ip is lined upwith the mark and my cam lobes on 1 are up and slot it aligned but the tdc mark is no longer visible on flywheel. I know for a fat everything was lined up before because I was cranking.
then the valves are sticking.. turn the motor backwards to un-bind everything..
you will likely have to put a new timing belt on it..
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yep pulled off lower belt cover crank is 90° OFF TDC. I cant sed how the *** that happened from leaving that pin in but it happened. how should I go about getting it right. is is possible I damaged anything?
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yep pulled off lower belt cover crank is 90° OFF TDC. I cant sed how the *** that happened from leaving that pin in but it happened. how should I go about getting it right. is is possible I damaged anything?
100% possibility that you could have (and probably do have) bent valves..
get a new belt, re-time it, and see if it runs..
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Ooooh.. Dang. I had this exact thing happen to me.. The crank has the least amou t of teeth therefore the least hold on the belt. The belt cant hold the torque of the starter sp it shreds teeth. If the crank turned 90 and you right now cannot turn the motor by hand.. Im Gonna say it is more than likely she is fubard.
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I loosened the cam bolt and pooped it of it instantly allowed the motor to spin free I got all the timing marks realigned. I see how that could've happenes jeremy. the tbelt has like 2k on it none of the teeth look buggered up.
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If none of the teeth look buggered how did the crank spin 90* and nothing else moved with it??
After you get it retimed ( and as should be done everytime) you should turn the motor over by hand with a wrench.. To make sure there is no binding.
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the whole situation is confusing the heck out of me haha. I can get a gates belts for 9.99 or a conti for 28.99. decisions.
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Why did you loosen the cam bolt?
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I just do that everytime I do a tbelt way easier to get belt on and off.
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Oh for sure. Take it off first and put it on last.
Get all the slack to the cam area then put the cam pulley in place. Dunzo. Also gates is top notch.
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got the belt on timed it up again. pump timing is spot on. still not pulling fuel in when cranked and i cranked it more know then i have before today. ??? flooring it.. vie turned up the fuel screw at least 1 turn. kind sorta sounds like it wants to run.
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cranked in fuel screw a total of 5 or so turns and it bottomed out. its also making a sound like a hoarse duck quacking sound wich I have heard on these engines before.
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Im gonna say pump 180 out
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i guess ill test it out. kind sketched about trying to rotate in 180 and getting it right.. if that doesn't work i guess ill put my eco pump back in and use this thing as a 300 dollar door stop. :-\
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Am I missing the part where you got fuel out of the delivery valves?
If not, there is no need to worry about 180 out yet.
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ah yes i forgot to re-check that. But since im still not sucking fuel in thru the inlet id guess no. I did swap delivery valves with the ones from my eco pump. maybe this is my issue????
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If it sounds like it wants to run the only way that can happen is IF there is fuel being delivered to the injectors.
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i guess ill test it out. kind sketched about trying to rotate in 180 and getting it right.. if that doesn't work i guess ill put my eco pump back in and use this thing as a 300 dollar door stop. :-\
you paid $300 for an as-is (not re-sealed even) pump?!
there are 2 holes for the timing pin to use.. and the pump can even be timed 180* off internally..
if you install the cam plate upside down, the whole pump is 180* out, even with the pulley on the mark.
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ah yes i forgot to re-check that. But since im still not sucking fuel in thru the inlet id guess no. I did swap delivery valves with the ones from my eco pump. maybe this is my issue????
eco delivery valves are totally different tho, are they not?
i thought you had to use the lines, and DVs to make everything line up happy?
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NO it was re sealed by jeremy.
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They did look a little different internally but Andrew said they still operate the same and swapping them would be no big deal. I had to use them because 2 of the lines on my engine weren't long enough to accomodate the td pumps shorter valves.
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JEREMY!!
whats wrong with this fine gentlemans pump?!
i know you would never put a compromised vane assembly, or pump eccentric into a pump you are selling..
think you used too much vaseline?
well, now, being that i KNOW the pump is good, you might try feeding it with a lift pump just to get it running.
you have to get it to where it will pull fuel on its own tho.. if the vane pump never works, then it never advances timing..
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I have a facet low pressure pump from napa. It cost me $45 4 years ago so im guessing its about $60 in todays dollars. Go get one. I was one of Jeremy's first customers and noticed the pump took a little bit of help from the low pressure pump until it would pump anything from 2 of the 4 delivery valves. After that issue was squared away I noticed my car was close to impossible to start. I found out he accidentally flipped the orientation of the pump internals. I had to purchase an old style pump pulley from ebay to retime my pump by flipping the new pulley 180 degrees. Now I can bet dollars to doughnuts that because jeremy built this pump after mine that your pump is NOT 180 degrees out.
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http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/solidstatepump.php?clickkey=7286 this should show up tomorrow.
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someone on another forum recommended spin the pump with an electric drill and putting an in bolt on my output temporarily.
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I have a facet low pressure pump from napa. It cost me $45 4 years ago so im guessing its about $60 in todays dollars. Go get one. I was one of Jeremy's first customers and noticed the pump took a little bit of help from the low pressure pump until it would pump anything from 2 of the 4 delivery valves. After that issue was squared away I noticed my car was close to impossible to start. I found out he accidentally flipped the orientation of the pump internals. I had to purchase an old style pump pulley from ebay to retime my pump by flipping the new pulley 180 degrees. Now I can bet dollars to doughnuts that because jeremy built this pump after mine that your pump is NOT 180 degrees out.
if his pump is 180* out, he did it, not Jeremy..
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UIf the lift pump doesn't do it, increase cranking speed via tow chain to get things moving...
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tow chain?? ah you mean like hook it up to another vehicle?
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Exactly that. If your starter cranks at 400RPM engine, that's only 200 at the pump.
Behind a tow car, you can easily get 2-3000RPM engine speed in 2nd or 3rd. That will greatly increase the vanes urge to sling out into position, and overcome many a pumping deficiency.
If you don't want it to start, just leave the pipe to injector nuts loose. You are winning when all injectors are wet with fuel.
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how many turns in from fully removed is the fuel screw set from the factory?
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how many turns in from fully removed is the fuel screw set from the factory?
its installed with it wound in clear against the stop collar..
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I pulled off the t belt again and tried using a drill to spin the pump but it didn't have the balls to turn it. I used a ratchet to spin in as as as i could as i could see the fuel level in the line move so i guess the vanes are doing something. it wasn't pulling fuel in but it ws moving nothing is still coming from outbound line or delivery valves.. I think the problem is wit the delivery valves thats the only thing that has been changed on the pump. Im giving up and putting the eco pump back in i need a car.
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so I just started loosening injector lines to swap pumps and bottom 2 delivery valves had fuel dripping from them top 2 are still dry.
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spun the pump with WOT and saw fuel physically dribbling out of bottom two delivery valves for sure. might the tops be stuck?
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Interesting.. If it has sat in ATF for this long it should be groovy in there.. but still 2 of them having fuel should have been enough to get some smoke from the tailpipe.
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its making a choking duck noise when i crank it over..
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And you are absolutely sure the valve timing is correct?
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And you are absolutely sure the valve timing is correct?
AS far as i can tell it is, Is the duck noise a bad sign?
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My bet is on a crankshaft that moved when the the belt was tensioned and the pistons hit valves.... I would double check the valve timing.
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I made sure that didn't happen when i tensioned the belt as i tensioned before tightening camshaft pulley(though i did have the mishap mentioned the other day with belt slipping). last guy that had this motor before me did it the other way around and the cam was slightly off making it run like poop esp at idle though the car was driven about 2000 miles that way then i pulled the motor. It did make this same noise when starting at times before i pulled the motor i assumed it was a lack of fuel.
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[soapbox]The crank WILL NOT move when you tighten the tensioner unless you have done the timing belt process wrong. You need to preload the belt by turning the crank CCW a little and then CW back to TDC without passing TDC so that all of the slack of the belt is in the tensioner area. If that is done, then the crank will NOT move when tensioning the belt. If that is not done, then then crank will move and the cam timing will be retarded.[/soapbox]
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[soapbox]The crank WILL NOT move when you tighten the tensioner unless you have done the timing belt process wrong. You need to preload the belt by turning the crank CCW a little and then CW back to TDC without passing TDC so that all of the slack of the belt is in the tensioner area. If that is done, then the crank will NOT move when tensioning the belt. If that is not done, then then crank will move and the cam timing will be retarded.[/soapbox]
what andrew just said, is 100% accurate..
there is a right and wrong way to set the belt on these engines..
if you set it wrong, you kill the engine..
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if valves are bent even a little bit will engine still run?
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Turn it over by hand first, don't risk it! lol
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oh no I always do the 2 rotations to check it. what I'm think is dude before me may have slighly bent the valves and it still ran wondering if it possible? I thought issue before was fueling but maybe its bent valves causing it to run poorly at idle.
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oh no I always do the 2 rotations to check it. what I'm think is dude before me may have slighly bent the valves and it still ran wondering if it possible? I thought issue before was fueling but maybe its bent valves causing it to run poorly at idle.
even valves that are out of adjustment will not seal all the way, but still allow it to run..
its completely possible to have a few slightly bent valves, but still run.
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if valves are bent even a little bit will engine still run?
Yes.
They will even straighten out a bit over time, but then one or more valves will probably drop a head into the motor.
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called up some place called diesel injection services to see if they would test my pump.. i made the mistake of telling them someone opened it up they said they wont touch it now. ::)
called location in another city 350 to bench test... :o :o
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What the hell? Clearly with all of these pumps being 20+ years old theyve been opened by someone at some point.. Idiots!
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I sort of want to dynamite this dang car!
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after much debate Im going ahead and giving up and putting my original pump back in the car.
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fresh battery and the stock pump and its running. ;D
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Did you also install a new battery?? Was the old battery really pooched??
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no I've just been rotating bateries between cars.
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Soooooo.......... you never really figured out what the problem was?