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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: grape ice cream on August 07, 2011, 08:26:47 pm
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Well, i was taking my 1.6td on a little road trip this weekend and after 100 miles stopped at a g station.
since it leaks some oil i put in a decent amount and left afterwards, as i was leaving after a stop sign it started smoking with A LOT of white smoke and would not let me accelerate past 5 MPH.
I quickly pulled over and shut the car off, after a bit I tried to start it up but it would bog down and die unless i gave it some pedal to the metal and it would continue to smoke but hardly run still
Is this some kind of broken injector problem? Or is it possible It just has way too much oil in it?
any help is appreciated to help me get going
thanks
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Fuel starvation?
Clear fuel line going into the pump?
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how hot????
oil pressure reads???
to me smoke says it over heated... pistons seized in bore.. head abt to crack.. hot enough to seiz/spin a bearing even..
oil will not stop it (unless spun a bearing.. but then knock nock).. hell enough oil it will run on that vs fuel... and rev like hell when doing so...
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Timing belt jumped a tooth? Might still run but run like crap....
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How much oil is on the stick?
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how hot????
oil pressure reads???
to me smoke says it over heated... pistons seized in bore.. head abt to crack.. hot enough to seiz/spin a bearing even..
oil will not stop it (unless spun a bearing.. but then knock nock).. hell enough oil it will run on that vs fuel... and rev like hell when doing so...
i seized my engine once.. my buddy was behind me in his girlfriends 'lude, and he never saw a spec of smoke when it happened..
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Fuel lines are fine.
I'm about to go find out how much oil,
I was also thinking timing could have jumped a tooth or two because it does run pretty rough,
also coolant and oil haven't mixed so i don't think it was too hot
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upon further inspection one half of my timing belt seems to have ridges in it?
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x341/grapeicecream1/time.jpg)
The timing belt only has about 1k miles on it so i'm not sure what happend
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Too tight? Is that blue on the gear teeth of the cam? Might be checking the lower crank pulley for garbage on it from the last timing belt. Maybe wrapped something on there.
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I don't think it is too tight, I figured it was rubbing on the cover because the ridges only appear on the one half of the belt.
as for garbage i didn't really see anything
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changed the oil, no sign of coolant so i dont think it overheated
re timed the car still ran the same, it'll bog down and die unless it's revving at like 3 grand.
took out all injectors and they looked fine, but did not take them apart, is there an easy way to test them?
also new fuel filter so i don't think its clogged. but i think its not getting enough fuel to idle.
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could always remove the piping turn it upside down and install injectors on them. Cover with towel and crank engine looking at each one under a jar or glass. Takes work and a couple people but it is a way to do it.
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This would test all of them at once correct? and they all should be shooting fuel?
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Yep, if you cover them all you can see the towel get wet at each one but your spray pattern is unknown. You could cup each one and have the towel underneath to soak up the mess. Just remember that there is a lot of shaking going on and fuel on rad hoses and stuff rubber is not a good idea. So use caution here. Goggles might be needed, if plastic cups are used they may go flying off and fuel goes everywhere.
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okay so i took your advice and tried testing the injectors that way,
this is what my setup looked like and i cycled through all 4 injectors
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x341/grapeicecream1/injector.jpg)
everyone looked like it was spraying fuel, does this mean that they are all most likely good?
if so i'm out of ideas on whats wrong with my car
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Well, eliminating the possibility for a fuel delivery problem is only part of the solution. Your testing proves the pump is pumping and the injectors are not plugged. So on to the next square. I suspect timing first and amount later. It races so you know that volume is not the issue.
The question was asked about clear fuel line. The poster is hinting at air visible at low RPM I am guessing. Mine will do that after a long haul, It cranks it out without a problem but where it is coming from is a mystery to me. I may need to reheat the copper washers after I replaced the fuel filter and had to remove the whole bracket to do so.
Time to re-time and adjust. Something got hot, and slipped the belt? I would confirm timing.
After that I might start looking at the IP for a restriction at low RPMs, a piece of o ring or something. Do you have a way to measure pressure of the pump. If not then you have to go with volume over time and consider that to equal good pressure. Someone correct me if I am off on these numbers, 625 ml in 90 secs at idle of 750 RPM?
Don't you just love this crap?
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How much oil is on the stick?
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Bypass the tank and all the lines before the filter and run it off a jerry can. Check to make sure your intake isn't clogged up with a bird or something.
While you have the injectors out do a compression test.
Were any of the injectors covered in oil or black/wet when you took them out?
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Bypass the tank and all the lines before the filter and run it off a jerry can. Check to make sure your intake isn't clogged up with a bird or something.
While you have the injectors out do a compression test.
Were any of the injectors covered in oil or black/wet when you took them out?
The oil level was higher than full, at about where the dipstick spelled full and had a line it covered the word full, i did drain the oil though and replaced it with the proper amount and tried starting it again with the same problem.
I did also retime the car
I don't believe the injectors had oil on them just some diesel fuel and the fuel filter is new, less than 500 miles on it.
So I should probably do a compression test and/or get a cup of fuel that the injection pump takes out of to bypass the tank to elimate any clogged or leaking lines.
What is the easiest way to do a compression check?
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Bypass the tank and all the lines before the filter and run it off a jerry can. Check to make sure your intake isn't clogged up with a bird or something.
While you have the injectors out do a compression test.
Were any of the injectors covered in oil or black/wet when you took them out?
The oil level was higher than full, at about where the dipstick spelled full and had a line it covered the word full, i did drain the oil though and replaced it with the proper amount and tried starting it again with the same problem.
I did also retime the car
I don't believe the injectors had oil on them just some diesel fuel and the fuel filter is new, less than 500 miles on it.
So I should probably do a compression test and/or get a cup of fuel that the injection pump takes out of to bypass the tank to elimate any clogged or leaking lines.
What is the easiest way to do a compression check?
take the injectors out, and use your DIESEL compression gauge..
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I did also retime the car
You took the valve cover off and made sure that when the bottom end is at TDC, as visible through the timing plug, that the pump and cam were also at TDC?
What did you time the pump too?
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injectors are out but i do not have a DIESEL compression gauge handy but might pick one up later this week,
and yes the valve cover was off and both of the first cylinder cams were pointed upwards, I timed the IP so the notch on the gear lined up with the one on the actually injection pump
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I think V-8 was looking for numbers. .89MM or 1.03 something off a dial gauge you put in the back of the IP and determine in addition to the line up of the marks.
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Okay is this a special dial gauge or something?
as far as i know it'd be a zero wouldn't it if it was all at tdc?
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burn yo bucks don't blow a gasket here. Grape ice Cream go to FAQ in the English section and scroll down to timing and pick up on a couple of the reads. It is a measurement procedure you have to do with a specific tool to find a number that gives you an idea of how you compare to the suggested setting the VW designers used for the IP. This measure is a baseline you use to set the pump. Changes in pump position, towards and way from the engine and off the direct line where you have the two marks lined up on the pump and bracket results in timing being advanced or retarded. You need a baseline or reference for you engine performance to be optimal.
Whew. what did he just say?
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burn yo bucks don't blow a gasket here.
Me? What?
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I may have you confused with another BYM but someone will generally jump out and point out the multiple links to how to "time" the IP and the need for the dial measurement and what it should be. If this is not you I recant the statement above. Your gaskets are fine.
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okay thank you I read a write up on it and I should be able to time it to around 1.00mm
But I was wondering if this could even cause my car to not run unless its at about full throttle and even then it will only got about 5MPH?
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burn yo bucks don't blow a gasket here.
Me? What?
Tyler is one of the most pleasant, level headed users on here, as far as im concerned..
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But I was wondering if this could even cause my car to not run unless its at about full throttle and even then it will only got about 5MPH?
Those symptoms sound like the pump is 180 out, or severe fuel starvation.
Thanks ROR
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But I was wondering if this could even cause my car to not run unless its at about full throttle and even then it will only got about 5MPH?
Those symptoms sound like the pump is 180 out, or severe fuel starvation.
Thanks ROR
mo problem.. your a good guy, and i give compliments where they are deserved.. 8)
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Bypass the tank and all the lines before the filter and run it off a jerry can.
x2. Easiest way to eliminate possibility of fuel system restriction/sucking air.
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Bypass the tank and all the lines before the filter and run it off a jerry can.
x2. Easiest way to eliminate possibility of fuel system restriction/sucking air.
I'll give that a try tomorrow and see what happens
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But I was wondering if this could even cause my car to not run unless its at about full throttle and even then it will only got about 5MPH?
Those symptoms sound like the pump is 180 out, or severe fuel starvation.
It ran till he stopped atthe gas station, unlikely his pump went upside down...
Did you fill up?
What is the fuel like? if you got 80% gas in there, it will run like ass as soon as its the least bit warm.
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First line of the thread: Well, i was taking my 1.6td on a little road trip this weekend and after 100 miles stopped at a g station.
But then the pictures of the belt got us to thinking timing. I wouldn't think it went 180 on him but now the gas for diesel possibility is a reality. And running it off a bottle bypassing the filter would determine that in a hurry.
Easy to pull the line off the bottom on the tank and drain. Sometimes I wonder why VW made that point so accessible. With diesel prices getting higher all the time I shudder to think someone could just zip that point off and get my fuel.
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Good call on gas in tank guys. I had to go rescue a friends powerstroke last year when his mom put 10 gals. on gas in it by mistake.
Really white smoke and no power. I siphoned the 10 gals gas mixed with maybe 5 gals of diesel out, and added 15 gals of diesel
and there was still a hint of white smoke so he topped off the tank and smoking stopped.
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First line of the thread: Well, i was taking my 1.6td on a little road trip this weekend and after 100 miles stopped at a g station.
Right, but as I understand he has retimed it since than so it being 180 out is now a possibility. Of course that doesn't explain the initial problems but to me from his last post it sounded like he was describing some new symptoms.
Hooking it up to the jerry can and running it off that will take a while to show if it is gas in the tank because the pump would be full of this gas/diesel mixture and will take a while to mix out.
If you kept your receipt you could just look on that...
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True, now that he has tried to "FIX" the problem anything is fair game. And he was fishing for ideas. He didn't say how much he added to the tank and given that he only went 100 miles that might not be much. He may have a diesel/ RUG mix thing going.
He may have to run several bottles through the IP to get it to be only diesel. That little thing seems to hold a quart or so.
Will be interesting to see what the outcome of this one is going to be.
I always get a receipt but I see a lot of people that say no to the guy at the pump when he asks. Oh yeah, this is Oregon calling, you don't and can't pump your own here. Although I was told by a station attendant that doesn't apply to diesel. It was for gasoline only. Might have to look into that. Has to do with the top off thing, they pull it and shut off the pump on first click, not allowed to top off the tank. But I wonder about the diesel now.
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Or even if the receipt says diesel it could be bad fuel. My dad had a real similar thing happen. They filled the diesel pump tank up with something that looked like a mix of water with maybe a pinch of gas. It shut down his injectors and junked the tank. Even if it says diesel tested daily I would still look there first
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I did not fill up. so there is no gas in my fuel tank only diesel
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also the symptoms are all the same the car will start but only when its at full throttle and it'll be smoking white but if i put it into first it'll only go about 5 MPH, after i drained the oil i started it up and the same symptoms, after i retimed it the same symptoms
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Ok. Any updates on bypassing the tank and lines with a jerry can?
Also, make sure that the fuel filter hasn't rattled loose and that the bleeder is still tight on the fuel filter head.
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This is unlikely but you could have bent or broken something with the oil being that far over full. My mom bent a connecting rod in our mower by having it too full of oil and it hydrolocked. It should take far more oil than what you had though. I am just stating this so if you go through all other things you can take the engine down and start measuring connecting rods and inspecting pistons.
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Actually I have a question about the jerry can
When I tested my injectors i assumed the fuel came from the metal lines, so i did not hook up the rubber hoses that link them all together.
This is when I noticed the fuel was coming from where the rubber hose hooked up to the injection pump.
So my question is what difference would it make if I bypassed the filter because fuel was not coming from that fitting?
Is this normal or am I just over thinking it?
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Actually I have a question about the jerry can
When I tested my injectors i assumed the fuel came from the metal lines<right, so i did not hook up the rubber hoses that link them all together.
This is when I noticed the fuel was coming from where the rubber hose hooked up to the injection pump. There are 2 sources of return flow
(http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/46384_system_3.jpg)
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Okay but the fuel was shooting OUT of the fitting where the same rubber hoses connect to on the IP, periodically
I was under the impression this would be a vacuum not a fuel source
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no that is the return for the pump as well. The rubber lines between the injectors T into the return there.
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Okay tried the jerry can today, but the car ran the same.
Does that most likely mean its an internal problem (rods, piston, hg?)
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i would lean towards a fueling issue.
did you run the can straight to the pump, or thru the fuel filter?
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bypassed the filter so straight to the pump.
Is there a possibility for a clogged return line that could effect it?
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Fuel should be cycling in and out of the pump at a good clip at idle. Now you can't seem to get it to idle well so that might be hard to determine. But at full on run it would really be cycling through the pump. So I don't see how a restriction would be possible. Oh, Have you pulled the out bolt off and made sure that screen in the insert is clean. Back flush the out fitting using some fuel and and a short piece of tubing. Maybe the piece that normally goes between the filter and the pump. Put the out bolt in the fitting and plug the little nipple with a rubber cap and see what comes out.
I inspect using a mirror and the sun. Small hand held one to shine light into it and look from the side. I have picked little pieces of crap out of there in the past. Some old O ring or the like.
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Fuel should be cycling in and out of the pump at a good clip at idle. Now you can't seem to get it to idle well so that might be hard to determine. But at full on run it would really be cycling through the pump. So I don't see how a restriction would be possible. Oh, Have you pulled the out bolt off and made sure that screen in the insert is clean. Back flush the out fitting using some fuel and and a short piece of tubing. Maybe the piece that normally goes between the filter and the pump. Put the out bolt in the fitting and plug the little nipple with a rubber cap and see what comes out.
I inspect using a mirror and the sun. Small hand held one to shine light into it and look from the side. I have picked little pieces of crap out of there in the past. Some old O ring or the like.
What bolt are you talking about? the one by the injector lines?
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Yes, that bolt on top that has the little injector hose on the left side and the bigger hose that returns to the tank. Mine is actually stamped with the word OUT on it. That way bonehead mechanics like me won't put it in the front of the pump and restrict their inflow. They can be interchanged. There is a screen up in there and it is peened in with three marks to keep it in so just back flush it, brush it out or what ever to be sure the flow it not overly restricted.
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I checked out the little filter you were talking about but it looked pretty clean nothing looked clogged in it.
I also took the top off the injection pump to see if a spring or something might of broke but everything looks good also.
I'm not sure what else to try to get this turd running
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Also checked my exhaust to see if it was clogged, but it was not
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is your car turbo charged? is your turbo actually working? is the air filter clogged?
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Yes it is.
The filter is not clogged
and I the turbo spins freely if i use my hand so it is not seized or anything,
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I think a compression test would be a good next step
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Going back to this statement from page 3:
"also the symptoms are all the same the car will start but only when its at full throttle and it'll be smoking white but if i put it into first it'll only go about 5 MPH, after i drained the oil i started it up and the same symptoms, after i retimed it the same symptoms"
This sounds like a timing issue to me, white smoke is retarded, timing speak, not operator. But he says he has done it many times and only changed it a tad off recommended. If you have set the cam and loosened the cam pulley, set the IP with the pin and have it on TDC solid on what could go wrong? The only thing that has ever caught me up is the tightening of the idler pulley. At times the cam pulley does not turn freely on the tapered shaft and it puts tension on the cam stop. So even though I think it is timed well it is off slightly by a few degrees. Is that the problem?
This is driving me nuts and I don't even have the trouble at hand.
Good luck solving it.
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I'm just gonna pull the head tomorrow, and check it out.
I'll post up what i find, if i find anything
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I would do the compression check before you pull the head.
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I would do the compression check before you pull the head.
x2
its REALLY HARD to check your compression with the head OFF.
if you find a way to check compression without the head, post a write up!
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just wondering...what dose water do in these 1.6 td,s? can it draw through the filter? and any one ever hear of an injecter sticking? if one was stuck open..over fueling on one cylender it would make all that white smoke and not run worth a crap.... just a quick thought....
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just wondering...what dose water do in these 1.6 td,s? can it draw through the filter? and any one ever hear of an injecter sticking? if one was stuck open..over fueling on one cylender it would make all that white smoke and not run worth a crap.... just a quick thought....
water, in big enough doses, kills these diesels.. it indeed can draw thru the filter.
injectors can stick open. its bad news, they get fuel in your oil, and sometimes, can burn a hole right thru the piston..
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He tested his injectors on page #1.
To me it still sounds like the pump is 180 out. With the engine at TDC, if you take the pump pulley bolt off where is the slot for the key in the shaft pointing? 8 o'clock or 2 o'clock?
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He tested his injectors on page #1.
oops i missed that....but with lots of white smoke...dosent that sound like unburnt fuel? so if the pump was 180 out you would have that?
if it was due to low compression (broken rings,valve, ect) wouldnt there be loads of base pressure? dam near blow the dip stick out pressure?
pressure you would notice with the dip stivk out or oil filler cap off?
there,s alway a bit there but im talking some thing more like wind comming out! lol
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BYM, Sneaky you, not giving him the right position of the key in the slot until he tells you which position it is in. I like it.
Guy, My engine blow by is like the north wind in Canada in the winter. Blows all the time. But my engine runs pretty well. Still plugging at 50 MPG.
I am wondering as well about the 180 degree thing as he rebuilt the pump. When I did my pump it still started for some crazy reason with the pump that far out but wouldn't do more than an idle. Didn't matter if the max fuel screw was bottomed out or not. Just kind of putted along.
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true and all that white smoke would or should...could be unburnt fuel...that i have seen before but for real bad reasons...lol and a pump 180 out would dliver the fuel at the wrong time and not get burnt proper... sorry for stating the obvious...but to me... it sounds like the fuels not getting burnt or not fully getting burnt...and im trying to wrap my head around why it isnt..same as every one else...lol
it will be interesting to finaly find out what the cause is
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i think Tyler is on the right track..
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BYM, Sneaky you, not giving him the right position of the key in the slot until he tells you which position it is in. I like it.
Yeah, I'm a jerk. It should be pointing around the 2 o'clock position. :-X
I remember Ashley Roe's pump being 180 out for months and it drove "fine" until she had her pump rebuilt and timed properly. Only then did she realize how poorly it was running before. From that I would gather it runs "decent" 180 out if you get it timed just so.
It's not that hard to retime the engine with the pump 180 degrees off of where it is now even if the key is in the right place. As mentioned, if the pump was put together wrong that key may not indicate anything.
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You're not a jerk, just making him take off the pulley before answering the question. Which is what forums are all about.
I would think if his pump turns out to by 180 out, in that he pulls the pulley and duh? the key is not where it should be then just slap it back together and use the other hole and mark the pulley with a temporary line of sorts. Or stand on your head to time it.
This is a real potatoe masher this one.
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what do you mean by key? The lock pin you use to hold the IP gear in place when you time it?
why would i need to pull the gear off to check that?
And i believe its at 4 o clock if understand what your talking about
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what do you mean by key? The lock pin you use to hold the IP gear in place when you time it?
why would i need to pull the gear off to check that?
And i believe its at 4 o clock if understand what your talking about
the woodruff key.. not the pump lock pin. 2 completely different things with 2 completely different functions..
you can check the position of the key by simply removing the nut from the injection pump sprocket, and checking where the keyways location is.. no removal of gear or timing belt required..
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I figured out what you meant now, my bad but
It appears to be at 10 o clock?
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x341/grapeicecream1/IPkey.jpg)
But this is a NA pump not a TD pump, if that effects key placement
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I figured out what you meant now, my bad but
It appears to be at 10 o clock?
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x341/grapeicecream1/IPkey.jpg)
But this is a NA pump not a TD pump, if that effects key placement
that makes ZERO difference.. TDC is TDC no matter if its a TD or NA pump.
its been soo long since ive touched that end of a pump, i cant remember if that looks right or not..
please tell me that is not what you use for a pump lock pin? that allen wrench is just sitting there, right?
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But this is a NA pump not a TD pump, if that effects key placement
NA or TD makes no difference. 10 o'clock is correct. I got my number mixed up in my previous post. I would still try timing it 180 out on purpose because if the pump was assembled wrong this would be the result.
Is that the pump locking pin you use to set the timing? As I recall you don't have a dial indicator right?
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ic okay
and no i do not have a dial indicator, and yea that allen wrench is holding it in place for now
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ic okay
and no i do not have a dial indicator, and yea that allen wrench is holding it in place for now
its holding it in place temporarily, right? because that wont even get you close, compared to a real lock pin, or alteast a tight fitting deep socket..
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I have found that a 3/4 inch carriage bolt, those kind with the flush face and square bolt like part that you use for building a fence or deck work real well. Might actually be a bit bigger than that in width.
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i used a 11mm deep socket....
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i used a 11mm deep socket....
most use a deep socket of some sort..
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You guys must have more than one set of sockets. As soon as I stick in the 11 mm I need it someplace else. Although there are not to many places that would require it on the car now are they.
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I think the only place I used and 11mm socket was on the trans. I think there was a bolt on it on a sheild and then my speedo hold down is 11mm.
BUT
I have my craftsman set and if I were using the 11mm deep I would still have the 11mm shallow.
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11mm is the same as 7/16th.. so i just use the 7/16ths deep socket if i need the deep 11mm.
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Depends on the set. My metrics seem to be wider walled than the American Sockets. Maybe I should look into that. Might get a real snug fit with something other than the carriage bolt. Although it is pretty tight, just not smooth like a socket so it jiggles around a bit more.
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i don't use any lockin device when timin?
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i don't use any lockin device when timin?
thats just not wise..
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Yeah, I would think with all the trouble we do have trying to get to that magic moment when it all lines up and sounds right that leaving the IP loose at the tension time would be a little risky. Maybe getting the belt at the right tension, to the half twist point doesn't put enough of a pull on the IP pulley to make it move that much.
Going to take me a longer weekend trip to Idaho this coming weekend. Paint on the Project car. Looking to surpass that 46.1 average I have going with Kingery. His average is tanking now that he played with the pump I see. Touchy lil devils they are. I did the same over the weekend and lost 2.5 mpg. Gotta stop messing with it.
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Yeah, I would think with all the trouble we do have trying to get to that magic moment when it all lines up and sounds right that leaving the IP loose at the tension time would be a little risky. Maybe getting the belt at the right tension, to the half twist point doesn't put enough of a pull on the IP pulley to make it move that much.
Going to take me a longer weekend trip to Idaho this coming weekend. Paint on the Project car. Looking to surpass that 46.1 average I have going with Kingery. His average is tanking now that he played with the pump I see. Touchy lil devils they are. I did the same over the weekend and lost 2.5 mpg. Gotta stop messing with it.
i read that and laughed out loud hard enough to cause other to take a stronger look at me LOL
i just dont .. i don't use any "lockin tools" not for the cam, pump or nothing.. i mean you don't get a "lockin tool" for the crank, but you still manage to keep that in the right spot (and you cannot even see that pulley durin timin, or at least i cannot)
i just get the cam where it's even across it's "lock spot," and then there's a mark to line the right tooth up for the pump, and then there's a mark to line up the crank.
once i have them all lined up and i get the belt on, i spin the motor 1 revolution, recheck my marks, lock the cam tensioner down, then proceed to timin the pump.
i guess i've done enough mazda timin belts that i've got a feelin for if i've got the right tooth or not.
or maybe the lockin devices are for a different procedure?
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It's not about being "on the right tooth...
timing is more sensitive than a tooth, it's in millimeters. Thats why the cam pulley has infinite adjustment when broken free and the IP is movable. Because one tooth is NOT ENOUGH.
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Wow I do get it..
I assume cam timin to be right, and as it has been for me.. It's never moved or i've never had a reason to loosen it.
He'll I don't know what I'd do if that came loose. Guess id find that 11mm yall speak of
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If your car is running right with your described procedure and getting good mileage then keep doing it. Oh and start buying lottery tickets because you have "got IT" when it comes to blind luck my friend. The rest of us struggle with the mm of getting it close and you just seem to do it without said difficulties.
Some time life is just not fair!
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Yeah, I would think with all the trouble we do have trying to get to that magic moment when it all lines up and sounds right that leaving the IP loose at the tension time would be a little risky. Maybe getting the belt at the right tension, to the half twist point doesn't put enough of a pull on the IP pulley to make it move that much.
Going to take me a longer weekend trip to Idaho this coming weekend. Paint on the Project car. Looking to surpass that 46.1 average I have going with Kingery. His average is tanking now that he played with the pump I see. Touchy lil devils they are. I did the same over the weekend and lost 2.5 mpg. Gotta stop messing with it.
i read that and laughed out loud hard enough to cause other to take a stronger look at me LOL
i just dont .. i don't use any "lockin tools" not for the cam, pump or nothing.. i mean you don't get a "lockin tool" for the crank, but you still manage to keep that in the right spot (and you cannot even see that pulley durin timin, or at least i cannot)
i just get the cam where it's even across it's "lock spot," and then there's a mark to line the right tooth up for the pump, and then there's a mark to line up the crank.
once i have them all lined up and i get the belt on, i spin the motor 1 revolution, recheck my marks, lock the cam tensioner down, then proceed to timin the pump.
i guess i've done enough mazda timin belts that i've got a feelin for if i've got the right tooth or not.
or maybe the lockin devices are for a different procedure?
you just are NOT aware how important the locking tools REALLY are apparently..
you can get by without locking the pump, but i ALWAYS lock the cam.. it never seems to stay where i want it without the lock..
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If you really think about it, if you have 3 pulleys and are going to tension them, AT LEAST 1 HAS to move.. So if you are eyballing the cam to be at tdc, THEN tensioning it, something HAS to be off. To "eyeball it" correctly, you have to eyeball the cam slightly after tdc, and tensioning it will pull it (or the crank) to tdc.
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I never lock the cam and I only lock the IP to hold the marks since the camplate is always trying to turn it.
Afterwards I check it over really good and make sure it's right and then turn the crank with a wrench 2 or 4 whole turns and check the marks again.
The only time I had a problem was when I forgot to tighten the cam bolt, after turning a quarter turn or so it went "thunk", and I had to redo it. But that's the reason for turning it with a wrench first.
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havent touched it in a while, but is it possible that the IP is going out and only draws fuel at higher RPM so it wouldn't run without WOT?
what do you guys think
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I just finished rebuilding a spare IP I have had around for awhile. When I tried swapping it for the working one a while back it just wouldn't produce enough out the back to get it past Idle. When I finally got it all tore down I found the front vanes were worn along the sides and keeping the little squares from moving out to get next to the side of the pump barrel. So it was making very little pressure, like 15 lbs on the front side and next to nothing on the backend. My guess is that one one of the four movable squares was doing duty. I tried to tap in the regulator on the front side and it didn't help at all.
Now that I have the vanes free I haven't had the time to swap it back in there. I really need some extra banjos for this sort of thing. Then I could just run it off my drill and see what the result of the fix was.
How old is this pump and when was the last rebuild?
So this car really hasn't run right since the fatal day pulling into the gas station?
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As far as i know the pump is stock and has never been rebuilt there is about 200K miles on it and yea it'll run at WOT but only have enough power to go about 5MPH
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Sounds like classic pump main shaft bushing/seal failure.. To be honest..
If it will still run, but only be able to sustain it at wot.. Means its probably sucking A LOT of air.
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assuming that how can i determine this should i take the pump apart and is there something i would notice? or can you only swap it with a known working one to see
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If it is sucking that much air your return line should be bubbling like a soda fountain. Clear line attached to the return after the Out bolt should show air in lines. Or is that already ruled out? Didn't go back to thread beginning.