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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: BillyWillicker on January 06, 2012, 09:40:01 pm
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Hi there, I got a few questions, maybe a new idea to share too!
I noticed that my 1.6l has provisions on the block and the IM shaft to be able to mount and run a mechanical diaphragm pump that was fitted to carb'd gasser engines. I have seen many other diesels fitted with both the block mounted fuel pump and injection pumps, the ford 7.3l idi, and the GM 6.5 idi. I am thinking of putting one on my engine once it is complete and in-car. I think this could be "the" idea for a lift pump for us VW dieselers instead of an electric lift pump. It should in theory be able to prime the IP faster and keep it "in fuel" better and not effect advance/promote leaks like a higher pressure electric. Let me know what you guys think and if it will fit with everything mounted, I haven't got one of those pumps to test fit yet.
Also as I am rebuilding my 1.6l I am replacing the core plugs in the block. I have removed the coolant plugs and the IM shaft end plug as I know I can get those no problem. The 2 smaller ones at the ends of the main oil gallery I would like to replace too, but don't know if I can get replacements. When I was working at the engine rebuilder's we replaced every single plug on every rebuild, on the racer engines we fitted pipe threaded plugs in the oil gallery's. I know I cant do that with this engine but what I am asking is, does anyone here replace them on these engines and if so where to get new ones that size?
Thanks for any input guys.
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Good idea on the pump. I'm sure the plugs are available. Are they the 14mm ones? If so, they're part number N0119074 and are $0.40 ea. at the dealer.
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They may be 14mm, actually. I'll pull them and measure now that i'm sure they're available. Thanks much man!
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Yep. 14mm, thanks a bunch! Any other thoughts on that pump? I thought it would be all win if it fits in there.
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You're welcome. Between vagcat.com and genuineaudiparts.com, you can pretty much find the part numbers and prices on anything.
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You're welcome. Between vagcat.com and genuineaudiparts.com, you can pretty much find the part numbers and prices on anything.
Thank you for those links! It's great to be able to call the dealer with a part number, instead of having to describe what you're looking for.
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electric lift pumps are superior..
run out of fuel/prime the pump, just turn the key on for about 30 seconds, then fire up your engine..
no need to sit there and crank and crank and crank to get it to pull fuel..
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Don't the gasoline engine intermediate shafts turn in the opposite direction of the diesel ones ???
If so, then the mechanical fuel pump would be running in reverse too.
There may be fuel compatability issues from running diesel fuel in the gasoline fuel pumps.
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electric lift pumps are superior..
run out of fuel/prime the pump, just turn the key on for about 30 seconds, then fire up your engine..
no need to sit there and crank and crank and crank to get it to pull fuel..
One neat aspect of the mechanical pump is that when the engine isn't running, the pump isn't running. So no special circuitry/relay needed to ensure that it isn't a fire hazzard in case of an accident, and no danger of running the battery low if accidentally left on.
Don't the gasoline engine intermediate shafts turn in the opposite direction of the diesel ones
If so, then the mechanical fuel pump would be running in reverse too.
I think he's referring to the fuel pump that sits in the hole that is normally blocked off by a plate on the diesels. It runs off a lobe on the intermmediate shaft.
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Don't the gasoline engine intermediate shafts turn in the opposite direction of the diesel ones ???
If so, then the mechanical fuel pump would be running in reverse too.
There may be fuel compatability issues from running diesel fuel in the gasoline fuel pumps.
? ;D
EDIT Oops, been covered :-[
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Seems to me we kicked this mechanical versus electric pump question around a while back. Time to try that search function. Doesn't the vac pump go in that port where he is talking the fuel pump would go? Time to lift the hood and do some tweaking.
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No the fuel pump goes in the spot where there is a block off plate on the front of our blocks. It would still work as the mech fuel pumps just have to have the lever move up and down to pump fuel.
Zombie appocolipse less electircal stuff maybe the mech pump wins??? EMP, nuclear blast mech would win also. Other than that more adjustablity with electrical.
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electric lift pumps are superior..
run out of fuel/prime the pump, just turn the key on for about 30 seconds, then fire up your engine..
no need to sit there and crank and crank and crank to get it to pull fuel..
One neat aspect of the mechanical pump is that when the engine isn't running, the pump isn't running. So no special circuitry/relay needed to ensure that it isn't a fire hazzard in case of an accident, and no danger of running the battery low if accidentally left on.
Don't the gasoline engine intermediate shafts turn in the opposite direction of the diesel ones
If so, then the mechanical fuel pump would be running in reverse too.
I think he's referring to the fuel pump that sits in the hole that is normally blocked off by a plate on the diesels. It runs off a lobe on the intermmediate shaft.
if your car was originally a gasser like mine, then you dont have to worry about any extra wiring, because its already there!
turn the key on, and the fuel pump comes on along with exciting the fuel stop solenoid, turn the key off, the pump goes off.
if you do it right, there should be no hazards to running an electric lift pump.. it can be done safely. ever heard of these things called fuses? they protect you form electrical shorts, and that prevents fires.
if you add an electric lift pump, i would make it operate from the key, that way it cant accidently be left on.. unless you left the car running, and it ran out of diesel..
besides, they dont even make a diesel rated mechanical pump for these engines anymore.. they just got gasoline rated ones, and even those are probably hard as hell to find..
im still more partial to an electric lift pump. you dont have to crank and crank to prime the pump, you simply let the lift pump fill the injection pump, then fire up the car. its that easy.
for my jetta conversion, i just used a fan relay to power the existing low pressure pump. it comes on with the key, and goes off with the key..
so, yea, if you are dumb enough to wire up an electric lift pump so it can be left on accidentally, or cause hazards, then you dont need a lift pump. all my lift pumps have been completely safe, and not hazardous at all..
for real world cars, i prefer the electric pump.
i mean come on guys, there is NEVER going to be a zombie apocalypse.. not ever. probably never going to have to worry about nukes or EMPs too.. we are the military super power of the world.. we would have the offending country vaporized before there nuclear missles left their own air space..
real world situation, the electric pump is better.
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I was really just curious about the pump because I've seen it on many other makes of diesel fueled vehicles and wondered why not? I do agree with ROR on the electric pump for priming without cranking, I just figured things could/would be more reliable and maybe cause less wear in the injection pump with the diaphragm pump added.
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"Walbro FRB-11 Costs about $100, but lasts just about forever and only pumps as much as is being consumed. Its actually supposed to be used for reffer units." -jackbombay
from a thread on turbobricks.com
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"Walbro FRB-11 Costs about $100, but lasts just about forever and only pumps as much as is being consumed. Its actually supposed to be used for reffer units." -jackbombay
from a thread on turbobricks.com
That's the pump I have here.
Supposed to kick on by itself, it's diesel/bio ready and affordable.
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ever heard of these things called fuses?
R.O.R., I hope that wasn't directed at me. It's very condescending. I think everyone here knows what a fuse is, and what it's for.
The fires I was talking about preventing had nothing to do with fuses, etc. It had to do with the idea that you could have gotten into a crash and busted some fuel lines, but since the key is still turned on, and the pump still running, it could potentially feed fuel to a fire.
The fuel pump relay in a CIS-equipped car depends on a signal from a source such as the coil, alternator, etc., to determine if the engine is still running. Without that signal, the relay turns the fuel pump off after a few seconds. This is what would be necessary to safely install an electric fuel pump.
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ever heard of these things called fuses?
R.O.R., I hope that wasn't directed at me. It's very condescending. I think everyone here knows what a fuse is, and what it's for.
The fires I was talking about preventing had nothing to do with fuses, etc. It had to do with the idea that you could have gotten into a crash and busted some fuel lines, but since the key is still turned on, and the pump still running, it could potentially feed fuel to a fire.
The fuel pump relay in a CIS-equipped car depends on a signal from a source such as the coil, alternator, etc., to determine if the engine is still running. Without that signal, the relay turns the fuel pump off after a few seconds. This is what would be necessary to safely install an electric fuel pump.
chill.. i was being sarcastic.. no need to explain yourself, i knew exactly what you meant.. i was just in a smart@$$ mood when i posted that. didnt mean to offend.
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rabbid is right about the relay, on my old 5000 wagon I had the fuel pump hard wired. I had my dog riding with me and he jumped into the ignition switch and turned it off while going down the road. After a few seconds of the car coasting with the fuel still running I flicked the switch back on, car started back up and all the fuel in the exhaust caught fire, like spontaneously! Made a mess of the $20 muffler I had on it!!