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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Grey_Smoke on August 23, 2011, 04:08:44 pm
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I have two questions, I have used the search and couldn't find anything.
My car started with small rotors on the front and drums on the back, we changed the small rotors for larger rotors off of a mk3 tdi. and the drums for disks of off and 90 (I think) mk2. now when I press the brake pedal it goes to the floor the first time, and it is only marginally harder to turn the tires by hand when the brakes are pumped about three times the pedal stops going all the way to the floor, and it gets much harder to turn the tires by hand. We have tried three different master cylinder, the original one from the car, the one the front disks came with, and a brand new one, all appeared to be the same size. there was no difference be tween the two used ones and only a very small difference with the new one. the rear axle is sitting on jack stands just behind the rotors, so it is the same as if it were on the ground.
The glow plugs worked when we first started the car, the car wast started four of five times and then they just quite, they were being run without a fuse, between the relay and the plugs, but now there is no power getting to where the fuse would be. I tried two other relays, after the original, and they made no difference.
any thoughts? :-\
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1. I assume you completely bled the brakes? Also, what diameter MC have you been using?
2. Cannot help unless you tell us what kind of car you have.
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1. yes, we have completely bled the brakes, the mc is a Meyle Products No. 100 611 we have not been able to find what diameters correspond to what part numbers, so I don't know.
2. it's in my sig, "86 Jetta Coupe TD"
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I have two questions, I have used the search and couldn't find anything.
My car started with small rotors on the front and drums on the back, we changed the small rotors for larger rotors off of a mk3 tdi. and the drums for disks of off and 90 (I think) mk2. now when I press the brake pedal it goes to the floor the first time, and it is only marginally harder to turn the tires by hand when the brakes are pumped about three times the pedal stops going all the way to the floor, and it gets much harder to turn the tires by hand. We have tried three different master cylinder, the original one from the car, the one the front disks came with, and a brand new one, all appeared to be the same size. there was no difference be tween the two used ones and only a very small difference with the new one. the rear axle is sitting on jack stands just behind the rotors, so it is the same as if it were on the ground.
The glow plugs worked when we first started the car, the car wast started four of five times and then they just quite, they were being run without a fuse, between the relay and the plugs, but now there is no power getting to where the fuse would be. I tried two other relays, after the original, and they made no difference.
any thoughts? :-\
you got air in the system somewhere, im gonna bet its in the back lines. does it have the prop valve on the back axle, or under the hood on the MC?
you need to make the prop valve think that the car has about 10 people in the car.. i always just zip-tied the valve open while bleeding the brakes..
that valve does not let all the air bleed from the rears unless manually manipulated tho..
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you need to make the prop valve think that the car has about 10 people in the car.. i always just zip-tied the valve open while bleeding the brakes..
that valve does not let all the air bleed from the rears unless manually manipulated tho..
I bet that is the problem, thanks. We will try it tonight
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2. Pull the relay and verify power at the large red wire going to the relay. There should be two large red wires. One has a white stripe and IIRC thats the one that goes to the fuse. You should have constant power at the big red wire. Also try grounding the temp sensor wire (blue/white?) with the relay in and the key on. This will trick the relay into thinking its really cold out and turn the glow plugs on. If that works, then the next step is to test the temp sensor..
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2. Pull the relay and verify power at the large red wire going to the relay. There should be two large red wires. One has a white stripe and IIRC thats the one that goes to the fuse. You should have constant power at the big red wire. Also try grounding the temp sensor wire (blue/white?) with the relay in and the key on. This will trick the relay into thinking its really cold out and turn the glow plugs on. If that works, then the next step is to test the temp sensor..
ok, so I pulled the relay, but couldn't get the test light in the slot so I pulled the fuse panel. and this is what it looked like
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jsbV6AzLhWM/TlVvqOqx3fI/AAAAAAAAAA0/_t3J7Ly0Sus/DSCN7388.jpg)
When I tested the two red wires with a test-light it didn't light up. the battery light in the cluster is on, and when i unplugged the outside wire, it went off.
I believe that the number 60 relay is the glow plugs, is this correct?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZIKRjsv6QKc/TlVvqZDPWpI/AAAAAAAAAA8/-V7ARcfG3i4/DSCN7389.jpg)
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1. So I zip-tied the prop valve open, we got some more air, out of it, but not much, and it didn't make much of a difference at the pedal.
2. I checked the turn signals this afternoon and they are not working either, could i have a larger problem? The battery is fully charged, despite the charge light being on in the cluster.
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1. if you are sure there is no air left in the system, you should next check the freeplay in the pedal. If you slowly depress the pedal, it should be free of resistance (for the most part) until the pushrod moves about 5-8mm.
2. My mistake. I was thinking that your GPR was on a separate harness above the fusebox. Yes, the relay with the production control code 60 on it is the GPR. Although I did not intend for you to check for power at the red wires in the back of the fusebox, I guess its good that you did. How are your battery connections? One of those big red wires comes straight from the battery positive to the connection at the fusebox, so trace that wire down. Do you have a pic of the wire you are disconnecting that turns the battery light off? Also with these cars, the battery light will be on when the car is not running. Many times after starting the car, you may need to blip the throttle a little bit to excite the alternator.
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2. The battery connections are good, the car starts, there is just no glow plugs, or any other lights.
the when turn the battery light off, the battery low light in the cluster turned off when I unplugged the closest wire to the camera on the left.
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2. Are you disconnecting the connectors when you are testing them? If so, test them with the connectors plugged into the fusebox.
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you need to be more specific, you say "no lights work," then you say "the when this turn the battery light off, is the closest one to the camera on the left." which makes no sense,
but something is definitely up, because your car has a ce2 box, but definitely shouldn't be be ce2
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you need to be more specific, you say "no lights work," then you say "the when this turn the battery light off, is the closest one to the camera on the left." which makes no sense,
but something is definitely up, because your car has a ce2 box, but definitely shouldn't be be ce2
OMFG.. just caught that actually, and how right you are!
wow.. thats crazy.. nothing VW was CE2 in 86.. it was all CE1, or PRE CE1..
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you need to be more specific, you say "no lights work," then you say "the when this turn the battery light off, is the closest one to the camera on the left." which makes no sense,
Ok, I fixed that, sorry.
but something is definitely up, because your car has a ce2 box, but definitely shouldn't be be ce2
what is the difference? do you have pics? will the ce2 work?
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you need to be more specific, you say "no lights work," then you say "the when this turn the battery light off, is the closest one to the camera on the left." which makes no sense,
Ok, I fixed that, sorry.
but something is definitely up, because your car has a ce2 box, but definitely shouldn't be be ce2
what is the difference? do you have pics? will the ce2 work?
the difference is, it SHOULD NOT EVEN PLUG INTO THE WIRING.. CE2 wiring didnt start until 1990..
someone tweeker-ized your car bad..
wonder if its a diesel fuse box? probably not a chance being that its CE2..
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ok, What do I do?
The Bentley I have access to has a pic of a box that is says is for a 85 to 89, and the front looks the same so I didn't know anything was wrong.
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your car should have relays on one panel, under the dash. and it should have fuses on another panel, mounted to the dash, with an access door above the gas pedal and beside the center console..
89 or 90, VW made a switch, from CE1, to CE2 wiring.. CE2 had 1 fuse/relay box.. CE1 had 2, one for fuses, and one for relays..
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That is NOT a CE2 fusebox.
CE1:
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSox4akd4OOoXU-LkwH-YfG3CfkK0HJkzFdQmmAq9TJpkd5IKzq)
CE2:
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnA4jOaEUniMNPETxH9bKc9BASq-MJW8yjke2yfuBTOhiuJIJz)
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CE1 fuse boxes are 2 parts tho.. in the mk2 cars..
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No. You are thinking of Murrican made Golf wiring which has the fusepanel separate from the relay panel. I dont even know what the term is to describe the Golf wiring other than junk.
OPs car is CE1.
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No. You are thinking of Murrican made Golf wiring which has the fusepanel separate from the relay panel. I dont even know what the term is to describe the Golf wiring other than junk.
OPs car is CE1.
...ive had lots of these "JUNK" wiring systems, and out of all the VW setups, i like this one best.. its been hands down the least troublesome wiring out of everything ive owned..
plus, you dont have to be a contortionist to check the fuses..
anyways, i was wrong.. sorry.. every fuse box ive ever seen like that, was a CE2 box.. hell, Nathan even thought it was CE2..
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You must work on a lot Golfs :P
Jettas and German made Golfs have a panel that pops out to check the fuses ;)
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You must work on a lot Golfs :P
Jettas and German made Golfs have a panel that pops out to check the fuses ;)
Wolfy cars are hard to find here, for some reason.. all i find are 1 cars (usa built) and 3 cars (mexico/brazil built) the W cars are quite scarce..
im familiar with the pop out panel. but still, its under the dash, and its screwed and clipped in. so you still have to be a contortionist to get to the panel and pop it out..
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Lots of 1 cars out here for sure.
3 cars should all have the popout panel. Its not held in with screws or anything, it just pops out.
1 cars are the ones with the long panel that goes behind the center console, but that doesnt really matter cause the fusebox is right there on teh early ones.
90-92 cars all had kneebars so thats where contortionism comes into play. For a 3 year run out of 8 years there are more easy access fuseboxes than there are contortionist fuseboxes.
Anyway, I think we are getting sideways here. I havent read all the updated info on this thread yet, so I will go back and read it.
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Lots of 1 cars out here for sure.
3 cars should all have the popout panel. Its not held in with screws or anything, it just pops out.
1 cars are the ones with the long panel that goes behind the center console, but that doesnt really matter cause the fusebox is right there on teh early ones.
90-92 cars all had kneebars so thats where contortionism comes into play. For a 3 year run out of 8 years there are more easy access fuseboxes than there are contortionist fuseboxes.
Anyway, I think we are getting sideways here. I havent read all the updated info on this thread yet, so I will go back and read it.
long panel behind the center console?
on what sort of cars? all my separated fuse panel/relay panel cars the relay panel was in the stock fuse box location.. not behind the center console.
and yes, i agree, we did get side-tracked a bit, now its back to the original topic..
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I was meaning the panel that holds the fusebox goes from one side of the car to the other on the 1 cars, but the w cars have two separate pieces that screw into the side of the center console.
Yes, so back on topic. OP, are you certain your test light works?
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I was meaning the panel that holds the fusebox goes from one side of the car to the other on the 1 cars, but the w cars have two separate pieces that screw into the side of the center console.
Yes, so back on topic. OP, are you certain your test light works?
oh, yes, gotcha.. that whole panel that has cubbys that sits where a knee bar would be..
yea, check your test light on the battery.. ive had problems that turned out to be my test light had a bad bulb. fixed the bulb and then i could trace the right wires..
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Yes, so back on topic. OP, are you certain your test light works?
I checked the test light a number of times as I was using it, just to be sure, and it works. I also used two different test lights.
*edit; oops :-[ the test light works, but I didn't have it grounded properly, so there is power all the way to the relay, and despite trying three different relays, none of them work? ???
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did you ground the temp sensor at the coolant flange to see if it would turn the relay on?
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did you ground the temp sensor at the coolant flange to see if it would turn the relay on?
not after I had the test light working properly, I will go try that now.
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did you ground the temp sensor at the coolant flange to see if it would turn the relay on?
not after I had the test light working properly, I will go try that now.
so I just grounded the temp sensor to the battery ground and the test light to the negative terminal on the battery, and got nothing.
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Do you have a multimeter?
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Do you have a multimeter?
yes I do, But I don't know what settings to us.
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did you ground the temp sensor at the coolant flange to see if it would turn the relay on?
not after I had the test light working properly, I will go try that now.
so I just grounded the temp sensor to the battery ground and the test light to the negative terminal on the battery, and got nothing.
I`ll try + battery terminal,you have double -terminal test light.
Put multimeter on resistence aka 20 k om you should see about 2,5 k om/
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1. so I disconnected the rear calipers and put plugs in at the proportioning valve, and like magic there was brakes, we took a part one of the rear calipers and it's a bit of a mess inside, so it looks like new calipers are in my immediate future.
2. so I turns out that it's not a glow plug problem, but a wider electrical problem, it seems that when I had the dash out to replace the heater core I didn't get something plugged back in properly. Now i have to find what I did wrong, it's like the car version of where's waldo. :P
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1. so the callipers were not shot, it turns out the when you bleed the rear breaks on the car, the bleed screw is only about halfway up the piston, so they are still half full of air. We took the callipers off of the carriers and used a 2x4 and a piece of steel to bleed them with the bleed screws facing up, and what do you know, there was air. So to make a long-ish story short, I now have brakes.
2. there is a brown wire that looks like it had been added for a stereo, of something, the end of it had been tweaker-ized, but it is actually the ground for the fuse box, and everything else in the dash, it had apparently been sitting on the frame, and grounding there, but when I was working on something else I moved it out of the way, and so it was no longer grounding. I have now grounded it properly and everything is working again.
thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.