VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Smokey Eddy on November 22, 2011, 05:35:10 pm
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So, this happens every single winter. The GP's are all good and the compression is excellent but the fuel filter ALWAYS everytime bottle necks the fuel to the pump and i can't start the car in the cold.
I COULD replace the fuel filter every time i started the car below freezing OR has anyone put some sort of warming pad on the filter and ran it off the battery from an inverter?
I have a 600 watt inverter on the back shelf of my jetta. I recall seeing a warming blanket (about the size of a large binder) rated for 60 watts.
How long do you fellas reckon i could run the warming blanket (wrapped around the filter) and then the glow plugs off my battery at -5 to -20 centigrade?
The battery is 120 ampere hours or something. Standard battery that canadian tire (for you fellow canucks) would give you for a mark 2.
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OR should i find a couple extra lengths of hose and just go tank, filter, open oil (in my case ATF) bottle, injection pump...
OR should i start it from the bottle. drive to the nearest town, fuel up and then dump in like 10 times the amount of cetane booster the bottle recommends? That will keep it from freezing up right?
OR add kerosene?
OR add something else? Mineral Spirits?
It always starts out of a bottle but makes such a huge mess... and i hate having to do it every time i want to leave... its not hot where I am right now! (ski resort)
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why dont you put a helper pump behind your filter, so its being pressure fed?
my car did amazing things when i added a lift pump..
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why dont you put a helper pump behind your filter, so its being pressure fed?
my car did amazing things when i added a lift pump..
Have a good source? I've been contemplating this for ages. I love your photo.
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according to this link (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_freezing_point_of_diesel) diesel begins to gel at 32f/0c??? that seems way too low...
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ntheres a lift pump for diesel at lord - co for $45 ... its 4 to 6 psi i think...
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Mmmmmm $45... I think I've seen it before as well
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thats the price i get through my account tho....not sure what the normal price is...theyer accounts can be strange... great discount on one thing and almost nill on another....
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And the highest discount for something is just the normal price elsewhere.
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you can get lift pumps for old fords, and chevys, but the universal solenoid fuel pumps have no rubber inside them, and you can usually get them for under $20.. someone was getting them for ~13$ at napa auto parts on there account.
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I haven't seen the need for this on my jetta yet.
But I put a carrier electric pump on my old f250 and love it. It is also a lower pressure fuel delivery. The pump is meant for constant duty diesel fuel, I have read it does not like thicker cocktails. This pump cost me about $80 shipped, then I had to pay for hoses, fittings and sealant and wiring.
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I haven't seen the need for this on my jetta yet.
But I put a carrier electric pump on my old f250 and love it. It is also a lower pressure fuel delivery. The pump is meant for constant duty diesel fuel, I have read it does not like thicker cocktails. This pump cost me about $80 shipped, then I had to pay for hoses, fittings and sealant and wiring.
i ran a thicker cocktail once, and my pump didnt like it either..
my setup was WAY LESS than 80 bucks tho..
and im in love with the fact that i have a primer pump, and it actually makes more available power on the top end. gets rid of that little bit of throttle lag too. made my car alot more throttle response, its not nearly as lazy..
the power gain alone was worth it for me..
(you can hear the pump running when the engine is off, but not while its running)
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I can't remember the exact price right now, but I can get you a Mr Gasket 12D pump, probably $35 or so. I could send it up to Randy if you want
I'm planning to run the same one; have it wired both to my glow plug circuit and 3/4 throttle switch or high EGT or something, then let the IP pull through the rest of the time
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While an electric fuel pump will help deliver the fuel to the filter, its still gelled fuel and not good for the filter, injection pump or injectors.
I personally would run some anti-gel and heat the filter with a 12v heating pad. A thermos of hot water poured over the injection pump and filter helps as well.
I've had the fuel filter plug from gelled fuel in my caddy twice, but it started and idled fine both times. Once it did'nt have enough power to move out of its own tracks, and the other time
I had made it a mile or so from my house and slowly lost power. Both times I still had a small amount of bio-diesel in the tank when it suddenly turned cold.
Something like this one wired in on a toggle switch.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WOLVERINE-FUEL-FILTER-HEATER-DIESEL-BIO-FUEL-HEATER-12-VOLT-50-WATT-NEW-/180757353923?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2a15fa55c3
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Check out the filters that Giles is selling here:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=14836.0
He's got superior filters to what VW used, and they are available with a built-in electric heater or even a lift pump if you want to go that route. Will be a bit more than the cost of just a cheap lift pump though!!
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water (http://www.poelheizer.de/images/Eckes_Dichtring_300.jpg)
water+electric (http://www.b-e-t.org.uk/uploads/images/Fuel%20System/Universal_Double_Head_Heaters.jpg)
or more here ,only elektric http://trueasset.org.uk/index.php?page=electric-heater-module (http://trueasset.org.uk/index.php?page=electric-heater-module)
I have factory one draw 5 amp.
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The simplest solution is to add Howe's Diesel Treat to the fuel at each F/U. With nothing but ULSD available now your pump will love you for it. Most stations switch to "winter" diesel in winter, so it should have already been spiked with kerosene. If you are on summer diesel and stuck in -20 temps (like Eddy) just add a litre of kerosene to the tank and wait a few minutes for the crystals to break up. It may take a while for the new fuel to work through the filter, but a blow dryer or other non flame heat source will heat the filter housing. Hot water works, but can cause all sorts of other issues in freezing weather. I actually used a tiger torch to heat the fuel filters and tanks on a tractor stuck dead out in a field in -45C! I do NOT recommend that for anyone but mad dogs and frozen mechanics in a hurry to get back to the warm shop...
I do like the look of those filter heaters though... And I also have a generic fuel pump in front of the filter. (John Deere 'Gator" 6x4 fuel pump)
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I added 1 litre of mineral spirits to 50 litres of diesel.
I'm going to hopefully find a lift pump tomorrow morning.
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The upper picture is the oil cooler that goes between the filter and housing. If someone could come up with end plates that would adapt it to a fuel heater, it would be a cool unit. I think that I need to go to the shop..........
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That WOULD be a cool heater. It wouldn't be hard to make plates for either end.
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The cheapest lift pump I could find was $65...
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The upper picture is the oil cooler that goes between the filter and housing. If someone could come up with end plates that would adapt it to a fuel heater, it would be a cool unit. I think that I need to go to the shop..........
why would we need plates?
install it like it goes on the fuel filter housing.. run some coolant hoses to it from the engine. will locate your fuel filter 2" lower, but you will have a fuel heater..
use a long center tube, and nut just like the oil filter flange, then screw the filter on underneath it where the oil filter would go if it were being used as an oil cooler..
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The upper picture is the oil cooler that goes between the filter and housing. If someone could come up with end plates that would adapt it to a fuel heater, it would be a cool unit. I think that I need to go to the shop..........
Here's one that Frybrib sells.
http://www.frybrid.com/filters.htm
I made one a few years ago with a cheap remote oil filter mount, a 4" 3/4x16 theaded pipe, vw oil cooler/heater and a 33281 wix fuel filter.
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The upper picture is the oil cooler that goes between the filter and housing. If someone could come up with end plates that would adapt it to a fuel heater, it would be a cool unit. I think that I need to go to the shop..........
Here's one that Frybrib sells.
http://www.frybrid.com/filters.htm
I made one a few years ago with a cheap remote oil filter mount, a 4" 3/4x16 theaded pipe, vw oil cooler/heater and a 33281 wix fuel filter.
yea, thats exactly what i was trying to describe..
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How much heat do you think you would loose to the system before the fuel reached the injectors? One could insulate the lines but I don't think you can do much with the pump. Spray it with foam insulation?
I have one of those oil coolers that I not using yet so I may switch applications. Presto change oh it is now a heater. Could run the small line going to the radiator through it. Just need time to make it work. Thanks for another day in the driveway.
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How much heat do you think you would loose to the system before the fuel reached the injectors? One could insulate the lines but I don't think you can do much with the pump. Spray it with foam insulation?
I have one of those oil coolers that I not using yet so I may switch applications. Presto change oh it is now a heater. Could run the small line going to the radiator through it. Just need time to make it work. Thanks for another day in the driveway.
well, they make heated ware you can wrap around the injection lines, and i believe you can get a heater blanket of sorts for the injection pump..
and i dont think the radiator return line would work very good unless the cooler was down lower than the expansion tank. and having the cooler on the bottom of the stock fuel filter flange would keep it higher than the expansion tank..
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The cheapest lift pump I could find was $65...
Hey Eddy. I got my JD pump off of an old, wrecked Gator utility vehicle. I just looked up the price for a new one... $157! Maybe the JD dealer in Sumas has a used one? Worth a try? Get the relay as well if they do. Alternately, I would think a frame rail mounted fuel pump from just about any fuel injected Japanese vehicle would also work. Pick a Part? I have seen electric fuel pumps on many cars over there... If you want I could track something down for ya.
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The cheapest lift pump I could find was $65...
Hey Eddy. I got my JD pump off of an old, wrecked Gator utility vehicle. I just looked up the price for a new one... $157! Maybe the JD dealer in Sumas has a used one? Worth a try? Get the relay as well if they do. Alternately, I would think a frame rail mounted fuel pump from just about any fuel injected Japanese vehicle would also work. Pick a Part? I have seen electric fuel pumps on many cars over there... If you want I could track something down for ya.
fuel injection pumps run alot more than 5-7 psi tho..
if you were to get an electric pump, get one from a CARBURATED vehicle.. not fuel injected. the fuel pump will take the high pressure, but im not sure the lines or anything like that would accept the 50+ psi..
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fuel injection pumps run alot more than 5-7 psi tho..
if you were to get an electric pump, get one from a CARBURATED vehicle.. not fuel injected. the fuel pump will take the high pressure, but im not sure the lines or anything like that would accept the 50+ psi..
A carburated pump would be best of course, but I don't see the filter and fuel lines having trouble with ~30 to 50 psi. That isn't much really, and new clamps/lines should be installed anyway. Most Toyota and Nissan EFI's ran ~40 psi. Safe IMO. Besides, I have done much the same on countless tractors without even changing the lines. Perhaps the banjo fitting on the filter might be an issue... I'll give you that. But 30-50 psi is diddly.
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The problem you run into is blowing seals out of the injection pump. They were never meant to be fed pressure... 4-8psi is fine, but 40-50 will cause problems
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I'll defer to your guy's experience with these systems. I never had an issue with such things before, but you guys have way more experience with Vdubs than I do.
Cheers!