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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Fredrikkk on November 28, 2011, 12:57:40 pm
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Well, the oil seals on my K24 have blown and it's slowly leaking oil into the exhaust. I have been searching for VNT turbos, and I was thinking maybe VNT 17 would be a good size. I'm wondering if I can run that without having to hook up the vane control system to have some sort of nice middle ground. Or how about a VNT 20, how early/late does that spool up to 20 psi?
Thanks!
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I have a VNT17 on my rabbit. I played with the vane position lever until I got it to where it maxes out at about 18psi. Boost comes on pretty quickly, obviously not as good as if you had a vane control but I am very happy with it. The more fuel you throw at it, the quicker it will spool and the more boost it will build. Just adjust your fuel/vane position until you are happy. I love my vnt!
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I have a VNT17 on my rabbit. I played with the vane position lever until I got it to where it maxes out at about 18psi. Boost comes on pretty quickly, obviously not as good as if you had a vane control but I am very happy with it. The more fuel you throw at it, the quicker it will spool and the more boost it will build. Just adjust your fuel/vane position until you are happy. I love my vnt!
GT1749VNT? (newer VNT15)
or a real VNT17 off a AFN engine?
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I have a VNT17 on my rabbit. I played with the vane position lever until I got it to where it maxes out at about 18psi. Boost comes on pretty quickly, obviously not as good as if you had a vane control but I am very happy with it. The more fuel you throw at it, the quicker it will spool and the more boost it will build. Just adjust your fuel/vane position until you are happy. I love my vnt!
GT1749VNT? (newer VNT15)
or a real VNT17 off a AFN engine?
The "real" VNT17 as you are referring to is the GT1749VA from the PD130 engines, or even the GT1749VB from the PD150. The AFN has a GT1749V which is way smaller, called the VNT15.
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I have a VNT17 on my rabbit. I played with the vane position lever until I got it to where it maxes out at about 18psi. Boost comes on pretty quickly, obviously not as good as if you had a vane control but I am very happy with it. The more fuel you throw at it, the quicker it will spool and the more boost it will build. Just adjust your fuel/vane position until you are happy. I love my vnt!
Oh that sounds awesome!
And I guess I can get a VNT from a longitudinal engine too right? I have read a little, but as I've understood I can use a longitudinal VNT which won't interfere with the engine mount.
Correct?
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if you're not going to hook up the vanes then why go vnt. theres a zillion small turbos u can get off of other cars, even the k03 off mk3 tdis would be a nice little turbo on a 1.6 and its nearly a direct bolt on.
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if you're not going to hook up the vanes then why go vnt. theres a zillion small turbos u can get off of other cars, even the k03 off mk3 tdis would be a nice little turbo on a 1.6 and its nearly a direct bolt on.
Well honestly, as far as I've understood, you can get a nice balance between fast spool and high boost. With a K14 that doesn't happen, and with a K03 it definitely won't happen.
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If you are not going to control the vanes a wastegate turbo will always be a better option. What are your power goals, what modifications are you doing to the pump, max rpm limit?
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Well, before the seals blew, the car was fast enough, only limited by the fact that I didn't have the gov mod. I guess if there is no gain to be had if I don't add VNT control then I might as well just rebuild the K24 that's on there now!
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If you're looking for boost to build fairly low 1600-1800 and by 2500 at full boost, I don't know too many turbos that will do that and still allow you to build up to 18-20 psi. My .02$ - vnt is the only way to go. Just don't run a vnt 15 over 18-20 psi like I did. I think the 17 is a better option if you're buying new.
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If you're looking for boost to build fairly low 1600-1800 and by 2500 at full boost, I don't know too many turbos that will do that and still allow you to build up to 18-20 psi. My .02$ - vnt is the only way to go. Just don't run a vnt 15 over 18-20 psi like I did. I think the 17 is a better option if you're buying new.
yup, VNT..
mine boosts @ 1500rpms
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If you're looking for boost to build fairly low 1600-1800 and by 2500 at full boost, I don't know too many turbos that will do that and still allow you to build up to 18-20 psi. My .02$ - vnt is the only way to go. Just don't run a vnt 15 over 18-20 psi like I did. I think the 17 is a better option if you're buying new.
yup, VNT..
mine boosts @ 1500rpms
How are your vanes controlled though?
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GT1749VNT? (newer VNT15)
or a real VNT17 off a AFN engine?
Im running a GT1749VA off a PD130 as Alcaid mentioned. I am using the exhaust mani off an AFN though.
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If you're looking for boost to build fairly low 1600-1800 and by 2500 at full boost, I don't know too many turbos that will do that and still allow you to build up to 18-20 psi. My .02$ - vnt is the only way to go. Just don't run a vnt 15 over 18-20 psi like I did. I think the 17 is a better option if you're buying new.
yup, VNT..
mine boosts @ 1500rpms
How are your vanes controlled though?
they arent..
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So the vanes stay in the position you set them in? I'm getting more and more intrigued by this idea :D
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So the vanes stay in the position you set them in? I'm getting more and more intrigued by this idea :D
I cant speak for ROR, I believe his are all the way open. I couldnt make much boost at all with mine all the way open. On mine, I have a turnbuckle hooked to my vane lever so I can adjust it by un-doing a nut and screwing a bolt in or out and then tightening the nut back up. I would say mine are roughly half way closed or less. I'm doing the gov mod this weekend so I may need to adjust it again but the turnbuckle makes it pretty easy.
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non working vnt is like having a non vnt turbo.
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non working vnt is like having a non vnt turbo.
Like a non-vnt turbo without a wastegate actually...
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But then how else can I get a turbo that spools up fast and boost high, AND that lasts longer than a K14?
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But then how else can I get a turbo that spools up fast and boost high, AND that lasts longer than a K14?
The K14 last forever if treated correctly, 20 years++ :)
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But then how else can I get a turbo that spools up fast and boost high, AND that lasts longer than a K14?
The K14 last forever if treated correctly, 20 years++ :)
Mine lasted six months at 1 bar ;)
Oh well, I have until summer anyways to think it through. I'll probably just end up rebuilding the K24.
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I ran a K14 for 4 years on 1.1bar, still going strong when i sold it with 260k km on it. Same story with several others. It's when you run them at higher boost than that they wear out faster.
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OR, there are several ways on this site where you can control the vanes. On mine I have a cable hooked to the throttle that will close the vanes the more you step on the throttle. However there is a pivot that one end is hooked onto the vane control and the other the cable. (pivot point is centered between these two) There is a second pivot point that is controlled by the boost can.(end of this arm is the pivot of the above control) Below the set boost (with a boost controller to the boost can) the vanes will be closed by the throttle. When boost hits the set point the pivot is moved by the boost can and the vanes in the vnt open. In my setup boost drops slightly at this point as the vanes are mostly open at this point.
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So the vanes stay in the position you set them in? I'm getting more and more intrigued by this idea :D
my vanes are what most people would call "seized"
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i liked the k24 when i had it, it spooled up plenty fast imo and really pulled hard, the only thing i don't like about it is the waste gate design which sucks and is almost guaranteed to seize up at some point, but this seems be a problem for many kkk turbos. as i remember i generally had 20-25psi before 3500 depending on the gear. my dads mk2 has the t3, its hard to compare since its in a different car and he doesn't even have the fuel turned up which dramatically effects spool time, but the t3 definitely pulls harder at higher rpms but seems to spool more slowly, which is easily attributed to the larger turbine housing k24= .30 a/r t3=.36a/r. when you get into the garrett vnt turbos, everything is different, the oe 1.6td stuff is designed in the 70s-early 80s at best, and new vnt stuff is from the 90s, huge difference in technology, the vnt compressor maps generally have a peak efficiency around 78%, and the old 1.6td stuff is 72% maybe? they also flow nearly the same amount with smaller lighter wheels and shafts, even with out the vnt and a standard turbine housing the gt series stuff is an upgrade on spool time. just depends how much u wanna spend and how much work u wanna do.
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i liked the k24 when i had it, it spooled up plenty fast imo and really pulled hard, the only thing i don't like about it is the waste gate design which sucks and is almost guaranteed to seize up at some point, but this seems be a problem for many kkk turbos. as i remember i generally had 20-25psi before 3500 depending on the gear. my dads mk2 has the t3, its hard to compare since its in a different car and he doesn't even have the fuel turned up which dramatically effects spool time, but the t3 definitely pulls harder at higher rpms but seems to spool more slowly, which is easily attributed to the larger turbine housing k24= .30 a/r t3=.36a/r. when you get into the garrett vnt turbos, everything is different, the oe 1.6td stuff is designed in the 70s-early 80s at best, and new vnt stuff is from the 90s, huge difference in technology, the vnt compressor maps generally have a peak efficiency around 78%, and the old 1.6td stuff is 72% maybe? they also flow nearly the same amount with smaller lighter wheels and shafts, even with out the vnt and a standard turbine housing the gt series stuff is an upgrade on spool time. just depends how much u wanna spend and how much work u wanna do.
i see boost by 1500rpms, and i see full boost by 3000, maybe a little under..
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I don't think I could ever fab something up to control the vanes.
I really like the K24 when the boost comes on.. I don't have that much fuel as it smokes enough already when not on boost. I have it maxing out at around 1.3 bar right now, and that pulls nicely. It is of course limited by the governor...
For me, being a student now and on a budget, a rebuild of the K24 would be the best thing to do.
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I don't think I could ever fab something up to control the vanes.
I really like the K24 when the boost comes on.. I don't have that much fuel as it smokes enough already when not on boost. I have it maxing out at around 1.3 bar right now, and that pulls nicely. It is of course limited by the governor...
For me, being a student now and on a budget, a rebuild of the K24 would be the best thing to do.
well, the only turbo i had was a VNT, so that was my choice..
im a student on a budget too. my car still cost me under $1000 total..
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You're not in Norway though ;)
...I'm not really either; I'm in Poland, but my car is in Norway.
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non working vnt is like having a non vnt turbo.
Like a non-vnt turbo without a wastegate actually...
how many other non-VNTs do you know of that will spool @ 1500 revs, and be making full boost by 2800 revs, and still pull till 5500 revs?
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non working vnt is like having a non vnt turbo.
Like a non-vnt turbo without a wastegate actually...
how many other non-VNTs do you know of that will spool @ 1500 revs, and be making full boost by 2800 revs, and still pull till 5500 revs?
Not in stock engine, but my friends Schwitzer S2B hybrid boosts 0,8bar/2000rpm in AAZ. 260+hp. There are differences between turbos...
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non working vnt is like having a non vnt turbo.
Like a non-vnt turbo without a wastegate actually...
how many other non-VNTs do you know of that will spool @ 1500 revs, and be making full boost by 2800 revs, and still pull till 5500 revs?
Not in stock engine, but my friends Schwitzer S2B hybrid boosts 0,8bar/2000rpm in AAZ. 260+hp. There are differences between turbos...
yea, mines a stock engine, and a stock turbo, with a stock pump.
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Frederickk, if i were you, and was debating a VNT, then i would jump on the train and go for it. you wont regret it.
i remember, back when i built my engine, there were only a HANDFUL (maybe a half dozen) older VW diesels using the VNT turbo, and now its a fairly common swap.
the info is out there now, there has been enough research and development (destroyed engines) now to know the limits of things, and such.