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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 08, 2012, 07:43:33 am
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Now that I've done the governor mod and loving it, what's a good EGT probe that will fit my EcoDiesel that will provide quick response? I already have the (electronic) gauge from Auber Instruments, but the probe I have from them has more mass than I'd like and may not provide the quickest response time. So I am in the market for a better probe. What is the optimal position in the exhause manifold for the probe? Any pics?
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Several members highly recommend the probe from aircraftspruce.com
Surprisingly inexpensive considering the praise it gets. I haven't tried one myself, but I think the next one I need, I will try one.
As for the location, you want to put in the manifold just before turbo, like so:
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/blocksmithwiggin/EGT%20probe%20location/IMG_2005.jpg)
There's a small flat spot on the bottom that works nicely.
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I have the auber egt gauge too and have nothing negative to say about. I have the exposed tip thermocouple and its really fast! If you let it idle down and the temps stabilize you can turn the headlights on and the load on the alternator and the slight decrease in engine speed will make the temp change, its really accurate! Here's the http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_22&products_id=69 (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_22&products_id=69)
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I ran the Gov mod in my Ecodiesel and it was fun for a little while, but my mileage dropped to around 41-42 mpg no matter how I drove it and I was only getting around 600 miles per 14-15 gallon fillup consistently for 5-6 tanks. The mileage hit and along with all the soot it was blowing just wasn't worth the extra power to me so I'm back to slow and steady Ecodiesel. It's like a completely different car again without all that fuel being dumped in. I replaced my injectors yesterday and the nozzles and heatshields had tons of carbon buildup on them, that was only about 2500 miles with the gov mod. I had a modified 8mm socket ground down and had mine completely shimmed, I put the stock spring back in and got it dialed in and I can already see those consistent 48-50 mpg tanks coming back. The governor mod wasn't for me, just wasn't worth the hit in mileage that I was spoiled with in stock form. I don't mind sacrificing power for 8-10 more MPG's, but that is just my opinion.
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I ran the Gov mod in my Ecodiesel and it was fun for a little while, but my mileage dropped to around 41-42 mpg no matter how I drove it and I was only getting around 600 miles per 14-15 gallon fillup consistently for 5-6 tanks. The mileage hit and along with all the soot it was blowing just wasn't worth the extra power to me so I'm back to slow and steady Ecodiesel. It's like a completely different car again without all that fuel being dumped in. I replaced my injectors yesterday and the nozzles and heatshields had tons of carbon buildup on them, that was only about 2500 miles with the gov mod. I had a modified 8mm socket ground down and had mine completely shimmed, I put the stock spring back in and got it dialed in and I can already see those consistent 48-50 mpg tanks coming back. The governor mod wasn't for me, just wasn't worth the hit in mileage that I was spoiled with in stock form. I don't mind sacrificing power for 8-10 more MPG's, but that is just my opinion.
you had a cat still huh? if you dont remove the cat, and increase fueling, the cat gets partially clogged from all the extra soot..
cut the cat off, and you wont loose mpg..
the governor mod SHOULD NOT degrade your mileage, if you do it right..
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the governor mod SHOULD NOT degrade your mileage, if you do it right..
Absolutely agree. You are not changing the pumps capabilities to fuel, you are only allowing it to keep fueling higher in the rpm range. So, unfortunately there was no correlation between the governor mod and your decreased mileage. There was however a relation between your newly plugged up catalytic converter and the mileage though ;).
With the governor mod, you must remember you have not altered the pump in anyway. Other then the fact that you have changed its governor, which has a sole purpose of limiting RPM simply by cutting fuel.
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so, basically, if you re-do your gov-mod, and cut off the cat, you will notice NO DROP in MPG figures..
but, with the cat in place still, and the gov-mod, its a no go.. the cat gets saturated every time you soot it up, then its just an exhaust restriction, resulting in a LARGE LOSS of economy..
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Maybe one day if I ever modify the exhaust, I will put my shim back in and see if it helps. The power increase was nice, but doing 90% highway driving like I do, I very rarely got to use the power much. I just hang out in the right (slow) lane going around 60mph all the time anyway. Getting paid per mile when driving for work, I am after the absolute best mileage possible, since they do their fuel reimbursement calculations assuming most people are getting 20-25 mpg, I'm making more than double of what the other people driving are making simply by owning a 20 yr old vehicle powered by a simple, efficient diesel engine. I brag and brag about it to all the guys commuting in their huge V8 pickups barely breaking even! Just doesn't make sense to me... 8)
On another note, I do have a true TD pump I'm prepping to go in and want to see how that behaves power/mileage wise. Probably would be the same as with the gov mod with exhaust restriction like yall think.
I'm re-sealing it now and taking a bunch of high res pictures of the process and hope to put together a nice proper pump reseal tutorial / sticky here for the forums.
An issue I see though is of course the delivery vane length and the ECOdiesel fuel lines...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/dedfrog/pic1.jpg)
I think I'm going to have to swap the vanes from the ECO pump onto this TD pump so my lines will fit, I don't want to bend / skew the lines to MAKE them fit... any problems with swapping delivery vanes?
Don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but hey it's ECOdiesel specific talk at least...
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I think the only reason other than the cat an eco could be getting worse mileage with the gov mod is the trans they used. I think it had 4.20:1 ring and pinion gear in the trans they came stock with. So if the gov isn't cutting fuel and you are reving like crazy it probably is using more.
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I think the only reason other than the cat an eco could be getting worse mileage with the gov mod is the trans they used. I think it had 4.20:1 ring and pinion gear in the trans they came stock with. So if the gov isn't cutting fuel and you are reving like crazy it probably is using more.
AVX trans came in the ecodiesel..
4.25:1 r&p
.75 5th gear..
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AVX trans came in the ecodiesel..
4.25:1 r&p
.75 5th gear..
That SUUUUUUCKS. Time for a tranny swap. An FN out of a bone yard GASSER would be a fantastic upgrade compared to that....
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I think the only reason other than the cat an eco could be getting worse mileage with the gov mod is the trans they used. I think it had 4.20:1 ring and pinion gear in the trans they came stock with. So if the gov isn't cutting fuel and you are reving like crazy it probably is using more.
I know everyone here loves to hate on the AVX, but I just don't think turning 3-400 RPM lower is worth the time and money hunting down another transmission to swap. It's like the 5th gear swaps for the TDI's, they cost like 300 bucks, 300 dollars will buy a lot of diesel and you'd have to drive a ton to recoup getting maybe .5-1 mpg (?) further. And that's just it, who really knows if it makes a measurable difference running 2600 RPM vs 2900 RPM is an ECOdiesel at 60 mph. There are a lot of variables to consider that only the Germans who engineered this stuff have answers to. I would love to pick one of the engineers brains and just ask him, "Why didn't you just put a tranny in there that turns 2000 RPM at 70 mph so I could get 70 mpg with it?", since that seems to be the way of thinking lower RPM= more MPG. He would no doubt laugh in my face. I imagine he'd say that there is a compromise of RPM, power, and fuel usage that breaks down somewhere in all the BSFC charts, thermodynamics, yadda yadda and that they built the ECOdiesel the way they did for a reason. I know the AVX is capable of 50 MPG tanks consistently for the type of driving I do, which is good enough for me. I would love to swap the 4A in since I already have it and it is 99.9% ratio comparable to the much touted 3.67/.75 combo trans, but I am just not able to at this time. If I ever do I would love to do some mileage testing to get some answers on the AVX vs 3.67/.75 mileage debate lol.
This last round of driving for work was all over flat and windy west Texas, nearly 2000 miles 95% highway the last few weeks. I did a few tanks driving my "normal" way (like a grandma) 55-60 a whole tank, got around 41-42 mpg. I then tried a few tanks with more spirited and faster going 65-70 the whole tank, mileage was still the same 41-42, very consistent. I topped up into the filler neck till I could see diesel everytime, and ran it to just below the red everytime so my methods for calculating mileage were consistent. The worse tank of the journey was the first one, driving into a 20 mph head / crosswind for about 250 miles with rain. That tank I averaged 38-39, one of the worse tanks ever recorded in the car. Wind definitely plays a factor.
Real world testing has shown going slower nets more mpg especially in stock form, but it just felt like to me with the governor mod my static fueling was just locked in to a set amount no matter how I drove. It had the power I guess to get the same mileage at higher speeds, but when I went slower it just didn't matter cause of the gov mod and max fuel screw adjustments just kept fueling too high... Another thing when I put my stock spring back in, my RPM's hanged when I rev'd it so had to back out the max fuel screw to get it acting normal. I had the max fuel screw in quite a bit perhaps was my issue instead... I remember having to turn it in quite a bit to get it running right after doing the gov mod...perhaps my shim was too extreme? I could barely get that little E clip back on with my solid socket shim on the governor.
Something else I notice too is if I run a tank without additive (grey Power Service), my coolant gauge will read just slightly lower than the middle and will barely rise to middle on a long hill pull or something. It would heat up very quickly if idled for a bit too. But if I run a tank with additive, it will be dead-on straight up and down in the middle while driving where it should be, and won't seem to get as hot while idling for extended periods. Something to do with cetane and combustion efficiency I think. I always fill up with the absolute cheapest diesel I can find, which was usually Wal-mart (Murphy's) with the extra 3¢ off if you use their gift card to buy fuel. So probably not the best quality higher cetane fuel, but with an additive it seems to run in the more sweet spot of the efficiency range.
You can swap the longer delivery valves into the other pump, but you will need to adjust the max fuel screw by a fair bit.
Thanks for this info.
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I think the only reason other than the cat an eco could be getting worse mileage with the gov mod is the trans they used. I think it had 4.20:1 ring and pinion gear in the trans they came stock with. So if the gov isn't cutting fuel and you are reving like crazy it probably is using more.
AVX trans came in the ecodiesel..
4.25:1 r&p
.75 5th gear..
That still only 2900rpms with stock wheels, at 100k/60m..
AMEN EcoTx ;).
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Also, to be completely honest? the 3.67/.75 trans is nothing to get all excited about. Probably the worst transmission Volkswagen offered to have behind a diesel engine.. IMHO. I have the ACN (3.67/.75) in my 84 right now behind my AHU M-TDI.. I pretty much can say I hate it. lol
The gears are sooo close together that I either shift 1-3-5 if I need to start in 1st, or 2-4-5 if I can start in 2nd.. I can cruise through town in 5th gear no problem at 55-60km/h (1400-1500RPM). I would have used the FN if it were a post-84 trans and had the conical washers in it.. even with the stock 1.6na I had one wheel peel issues on dry corners.
I would recommend going with the 4 speed for sure, especially the 4A. It is a very wide geared transmission so that each gear will actually have usefulness.. I have a 4A as well, but unknown mileage, and I lacked a 4spd mount at the time of the swap. I may still swap it in as the wide ratios would much better suit the TDI torque.
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regarding highway engine speed, I like the gearing because I can get the boost up when I need it. If I am under 2500rpm it is best to down shift.
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regarding highway engine speed, I like the gearing because I can get the boost up when I need it. If I am under 2500rpm it is best to down shift.
Ahh yes, optimal gearing is best determined where your engine makes its torque (ie. builds boost).. For a T3/K24 you would want a trans that is keeping that boost up a little bit, so for that you would need higher rpms and thus a lower geared transmission. However for a smaller k14 or even a k03 the highest gearing possible is best because they build boost damn near at idle.
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Several members highly recommend the probe from aircraftspruce.com
Surprisingly inexpensive considering the praise it gets. I haven't tried one myself, but I think the next one I need, I will try one.
As for the location, you want to put in the manifold just before turbo, like so:
There's a small flat spot on the bottom that works nicely.
Is this the one from Aircraftspruce? "Non welded construction, space age technolgy". Anyone know what that's about? Is it still alumel /chromel or some other metals?
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/unkprobe.php
"The model MM-111 probe (type K) is applicable to any type of aircraft exhaust gas temperature indicator that uses type K thermocouple as its electrical source. The MM-111 is designed to universally replace all chromel alumel (type K) thermocouples regardless of manufacturer or design. The Universal MM-111 probe is FAA/PMA approved.
With the Universal MM-111 probe you receive the benefits of unique, non-welded construction utilizing a new, exclusive, space-age technology. This assures you thousands of hours of trouble-free operation. The faster, almost immediate response to temperature changes results in better control of engine performance. Installation is simple and requires no welding or special tools. The MM-111 offers superior performance at a reasonable price."
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The one everyone recommends on here is the Micro-1000
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/micro1pyroprobes.php (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/micro1pyroprobes.php)
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I ran the Gov mod in my Ecodiesel and it was fun for a little while, but my mileage dropped to around 41-42 mpg no matter how I drove it and I was only getting around 600 miles per 14-15 gallon fillup consistently for 5-6 tanks. The mileage hit and along with all the soot it was blowing just wasn't worth the extra power to me so I'm back to slow and steady Ecodiesel. It's like a completely different car again without all that fuel being dumped in. I replaced my injectors yesterday and the nozzles and heatshields had tons of carbon buildup on them, that was only about 2500 miles with the gov mod. I had a modified 8mm socket ground down and had mine completely shimmed, I put the stock spring back in and got it dialed in and I can already see those consistent 48-50 mpg tanks coming back. The governor mod wasn't for me, just wasn't worth the hit in mileage that I was spoiled with in stock form. I don't mind sacrificing power for 8-10 more MPG's, but that is just my opinion.
Isn't the Ecodiesl EPA rated at 43 mpg hwy? 48-50 mpg! You are doing much better than EPA! Is it pretty flat where you are? Without the gov mod, at how many miles are you filling up? 700?
I shimmed mine with a 2.5 mm thick stainless steel nut. I had 2 nuts at first for a total of 5.5 mm, for all practical purposes, a solid shim. I had a lot of trouble getting the C clip on and decided to go with only one nut (2.5 mm) before installing it in the pump. I wonder what difference a 2.5 mm shim is compared to a solid shim as far as the fuel mapping.
Here's a pic of my 2.5 mm shimmed governor.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120404_154530.jpg)
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The one everyone recommends on here is the Micro-1000
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/micro1pyroprobes.php (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/micro1pyroprobes.php)
Thanks! Would this EP132 EGT Probe (1/8 NPT) 10-01478 $38.85 be the best choice to go with the Auber Instrument electronic EGT gauge?
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I wonder what difference a 2.5 mm shim is compared to a solid shim as far as the fuel mapping.
I have run a solid shim on a 1.6NA, 1.6TD and 1.9M-TDI. All three in the same car, all three capable of high 40's to 50+ mpg.
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I wonder what difference a 2.5 mm shim is compared to a solid shim as far as the fuel mapping.
I have run a solid shim on a 1.6NA, 1.6TD and 1.9M-TDI. All three in the same car, all three capable of high 40's to 50+ mpg.
Aren't them Canadian miles different than US miles?
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It is very flat (TX) lol and diesels usually beat EPA figures, especially after broken in and on the highway. My tanks are 90% highway, 55-60 mph so that's how I pick up those extra mpg's. You won't see me flying 80-85 like most people do since most of the speed limits are 75 mph now on the interstates here. When my dad drove this car, he would drive 75-80 and he was getting around 500 miles per tank he said. He didn't take the 5-10 minutes to fill it to the absolute top though like I do.
One of my best tanks was in September of last year, 745 miles on 14-14.5 gallons. Having a tailwind for a lot of those miles def helped too...I'm working on a 800 mile tank hopefully soon. You have to be around 500 miles for half a tank to make it though, cause that 2nd half goes a lot quicker than the first since you have more in the first half tank.
Here I was around half a tank...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/dedfrog/pic2.jpg)
And then sitting at the pump showing my last fuel receipt...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/dedfrog/image001.jpg)
Hopefully I'll start getting these tank averages back now that my car is a diesel-sipping snail again! :)
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Aren't them Canadian miles different than US miles?
Them Canuck miles be called keelomeetors b'y. LoL. I obviously converted for you because you live in Amurrrrrkah. 5L/100km = 50mpg. I averaged anywhere between 5L/100km and 5.5L/100km on all three engines with solid governors. (43mpg and 50mpg respectively.)
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Aren't them Canadian miles different than US miles?
Them Canuck miles be called keelomeetors b'y. LoL. I obviously converted for you because you live in Amurrrrrkah. 5L/100km = 50mpg. I averaged anywhere between 5L/100km and 5.5L/100km on all three engines with solid governors. (43mpg and 50mpg respectively.)
OK, so what's the difference between a solid governor and a 2.5 mm shimmed main spring? I can't see that much difference until the throttle is maxed out pedal to the medal.
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OK, so what's the difference between a solid governor and a 2.5 mm shimmed main spring? I can't see that much difference until the throttle is maxed out pedal to the medal.
Probably nothing, except I guess having more control over the fueling with your foot as opposed to the spring being able to move? If I could still maintain the same mileage from before I did the modification, then it did nothing fuel consumption wise.
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so Ive got to ask,
what this does is make it where it will go accelerate FASTER at high RPM until you hit max RPM, while without it takes a while to gain RPM the higher you are currently?
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That's awesome what you're getting on miles per tank. I can't drive that slow around here on the Merritt pkwy and I 95- it's outright dangerous because some of the crazy bastards will run you off the road! ;D I try to stay with traffic which is 65 mph.
I generally fill up at somewhere between 550 to 600 miles. I run on WVO (2 tank system) and I can't check mpg that accurately since I don't have a way to measure the fuel when I fill up (I use the stock tank for VO). But since the governor mod I think my mpg has gotten better judging by where the fuel gauge is (currently 1/4 tank) relative to number of miles (currently 500). It would normally be closer to the red mark at 500 w/o the gov mod. What I find with the gov mod is that I don't have to down shift as often and still maintain the same steady speed, and I think that is contributing to better fuel economy. I'm still on my first tank since the gov mod. I need to drive a few more tanks to better judge if I am actually getting better mpg.
It is very flat (TX) lol and diesels usually beat EPA figures, especially after broken in and on the highway. My tanks are 90% highway, 55-60 mph so that's how I pick up those extra mpg's. You won't see me flying 80-85 like most people do since most of the speed limits are 75 mph now on the interstates here. When my dad drove this car, he would drive 75-80 and he was getting around 500 miles per tank he said. He didn't take the 5-10 minutes to fill it to the absolute top though like I do.
One of my best tanks was in September of last year, 745 miles on 14-14.5 gallons. Having a tailwind for a lot of those miles def helped too...I'm working on a 800 mile tank hopefully soon. You have to be around 500 miles for half a tank to make it though, cause that 2nd half goes a lot quicker than the first since you have more in the first half tank.
Here I was around half a tank...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/dedfrog/pic2.jpg)
And then sitting at the pump showing my last fuel receipt...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/dedfrog/image001.jpg)
Hopefully I'll start getting these tank averages back now that my car is a diesel-sipping snail again! :)
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it's outright dangerous because some of the crazy bastards will run you off the road!
Here as long as you stay in the right or right-most lane you are fine. That is where the slower traffic is supposed to drive after all, while faster / passing traffic uses the left most lane.
I've never been honked at for driving 15-20 under in the slow lane, and have had cops and state troopers pass me without trouble as well. If someone has a problem with how slow I am driving they can easily go around.
If I'm on a 2 lane road with a shoulder, I will scoot over in the shoulder and let people pass when they get to me. It's just about being a courteous and friendly driver really.
I always thought it would be neat to run SVO and not have to worry about filtering / contaminants / hassle of WVO, but I haven't put much effort towards the idea.
SVO at Sam's Club is around 5-6 bucks a gallon which I reckon would be a lot cheaper buying it in bulk of course. If I could find out where to get 55 gallon drums or more at something like 1-2 dollars a gallon, I would seriously try running SVO.
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I always thought it would be neat to run SVO and not have to worry about filtering / contaminants / hassle of WVO, but I haven't put much effort towards the idea.
SVO at Sam's Club is around 5-6 bucks a gallon which I reckon would be a lot cheaper buying it in bulk of course. If I could find out where to get 55 gallon drums or more at something like 1-2 dollars a gallon, I would seriously try running SVO.
VO IS neat but filtering comes with the territory. Most people that run on WVO do not filter well enough judging from the filter life that they are getting. One possible way to find VO for $1 to $2 per gallon that does not require filtering is food grade VO that's expired.
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But since the governor mod I think my mpg has gotten better judging by where the fuel gauge is (currently 1/4 tank) relative to number of miles (currently 500). It would normally be closer to the red mark at 500 w/o the gov mod. What I find with the gov mod is that I don't have to down shift as often and still maintain the same steady speed, and I think that is contributing to better fuel economy.
I too find I can say in 5th up the mountain, and run lower temps than I was wound out in 4th before.
I almost have enough power to regear, and get my freeway RPMs back under 3300.
Also, I don't think I will ever take anyones word their oil is filtered, or doesn't need it. If it doesn't need it, it will only take a few minutes to filter anyway.
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Well I really don't think you guys can actually knock it without having done it. I have an AGS with a 3.67 and the .75 fifth. Before it was the 3.94. It was leaps and bounds better mileage wise. I did rebuild the engine, but it had a lot different characteristics just from the trans. I NEVER got close to being over 45mpg with it as the 3.94 even 100% highway. I consistantly averaged that once I got it all tuned in correctly. Even before I did have it tuned in on the highway it was good. When I went to almost canada to get my 1.9 engines it got 49.2mpg...hauling 800lbs of engine and bolt ons back in the car.
I think the secret is to get right under the peak torque with the rpm with whatever gear you are running and you will get the best mileage.
8v, I think that is just the nature of the TDI. I have the alh with the manual for it in it and can do similar. All the power is in the first 3,000 rpm and you can shift before that and still be on boost and pull to 3,000 easily. My TDI does pull above 3,000, but just not like it does off idle.
BTW, even with one of the widest trans AGS in my old jetta, I did the 1,3,5 or 2,4,5 or even sometimes down hills 2,5...my point in my post was if it is over 75% highway driving a higer gear will help you.
using scirrocco.org I found that at 70mph all other things being the same except for R&P ratios the 4.25 will turn 3298rpm and the 3.67 will turn 2848rpm = 450 rpm. That almost 500rpm *have a 2H trans and that 450rpm is the same as shifting a gear in it* is huge considering that is in the range when the stock gov. really cuts fuel. Add the .71 and you get 2612rpm and down into the territory of modded gov vs stock gov really won't make much difference. Especially if you cut another 5-10 mph then it "should" be identical to an unmodded gov.
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idk what you guys have about 3.67 gears.. i love them. its the only reason my cars get decent mileage around here.
plus, its nice having DRIVE be 4th gear.. and 5th be a nice HIGH overdrive..
when i had my VNT, i loved having 3.67 gears..
ACN is my hands-down favorite 020 trans..
i have one in my TD jetta, and my GTI tow-mobile..
5th gear is too high with 1k #'s or more on the trailer..
i went from an AUG trans, to my ACN.. and mileage definitely improved with the ACN..
i used to have enough power to make use of an ACN trans tho.. even my GTI tho, does amazingly well with the ACN still in there.
only way i would even consider 3.94 gears, is with a .71 5th, or something even higher..
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I do not hate on the ACN because of the 3.67 gears, I hate on it because the gears are too close. A close ratio box is really only awesome behind a motor that can wind the rpms up. I'd really rather prefer a 3500rpm drop between gears for my style of driving.
Let me put it this way, I can be in 5th gear by 35mph.. shifting normally, those gears are far too close for me!
Like I said, if my FN weren't pre-84 and had the conical washers in the trans I'd run it every day over the ACN.
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Getting back on topic, I ordered the Auber Instr EGT probe with exposed tip junction for fastest response
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_22&products_id=69&zenid=bf6396eb3377f9741e39db4b17dfc7d5
(http://www.auberins.com/images/TC-KEGT-NPTa.jpg)
instead of the Aircraftspruce Micro 1000
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/micro1pyroprobes.php
(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/3probes.jpg)
mainly because of the note on Aircraftspruce's site:
"These are "K" type grounded probes, not for use on digital gauges. For use with Micro-1000 gauges."
My Auber Instr gauge is a digital type..
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I do not hate on the ACN because of the 3.67 gears, I hate on it because the gears are too close. A close ratio box is really only awesome behind a motor that can wind the rpms up. I'd really rather prefer a 3500rpm drop between gears for my style of driving.
Let me put it this way, I can be in 5th gear by 35mph.. shifting normally, those gears are far too close for me!
Like I said, if my FN weren't pre-84 and had the conical washers in the trans I'd run it every day over the ACN.
dude, an ACN is the WIDEST GEAR SPREAD you could get in a stock 020.. you cant get a wider ratio VW trans unless you go with custom gears..
the FN still cruises at a higher RPM then the ACN does..
do you have the ACN box confused with one of the CLOSE RATIO boxes like the AGB/2Y/9A/AUG trannies?
have you ever driven a diesel w/ an AUG box? there fun, but they also turn ~3200 revs @ 60..
ever driven an ACN? they have a 100% different gear split. they turn 2400 revs @ 60..
why do you think that the ACN boxes are close ratio? they arent even close..
the ACN will turn LESS rpms cruising than your old FN would.. what do you have against the ACN, it has a WIDER GEAR SPLIT than your FN does.. i dont get it dude..
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ever driven an ACN? they have a 100% different gear split. they turn 2400 revs @ 60..
Yes, I currently daily an ACN transmission, it feels really close
why do you think that the ACN boxes are close ratio? they arent even close..
I feel this because each shift only drops a few hundred rpms
the ACN will turn LESS rpms cruising than your old FN would.. what do you have against the ACN, it has a WIDER GEAR SPLIT than your FN does.. i dont get it dude..
Dunno man, the FN felt way wider than the ACN. Like this is real world experience, I have also driven an actual close ratio box on a diesel.. the AWY which is identical to the 4K and 2H. I have kept the AWY transmission for the day I build a fire breather of an mk2 gas engine :) I have also kept my 4K close ratio for the same thing but in an mk1 lol.
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ever driven an ACN? they have a 100% different gear split. they turn 2400 revs @ 60..
Yes, I currently daily an ACN transmission, it feels really close
why do you think that the ACN boxes are close ratio? they arent even close..
I feel this because each shift only drops a few hundred rpms
the ACN will turn LESS rpms cruising than your old FN would.. what do you have against the ACN, it has a WIDER GEAR SPLIT than your FN does.. i dont get it dude..
Dunno man, the FN felt way wider than the ACN. Like this is real world experience, I have also driven an actual close ratio box on a diesel.. the AWY which is identical to the 4K and 2H. I have kept the AWY transmission for the day I build a fire breather of an mk2 gas engine :) I have also kept my 4K close ratio for the same thing but in an mk1 lol.
OK, no more arguing on gear ratios!
Found this on brokevw's site: http://www.brokevw.com/020ratios.html
(http://www.brokevw.com/020chart.jpg)
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ever driven an ACN? they have a 100% different gear split. they turn 2400 revs @ 60..
Yes, I currently daily an ACN transmission, it feels really close
why do you think that the ACN boxes are close ratio? they arent even close..
I feel this because each shift only drops a few hundred rpms
the ACN will turn LESS rpms cruising than your old FN would.. what do you have against the ACN, it has a WIDER GEAR SPLIT than your FN does.. i dont get it dude..
Dunno man, the FN felt way wider than the ACN. Like this is real world experience, I have also driven an actual close ratio box on a diesel.. the AWY which is identical to the 4K and 2H. I have kept the AWY transmission for the day I build a fire breather of an mk2 gas engine :) I have also kept my 4K close ratio for the same thing but in an mk1 lol.
FN has a 2.9564:1 ratio when its in 5th gear.. (3.89x.76=2.9564)
ACN has a 2.7525:1 ratio when its in 5th gear.. (3.67x.75=2.7525)
the ACN is longer geared yo. and yea, when you shift at 1200 revs, the gears are SHORT. there gonna be short in any trans when your shifting that low..
and if you had a trans with a 3500rpm gear split, like you were talking about, that would mean you gotta rev to 4k in every gear, just to drop down to 500 rpm and be lugging the guts out of your engine..
that makes no sense to me...
im going to say it again.. out of all the stock ratio boxes, the ACN group of boxes (all boxes with the same ratios as the ACN) is the TALLEST GEARED BOXES YOU CAN GET FROM VW..
i just did the math, its up there ^^ numbers dont lie..
the only trans with WIDER gears is the AAZ trannies, and they are just BARELY longer.. just because of a SLIGHTLY taller 3rd and 4th gear.. so thats just going to make the jump from 4th to 5th less..
i think the gear split is really good on the ACN. its over 500 rpm drop with every shift, then about 750 drop into 5th..
the gear split on my AUG is like 2-300 rpm drop in every gear, even 5th..
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Jeremy, if your ACN is too close feeling, then there is a GREAT possibility that someone has rebuilt it in the past, and its just an ACN case with a close ratio gear set..
if it turns 2400 revs @ 100km/h, then its got 3.67s with a .75 5th gear, and IS an acn..
and like i been saying, you dont get any better than that without .71 5th gear.. and swapping from a .75 to .71 is pointless, you said it yourself..
so, without building a 100% custom transmixer, you are stuck with the ACN as the TALLEST VW 020 around..
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on a site it lists a 6g trans code with a lower ring and pinion and the .71 fifth like a 3.65 R&P
site shows 2856 rpm at 70mph for the acn/asf like I am running and a 2689 rpm at 70 for the 6g code less then a 200rpm drop at 70mph
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http://www.scirocco.org/gears/
that site too. I haven't found the 6g trans anywhere for 020??? What is it?
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http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2422651-6G-tranny-please
russian 83 84 85 scirocco?
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so guys who has an ACN collecting dust? ;D
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so guys who has an ACN collecting dust? ;D
they are COMMON trannies, basically every econo-box (base model, not GL, or GLI) golf or jetta from 85, 86, and 87 will have this trans..
i have 2 of them, thats how much i love these trannies!
whenever i come across an ACN, and i can afford it, i buy it.. dont even need it most of the time, but usually i know someone else who could use one..
there IS ONE in a car in St. Johns pick n pull that looked to be in decent shape.. $150 is what they charge for trannies i think.. maybe you have wrecking yards down closer to you tho also..
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My 89 golf has the ASF, its a gas GL, same trans as the ACN I believe, 3.67 and .75 are final and fifth
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got a handle on an asf for 200. do they have the green seals?
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they should have the new seals, I thought the green sleeves were to modify the old to the new,
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Several members highly recommend the probe from aircraftspruce.com
Surprisingly inexpensive considering the praise it gets. I haven't tried one myself, but I think the next one I need, I will try one.
As for the location, you want to put in the manifold just before turbo, like so:
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/blocksmithwiggin/EGT%20probe%20location/IMG_2005.jpg)
There's a small flat spot on the bottom that works nicely.
My EGT probe from Auber Instr is due to arrive today or tomorrow. Do you know if I there is enough access to drill the bottom of the exhaust manifold with the manifold/ turbo in place on an Ecodiesel? The bolts on the turbo are really rusted and difficult to access and I would not even attempt pulling the turbo. I haven't crawled under the car to have a look yet.
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I imagine you can drill it out in the car, sure. If I remember correctly there should be enough room to stick a drill between the downpipe and oil drain line, and of course the axle (though you may have to remove the axle, I really dunno for sure). I would be more worried about the tapping / welding. I welded a special hollow bolt on for mine, which I suppose could be done without removing the mani, but if you're going to tap it manually, I would be worried about clearance of the tap handle around the downpipe and oil drain line, and keeping it all straight. Using a drill to tap shouldn't be an issue, if you got it drilled in the first place.
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I imagine you can drill it out in the car, sure. If I remember correctly there should be enough room to stick a drill between the downpipe and oil drain line, and of course the axle (though you may have to remove the axle, I really dunno for sure). I would be more worried about the tapping / welding. I welded a special hollow bolt on for mine, which I suppose could be done without removing the mani, but if you're going to tap it manually, I would be worried about clearance of the tap handle around the downpipe and oil drain line, and keeping it all straight. Using a drill to tap shouldn't be an issue, if you got it drilled in the first place.
I crawled under and took a look. If the axle is removed , there would be room to get a drill in there. What do you think is less work? Pulling the axle (have not done it before) and drill and tap from below? or pull inlet manifold and turbo/ exhaust manifold and drill and tap on the bench? I have done a head gasket job last summer so should not have any rusted nuts and bolts issues. Should have drilled ad tapped it when the head was off but I was in a rush to get the job done and forgot about it.
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I imagine you can drill it out in the car, sure. If I remember correctly there should be enough room to stick a drill between the downpipe and oil drain line, and of course the axle (though you may have to remove the axle, I really dunno for sure). I would be more worried about the tapping / welding. I welded a special hollow bolt on for mine, which I suppose could be done without removing the mani, but if you're going to tap it manually, I would be worried about clearance of the tap handle around the downpipe and oil drain line, and keeping it all straight. Using a drill to tap shouldn't be an issue, if you got it drilled in the first place.
I crawled under and took a look. If the axle is removed , there would be room to get a drill in there. What do you think is less work? Pulling the axle (have not done it before) and drill and tap from below? or pull inlet manifold and turbo/ exhaust manifold and drill and tap on the bench? I have done a head gasket job last summer so should not have any rusted nuts and bolts issues. Should have drilled ad tapped it when the head was off but I was in a rush to get the job done and forgot about it.
pass axle is CAKE to remove. dont even have to separate the ball joint from the a-arm.. just comes out..
BE 100% sure to torque the BIG AXLE NUT to ~190 ft lbs..
if you dont torque the nut enough, or torque it too tight, it will mess up your wheel bearing.
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id pull the axle. GO to napa and get the 12 point searated bit to remove the bolts it 5 bucks. a 30mm on the axle nut some blaster on the spline a soft hammer and it slides right out. voila space to drill.
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bit is 8mm XZN triple square (double hex)
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yea forgot to put 8mm. but napa calls it a serated bit.
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on the td engine I'm freshing up on the engine stand right now I want to drill and tap it while its easy and just put a bolt in it until I have the extra money for the guage. what size tap should I use?
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on the td engine I'm freshing up on the engine stand right now I want to drill and tap it while its easy and just put a bolt in it until I have the extra money for the guage. what size tap should I use?
i wouldnt tap it till you know what size it needs to be..
not all pyro probes have the same size standard fitting..
so, to be safe, and avoid issues, just wait to drill, or buy your probe, and install it as the plug for the hole. you dont have to hook it up, leave the gauge wires un hooked, tucked safely out of the way..
the probe is cheap. the gauge is the spendy part.
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aircraft spruce micro 1000 all the way
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aircraft spruce micro 1000 all the way
If you get the micro 1000 EP132 EGT Probe, it is 1/8 NPT, same as my Auber Instr exposed junction fast response probe. The 1/8 NPT is for a compression fitting which allows adjusting the depth of the probe.
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pass axle is CAKE to remove. dont even have to separate the ball joint from the a-arm.. just comes out..
BE 100% sure to torque the BIG AXLE NUT to ~190 ft lbs..
if you dont torque the nut enough, or torque it too tight, it will mess up your wheel bearing.
Have to remove the pinch bolt on the ball joint to separate it from the wheel bearing knuckle? Is the ball joint shaft splined? Do I need to mark it so it goes back together the same?
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pass axle is CAKE to remove. dont even have to separate the ball joint from the a-arm.. just comes out..
BE 100% sure to torque the BIG AXLE NUT to ~190 ft lbs..
if you dont torque the nut enough, or torque it too tight, it will mess up your wheel bearing.
Have to remove the pinch bolt on the ball joint to separate it from the wheel bearing knuckle? Is the ball joint shaft splined? Do I need to mark it so it goes back together the same?
loosen the axle nut, and loosen the 6 CV bolts. push CV joint up out of cup, towards turbo, pull axle out of hub, drop hub end out, pull whole axle away from car..
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Thanks ROR!
Got it drilled and tapped! As it turned out, there was not enough room to get my cordless drill in there and get a straight shot, and had to resort to making an extension to the 11/32 jobber drill bit to make it long enough.
Here's some pics of the result and tools used, one of which was a small chunk of magnet taped to the end of windshield wiper s.s. backing to fish out metal chips. I used grease when I drilled and tapped but there was still a bit of chips in there.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120419_185545.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120419_184913.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120419_183524.jpg)
pass axle is CAKE to remove. dont even have to separate the ball joint from the a-arm.. just comes out..
BE 100% sure to torque the BIG AXLE NUT to ~190 ft lbs..
if you dont torque the nut enough, or torque it too tight, it will mess up your wheel bearing.
Have to remove the pinch bolt on the ball joint to separate it from the wheel bearing knuckle? Is the ball joint shaft splined? Do I need to mark it so it goes back together the same?
loosen the axle nut, and loosen the 6 CV bolts. push CV joint up out of cup, towards turbo, pull axle out of hub, drop hub end out, pull whole axle away from car..
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those metal chips scare me, lol. I already purchased my el cheapo ebay EGT probe and gauge. I will install it on my NA exhaust OFF the car, and I will install it on any turbo exhaust I get before installing it on the car
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those chips scare me also, so I went in there and fished around a few more times to get more chips out till it's all gone.
I finished the install and went for a test drive. works great, instant response! real happy with the results.
took a video, 64 megabytes. will upload later when I get a wifi connection.
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those metal chips scare me, lol. I already purchased my el cheapo ebay EGT probe and gauge. I will install it on my NA exhaust OFF the car, and I will install it on any turbo exhaust I get before installing it on the car
so, start the engine, the only way they can go, is thru the turbine, witch is harmless, its not going to even be spinning when that first exhaust valve opens up and lets a puff of exhaust go thru the manifold.. either that, or the metal is going to go back out the hole as soon as the engine fires.
so, if your worried about it, drill it with the engine running, then the exhaust PUSHES the chips back out of the hole, they never actually make it into the manifold to go thru the turbine..
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Here's the vid! Sorry for the moving cam, it's mounted on the steering wheel. I was starting from a standstill getting on an expressway on-ramp and went through all 5 gears. You can see the boost gauge on the right and the EGT rises and falls in accord to the boost gauge. The last shift to 5th I stomped on the pedal (got smoke) and the EGT went up to 1243F and boost was at 10 psi, the max it will go.
Should I adjust the wastegate for more boost? Add a MBC?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDg9Kx-CqyI&feature=youtu.be
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I've read many places not to mess with the wastegate to just add an mbc.
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I've read many places not to mess with the wastegate to just add an mbc.
DONT FU** WITH THE WASTEGATE!!!
buy/build a boost controller...
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I've read many places not to mess with the wastegate to just add an mbc.
Do you know why?
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vid looks cool I hope that my $30 ebay setup works as well. whats the blue light? come on at a certain temp?
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vid looks cool I hope that my $30 ebay setup works as well. whats the blue light? come on at a certain temp?
Blue light is an alarm set at around 900F. It's programmable and I will set it higher and also hook up a buzzer if possible.
Picked up an ACN with 138K on it today.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120423_155451.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120423_155727.jpg)
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I put on about 350 miles since the EGT gauge install. Going up to the Catskills, the Palisades interstate parkway and 9W has a lot of windy hills, a beautiful drive! EGTs were anywhere from 250 to 1100F depending if I am going downhill or up, how steep and long the hill is. If I gun it, I can get it above 1250. One interesting thing was that on a downhill stretch, EGT is higher if I put the engine in neutral (400F) than if I coast in 5th gear with my foot off the pedal (250F). Could that be due to more cold air intake due to higher engine RPM coasting in 5th vs idling?
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The pump quits pumping when you let off in gear over certain RPM for sure around 3,000 might be even lower. Even lower rpm it will be less fuel than if you were accelerating at the same rpm or holding steady, if it isn't completely shut down already. At idle it still has to feed the engine to keep it running, so with that fuel still coming it doesn't cool as fast and should be less air moving also as less rpm.