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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: wdkingery on August 05, 2011, 04:28:16 pm
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so ORCoaster got me to thinkin.. wonder what else ya'll are puttin in yer tank/crank
so i figured i'd go first.
crank: (prolong, the miracle honey of the 90's, and some "motor medic" i had been gettin for a $1 )
(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/9143/imag0003jk.jpg)
tank: (ofcourse my phone focused on the house in the background but you get the point)
(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7624/imag0002ui.jpg)
(5w20, 2 stroke, paraffin wax, ATF, some gunk brand anti gel)
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10% Canola [when I remember] for that french fry smell ;D
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mmmm great idea!
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'Bout all I add to the diesel tank is a can of Seafoam from time to time.. The "WVO" tank gets all sort of nasty crap dumped in it.. None of it any sort of additive of course...
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Oh yeah, I know that Gulf Wax box well. What is the anti gel for? Haven't seen that one mentioned before. I don't see the vial of lavender oil anywhere out there. I know you are dying to try it. Are you running this thing on used motor oil? Or adding a bit to the diesel? What is your current recipe for the tank mix?
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Oh yeah, I know that Gulf Wax box well. What is the anti gel for? Haven't seen that one mentioned before. I don't see the vial of lavender oil anywhere out there. I know you are dying to try it. Are you running this thing on used motor oil? Or adding a bit to the diesel? What is your current recipe for the tank mix?
Hahahah I really do wanna try the lavender oil hahahaha.
The anti gel was like 65 cents a pop and it said cetane boost so i bought like 4 or 5 for fun.
Now the real question you asked me!
I just poured some motor oil in (it was a random jug we had around) just to get rid of it but my ultimate goal was W85. Ford made some large idi's in the 80's and early 90's and those guys are using 85% used motor oil mixed with 15% regular unleaded.. So i bought a vw idi to do this myself but never built the filtering contraption
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That Splains it. My son had an 84 Rabbit he converted to WVO and on occasion he would dump his engine change in the fuel tank to use it rather than throw it away. Without a filtering mechanism I would be leery of doing that. He now runs his Dodge Ram on WVO but he bought a centrifuge to filter out the heavy breading and fry parts. I would think something like that would also take care of the metal shavings. Maybe not they are so fine. Magnet maybe, in a filter?
I see your smoke bombing resulted in a rather steep drop on the Fuelly curve last fill. Fun costs. ;D
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Hahahah did you see that?? And remember i'm 3% high to boot! Wound that screw right back in!
How much was this centerfuge?
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The Wizzy gizmo was pretty cheap because it was broken. Not sure what it's real purpose was. My son had a spare washing machine motor laying around and put that in there somehow. Says it reeaallly throws the crap out now. He generally collects a bunch of oil in those five gallon jugs around town and then bulk filters it on a Saturday. Takes most of the afternoon to process about a hundred gallons. He stores about 5-700 on his place in those plastic tanks on pallets that i think they use for agricultural spraying.
And Yeah had to hit the link at the bottom of you sig after previous discussion on that fuel screw.
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maybe i'm being dumb, but why are you putting paraffin in your car? isn't it less lubricated than diesel?
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Been running on WVO for more than 300,000kms. I never add anything to my fuel, the VO improves the lubricity just fine. As for the engine oil, i just use Rotella T6 and a bit of Lucas oil treatment
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maybe i'm being dumb, but why are you putting paraffin in your car? isn't it less lubricated than diesel?
Parafin wax is different to parafin heater oil. The former dissolves in diesel and improves it's lubricity
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maybe i'm being dumb, but why are you putting paraffin in your car? isn't it less lubricated than diesel?
Parafin wax is different to parafin heater oil. The former dissolves in diesel and improves it's lubricity
hmm, thanks! i'll try that next fill up. what kind of ratio?
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Thanks for the cover Mark, I think you have both over there and use them differently.
Why the WaX? Two reasons: First for thickening the fuel, Bosh pumps at least mine is thirty years old. There is some wear in there that is like microscopic. But it makes the internal pressure low and I can't pound the pressure regulator in any more. So I have two choices. New pump or thicker fluid to pump. Not wanting to do the WVO conversion, been down that stinky road, and you still need regular diesel to start on cold. I found that adding wax 2 OZ to a gallon of diesel than when it is dissolved pour that in the rest of the 10 gallon tank. But you can go more, some say much more. Getting the diesel thick gets the pressure in the pump where it should be, 43 lbs at idle and 70+ at full boar roar. Pressure controls dynamic timing so if you are good at idle the path across the RPM range is good. Timing controls efficiency, power, drivability, and smooths out the wham or the knock of the diesel. If you walked up to my car at idle you wouldn't know it was a diesel. It is that quiet now.
What do you know of making diesel? The mandated Ultra Low Sulfur is called skinny, it has less viscosity than the old stuff. The stuff my thirty year old pump was designed/ engineered to run on. Some of the process to make the fuel have less sulfur takes out the thickening agents. So I put it back in with a bonus. Paraffin has a good deal of Cetane in it. Diesels love Cetane! So the power of the fuel comes up, the timing is on and I am a happy motorist getting 50 MPG.
Now go get some, put one whole brick, 1/4 of a pound in your fuel and see what that does to your drivabiltiy of your car. I could put all or some of those other additives in the fuel but they are more expensive for me. I get 80 gallons of diesel treated for 4 bucks. 2 oz each tank along with some other oil to make the fuel slippery. It is a strange brew we use.
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Hey this is the first I've seen this, I want to try it. Gulf wax huh, does it actually dissolve in the fuel? How long does it need to mix? Should I use a glass jug to see whats happening? Thanks for bringing this up, I just use 4 oz of power service once in a while.
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Now I see the details in the fuel mileage thread in troubleshooting - thanks.
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re: the topic, I run seafoam sometimes, and power service in the winter. Best additive ever has been Schaffer's EP molybdenum treatment. Awesome stuff. Pretty much a one-time deal to treat. Raised my mpg by 1 or 2, and saved my bacon on a couple of occasions with no oil pressure (air pump seized once and stopped the oil pump). No damage.
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re: Wax, I have a friend that wants to get rid of some kerosene. I know it is too "dry" to run by itself, would it work to dissolve wax in there to make it right? Does the wax ever separtate out of the fuel? I'm going to park it over the winter.
Thanks
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So the Schaffer stuff is crankcase oil treatment? I think my engine is so loose inside it needs new rings. Then maybe something to reduce that friction.
According to the late Hagar, if you happened to wax your fuel and the temps went down then you could be saved by adding some kerosene. So I think you could get away with the mix. If you park it over the winter then plan ahead. Burn out the waxy fuel and refill with straight diesel and perhaps some of the other additives that are geared to stabilize fuel. Not sure what products are out there for that, I can't let my VW rest until I park it for the few days I work and use the mass transit.
So yeah, wax up the kerosene double or triple, 4-6 oz in the 10 gallon tank. Shoot Hagar would have you dropping a full pound in there just so you could see the result. But he was a little extreme at times.
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i'm new to this, but won't all the different additives change the flash point and essentially either retard or advance your timing? I'm running B99 cause its readily available and about 50-70 cents a gallon cheaper here in rhode island than diesel from the pump (no road tax on B99 here if the source oil is local), but i was just thinking the wax could be retarding timing and eliminating the "diesel knock" noise rather than lubing away the noise, my engine is super f-ing loud i wish i could make it quiet with a bit of paraffin. maybe i should try putting my muffler back on first though :)
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I put 1/4 pound of wax per tank.
My diesel does not have the diesel noise at all, once warm
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i'm new to this, but won't all the different additives change the flash point and essentially either retard or advance your timing? I'm running B99 cause its readily available and about 50-70 cents a gallon cheaper here in rhode island than diesel from the pump (no road tax on B99 here if the source oil is local), but i was just thinking the wax could be retarding timing and eliminating the "diesel knock" noise rather than lubing away the noise, my engine is super f-ing loud i wish i could make it quiet with a bit of paraffin. maybe i should try putting my muffler back on first though :)
wax changes the timing values because of viscosity (thickness) of the fuel.
thicker fuel builds more pressure in the fuel pump..
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i'm new to this, but won't all the different additives change the flash point and essentially either retard or advance your timing? I'm running B99 cause its readily available and about 50-70 cents a gallon cheaper here in rhode island than diesel from the pump (no road tax on B99 here if the source oil is local), but i was just thinking the wax could be retarding timing and eliminating the "diesel knock" noise rather than lubing away the noise, my engine is super f-ing loud i wish i could make it quiet with a bit of paraffin. maybe i should try putting my muffler back on first though :)
wax changes the timing values because of viscosity (thickness) of the fuel.
thicker fuel builds more pressure in the fuel pump..
Don't forget it also reduces friction...
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Stanton. S. You say you are running Biodiesel. That is just diesel from a different oil. Still skinny and I would say yes to adding paraffin to it. The fuel is in need of making it thick to be able to build pressure. As R.O.R says, thick fuel changes timing, wax makes it thick. Simple as apple pie.
If you are an Oregonian what the heck are you doing in RI buying cheap fuel, come back home and pay 4.20 a gallon like the rest of us.
Actually I found a place here in Portland doing 3.71/gal So I "filled it" 6.4 gallons. Whhooopppppeeee.
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At every fill up, I add 3 ounces of Acetone to every 10 gal of fuel, Diesel or petro, doesn't matter.
It helps the fuel to atomize better, especially petrol with Ethanol in it.
I can see anywhere from 25 to 50 miles per tank more.
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The only experience I have with Acetone is cleaning the water off chemistry equipment in Organic Chem Lab. It sure was cold to the touch and I think EPA now calls it a carcinigen. Along with our gasser friends benzene.
Flash point anyone? Time to go find an MSDS.
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At every fill up, I add 3 ounces of Acetone to every 10 gal of fuel, Diesel or petro, doesn't matter.
It helps the fuel to atomize better, especially petrol with Ethanol in it.
I can see anywhere from 25 to 50 miles per tank more.
Now that's interesting... Won't that promote wear in the injection pump? Would injecting into the intake be more beneficial?
Diesels are funny things really, because they never seem to suffer from incomplete combustion, unless flooring it, hence no CO poisoning.
Thinking about your figures, then that 3 oz is like 5 to 10% improvement, or like another gallon of fuel at the old economy rate.
Finding the secret tuning spot for a particular engine gives dramatic improvement.
Remember, because this is a swirl chamber, degree of atomization is not crucial, as the droplets are torn apart by the 'wind.'
My top mpg's are with second user injectors set to 135bar. However I'm not saying that I couldn't get better with new 155bar, but I've not managed so far :'(
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I recently had all my injectors rebuilt and they are the 135 ones. I thought about asking for them to pop at a lower value but couldn't decide on 130 or 127 so I just figure as they get old they would pop different.
50 MPG American.
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Only fuel additive Ive ever actually seen/heard a difference with is 2 stroke oil.
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At every fill up, I add 3 ounces of Acetone to every 10 gal of fuel, Diesel or petro, doesn't matter.
It helps the fuel to atomize better, especially petrol with Ethanol in it.
I can see anywhere from 25 to 50 miles per tank more.
Now that's interesting... Won't that promote wear in the injection pump? Would injecting into the intake be more beneficial?
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I'm not really sure, we are talking about 3 ounces mixed with 10 gallons, most of it will evaporate almost immediately, but the bi product is making the fuel a little less unstable so it fans out better. I did see a difference, I have 217K miles on my daily and my commute to work, I was getting 4.5 days from a tank, I can now get a full 5 days, after several runs, I can get 25-50 more miles per tank.
This is especially accurate in Gassers as the ethanol added actually makes atomization worse, this basically reverses that problem and still help a little above and beyond that.
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At every fill up, I add 3 ounces of Acetone to every 10 gal of fuel, Diesel or petro, doesn't matter.
It helps the fuel to atomize better, especially petrol with Ethanol in it.
I can see anywhere from 25 to 50 miles per tank more.
Now that's interesting... Won't that promote wear in the injection pump? Would injecting into the intake be more beneficial?
I'm not really sure, we are talking about 3 ounces mixed with 10 gallons, most of it will evaporate almost immediately, but the bi product is making the fuel a little less unstable so it fans out better. I did see a difference, I have 217K miles on my daily and my commute to work, I was getting 4.5 days from a tank, I can now get a full 5 days, after several runs, I can get 25-50 more miles per tank.
This is especially accurate in Gassers as the ethanol added actually makes atomization worse, this basically reverses that problem and still help a little above and beyond that.
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the problem with ethanol, is that it needs about a 9:1 air fuel ratio.. we run about 14.7 on most gassers, or try to..
that ethanol just makes it go lean..
gas jetting does NOT work with ethanol..
ehtanol is JUNK, why would they put it in our gasoline? just to collect water and cause headaches?
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R.O.R. you stated and asked: ethanol is JUNK, why would they put it in our gasoline? Do you not know the spin that is on this one. It is green it is better than fossil fuels and there is a huge, and I do mean huge subsity by the American government to keep it all going. Not what I would call a wise use of the land or the product.
just to collect water and cause headaches? True on both marks, but do you not know that it keeps the oil industry in the payment loop. Sure farmers are growing corn to process into fuel and it keeps them head above water. But wouldn't selling the corn to feed people do the same thing? With everyone around the world asking for food we continue to rotate the crop from food to fuel so we can use the fuel to grow crops. Never mind that it is not a self paying propostion. In that it still requires additional fuel to do the processing over and above the food crop produced.
Popcorn will be scarce at the movies in the future. Rice cakes just don't sound good to me.
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you stated and asked: ethanol is JUNK, why would they put it in our gasoline?
Ethanol burns cleaner, but it does not have the same amount of energy as Petrol and Diesel.
Diesel has 25% more oil than Petrol, hence the reason it can do more work per unit.
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you stated and asked: ethanol is JUNK, why would they put it in our gasoline?
Ethanol burns cleaner, but it does not have the same amount of energy as Petrol and Diesel.
Diesel has 25% more oil than Petrol, hence the reason it can do more work per unit.
wrong.. diesel doesnt have that much more energy than gasoline or ethanol.. maybe 15-20% more at best.. i was reading a table the other day about the available BTUs in different fuels, may have been in diesel power mag, or on here, but anyways, gasoline
~110,000 btu per gallon in gasoline
~130,000 btu per gallon in diesel
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/afv_info.pdf (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/afv_info.pdf)
theres the PDF i got some info from, not the one i was looking for, but it works..
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ehtanol is JUNK, why would they put it in our gasoline? just to collect water and cause headaches?
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Trye,another problem with ehtanol is that if you heat your fuel/line,it`s has low vapor temp so make vapor or aka air bubbles.Some add water to extract ehtanol from RUG for blend only.
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ehtanol is JUNK, why would they put it in our gasoline? just to collect water and cause headaches?
Trye,another problem with ehtanol is that if you heat your fuel/line,it`s has low vapor temp so make vapor or aka air bubbles.Some add water to extract ehtanol from RUG for blend only.
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correct me if im wrong, but you could water wash gasoline, like bio-d, and remove the ethanol?
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I am coming in on this late, and I have done some googling, but I still have some questions.
First up, used motor oil? Obviously the filtering, but did I read that right? Just dumping it straight into the tank? Everything I seen on the YouTube showed some sort of processing. Any info would be appreciated.
2 cycle seems like a very simple thing. Same there, just poor a bottle in?
Thanks guys.
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Yeah on the used motor oil you need to filter. I put new motor oil that's why I didn't filter. If i had the filtering device id be running off that by now
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Trye,another problem with ehtanol is that if you heat your fuel/line,it`s has low vapor temp so make vapor or aka air bubbles.Some add water to extract ehtanol from RUG for blend only.
Easily resolved using the existing fuel pump to pressurize the line...
Diesel may have less energy density, but we get more out of it, because we can run double the compression.
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Yeah on the used motor oil you need to filter. I put new motor oil that's why I didn't filter. If i had the filtering device id be running off that by now
And you are just filtering out the bits. How far down do you go? we talkin 10 or 5 microns? Online I have seen them all heat it but I think its just so its thinner for the filtering.
What ratio do you mix it?
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well, right now i am not running it; as i said in a previous post, i just had a half gallon or so random oil from oil changes (sister bought 5 quarts but car only takes 4) just layin around so i dumped them in.
on the UMO (used motor oil,) i learned from the older model ford idi guys that 85% UMO with 15% RUG (regular unleaded,) filtered to 5 microns should be a sufficient fuel. higher RUG %'s in the winter, to keep it thin enough.
i just never figured a cheap way to collect good UMO (not the random *** you find in a shop oil bucket.. antifreeze, brake fluid, goat vomit, rain) in large #'s, and filter it. i mean i need ~60 gallons a month, and i don't do enough oil changes around the family.
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Trye,another problem with ehtanol is that if you heat your fuel/line,it`s has low vapor temp so make vapor or aka air bubbles.Some add water to extract ehtanol from RUG for blend only.
Easily resolved using the existing fuel pump to pressurize the line...
Diesel may have less energy density, but we get more out of it, because we can run double the compression.
has less energy density than what?
Gasoline, E85, and any other commercially available fuel are much less energy dense than diesel fuel..
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correct me if im wrong, but you could water wash gasoline, like bio-d, and remove the ethanol?
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Yes,and drain from bottom
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Trye,another problem with ehtanol is that if you heat your fuel/line,it`s has low vapor temp so make vapor or aka air bubbles.Some add water to extract ehtanol from RUG for blend only.
Easily resolved using the existing fuel pump to pressurize the line...
Diesel may have less energy density, but we get more out of it, because we can run double the compression.
Yes,but mostly we use closed loop for WMO,with my el.valve number 5 I can swich from closed loop to tank so it`s help.
Tips-temp of disel on return side on 20 c outside is 60 c and that is of corse not heated line.
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you stated and asked: ethanol is JUNK, why would they put it in our gasoline?
Ethanol burns cleaner, but it does not have the same amount of energy as Petrol and Diesel.
Diesel has 25% more oil than Petrol, hence the reason it can do more work per unit.
wrong.. diesel doesnt have that much more energy than gasoline or ethanol.. maybe 15-20% more at best.. i was reading a table the other day about the available BTUs in different fuels, may have been in diesel power mag, or on here, but anyways, gasoline
~110,000 btu per gallon in gasoline
~130,000 btu per gallon in diesel
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/afv_info.pdf (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/afv_info.pdf)
theres the PDF i got some info from, not the one i was looking for, but it works..
I stand corrected. It takes about 25% more crude to make diesel over petrol, not necessarily the content. Hence the difference in price.
Diesel does pack more energy per unit however.
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wmo has more energy than diesel.
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Ill have to do some more reading on the WMO before I go dumping that in the tank. I did however give the 2 cycle a try. It was about 40 miles from filling up so I went ahead and dumped 1/3 of a quart into the tank and than filled it up with the Shell brand diesel. Im interested in its results. I have a little app for my phone that tracks fuel mileage and I will report back if its any different than the norm.
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The only downside to the WMO that i ever saw was one guy made a pitiful YouTube video about it creates ash.. Which I guess gets blown out the tailpipe idk. Filtering is key, and i just didn't have the funds to get storage and filtering, plus like i said you don't want your provider to keep his wmo outside in the rain, or be filling it with anti freeze and every other thing. But it can definitely work I wish like hell i could get a filter, pump and supplier together it could be real free and no mods needed like wvo. Every day people just give away their oil changes they would gladly give it to you. Walmart and autozone allow people to dump up to 10 gallons a day free so they are sitting on TANKFULS like.. Yearly supplies.
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The only downside to the WMO that i ever saw was one guy made a pitiful YouTube video about it creates ash.. Which I guess gets blown out the tailpipe idk. Filtering is key, and i just didn't have the funds to get storage and filtering, plus like i said you don't want your provider to keep his wmo outside in the rain, or be filling it with anti freeze and every other thing. But it can definitely work I wish like hell i could get a filter, pump and supplier together it could be real free and no mods needed like wvo. Every day people just give away their oil changes they would gladly give it to you. Walmart and autozone allow people to dump up to 10 gallons a day free so they are sitting on TANKFULS like.. Yearly supplies.
That is an awesome idea, I am wondering if synthetic oils have the same effect?
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The reason places like Wal*Mart etc take used oil is they do actually recycle it. It gets run through a centrifuge and then they add whatever additives it needs to be brought back in spec. That's where most of the cheaper brands of oil get their supplies. Up here Canadian Tire have their "NuGold" line... Once you have that little tidbit of information you can see why they call it that. It used to be black, they made it "Nu" and "Gold" again. :) With that in perspective, they don't really want to give it away.
You can run WMO up to a certain mix before it starts getting stinky. From what I've read anything beyond 50% will start to smell BAD after it is burned.
Filtration is definitely a big deal. After my last oil change the bottom of my drain pan had a fair bit of sand and grit from the bottom of the car that was knocked loose during the changing process. Wouldn't want to dump that in my tank. I don't think you have to go TOO far if you're only say taking the last 4 liters you drained out and mixing it with 40+L of real diesel - just strain it through a paint filter or a coffee filter or something to keep the bigger pieces out and make sure you are running a good quality fuel filter in the vehicle. If you want to run large quantities of it though then you probably want to invest in a more thorough filtration system.
If you're just blending with regular diesel it isn't going to hurt anything. It will however give you some otherwise "free" fuel and help thicken modern fuel up to closer to the old diesel specifications. It's not like most of you have catalytic converters to worry about or anything like that and as long as it's grit-free it definitely won't hurt the pump or injectors.
I've run various motor oils, auto transmission fluid and parowax in my fuel (not all at once!) without any ill effects. All of them provide additional lubrication for your injection pump. I've heard of someone on here (I think) who was running their car on a 50% mix of diesel and used hydraulic fluid since he was able to get it free from work. IDI engines really aren't picky as long as whatever the fuel is it doesn't eat seals, provides lubrication to the pump, burns and will flow through the injection lines. If you are planning on long term use of the engine, something that doesn't leave bad deposits (ie the glycerin in vegetable oil) is also a plus.
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Anyone tried this stuff yet?
http://www.ecofuelsaver.com/index.html
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this may be of interest on this subject: http://www.transportdurable.qc.ca/document2/Biofuels-special-topics-nrds-374.pdf
Section on diesel reduction of sulfur in Canada.
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reading over the eco fuel saver stuff (BS as far as i can tell, but what did i get a chemistry degree for anyways?) they claim it literally splits carbon chains into shorter ones... i'm skeptical here, I also from a few pages back... still don't buy the "added viscosity in the fuel changes pump pressure/behavior and in turn changes timing" i think it is more likely these different mixes reach flash point at a different compression/temperature point, and that advances/retards timing. I for one would like to see a TDI that monitored its own stroke compression and lambda values along with fuel viscosity/temperature and adjusted injection pattern and pressure accordingly. that would be a truly multi-fuel engine. maybe even two sets of common rail injectors and two pumps off one computer for a two tank setup, one for WVO(or whatever else was around) and the other optimized for regular diesel. now i'm really daydreaming though. :)
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Regarding the Eco Fuel Saver: I'm rather skeptical that adding .5cc of some mystery fluid to a litre of diesel is going to increase my mileage by 25%, but I'm curious enough about it to give one bottle a try. I'm planning on a trip of about 1000 miles in my 93 Dodge Cummins diesel in a couple of weeks, so I'll test it then and post up the results. I guess that's really all the company needs is for everybody to be curious enough to try it once, and they've made their fortune :)
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"Because of its high octane content, ethanol soon established a role as an octane enhancer" THERE IS NO OCTANE IN ETHANOL.
I stopped reading that article after that, whats the point...
and if you read through the Eco-Saver stuff, and actually read the "case studies" they post on their page are less than conclusive, and some even contradict their own claims. One study even shows that there is no significant change in the fuel chemistry, and thats why it doesn't void your warranty, when the whole premise is that it does something significant to your fuel's chemistry.
If its too good to be true it usually is just that...
The testimonials in this thread of the forum prove that these engines will run on pretty much any remotely flammable liquid, as to if any of this is actually good for your engine is up for debate still I guess. My rig costs me enough to maintain without being too brave with what I fill up on, I wish I had tons of money to invest in science experiments and prototype engines, but my ancient impractical vehicles keep bleeding me for all I'm worth ;D
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There's alot to be said for that fact that if you are expecting better mileage or more power, you will somewhat unconsiously adjust your driving habits to produce the desired results. I strongly suspect there's some of this going on with the "Eco Fuel Saver" testimonials. I'll bet most people don't record their fuel consumption over a number of tankfulls, so when they put in some additive and start keeping track, they say "Wow, l got X number of miles on this tankfull. It's really working!"
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There's alot to be said for that fact that if you are expecting better mileage or more power, you will somewhat unconsiously adjust your driving habits to produce the desired results. I strongly suspect there's some of this going on with the "Eco Fuel Saver" testimonials. I'll bet most people don't record their fuel consumption over a number of tankfulls, so when they put in some additive and start keeping track, they say "Wow, l got X number of miles on this tankfull. It's really working!"
I have been keeping a fuel log for as long as I have had a vehicle. Ol' pops recommended it as a way to diagnose trouble early. I used to keep a little note pad and pen and kept a mileage log. Now I have an app on my Android called FuelLog that works great. Simple, easy to use, and the pay version allows you to keep some notes and other stuff.
I dumped a third of a quart of 2 cycle in the tank as mentioned above on a fill up so I am interested in seeing any difference now as the last five fill ups have averaged 28 MPG.
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reading over the eco fuel saver stuff (BS as far as i can tell, but what did i get a chemistry degree for anyways?) they claim it literally splits carbon chains into shorter ones... i'm skeptical here, I also from a few pages back... still don't buy the "added viscosity in the fuel changes pump pressure/behavior and in turn changes timing" i think it is more likely these different mixes reach flash point at a different compression/temperature point, and that advances/retards timing. I for one would like to see a TDI that monitored its own stroke compression and lambda values along with fuel viscosity/temperature and adjusted injection pattern and pressure accordingly. that would be a truly multi-fuel engine. maybe even two sets of common rail injectors and two pumps off one computer for a two tank setup, one for WVO(or whatever else was around) and the other optimized for regular diesel. now i'm really daydreaming though. :)
no dude, thick fuel makes for more advance..
think of it this way.
you have a hole, it is xx inches across, and has xx psi pressure
is it going to be easier for 10w oil to get thru the hole, or easier for 90w oil to get thru the hole?
its easier for the un-treated diesel to get thru the out bolt than the thickened up fuel..
so, in the end, yes, it does make things run better, especially if the pump is soo worn that it cant build enough internal pressure.
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"Because of its high octane content, ethanol soon established a role as an octane enhancer" THERE IS NO OCTANE IN ETHANOL.
Octane is a rating they give to gasoline. The higher the octane number the more resistant to detonation/preignition.
Ethanol has a higher octane rating than any pump gas and most race gas.
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diesel has an octane rating (all be it very low) so why wouldnt ethanol?
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Thanks R.O.R. I so wanted to come back on his use of my statement but NOW I don't have too.
I was thinking of just about the same analogy. Thick fluid needs more pressure to make same volume. Remember the source of the initial information. Chemist not mechanical engineer or guy with a garden hose. Pressure is everything in the Bosch Pump. The manual cites it over and over.
Again Thanks for saving me time and possible embarrassment.
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Regarding the Eco Fuel Saver: I'm rather skeptical that adding .5cc of some mystery fluid to a litre of diesel is going to increase my mileage by 25%, but I'm curious enough about it to give one bottle a try. I'm planning on a trip of about 1000 miles in my 93 Dodge Cummins diesel in a couple of weeks, so I'll test it then and post up the results. I guess that's really all the company needs is for everybody to be curious enough to try it once, and they've made their fortune :)
Just got back tonight from my trip. Ran a tank with straight diesel, and a tank with Eco Fuel Saver. During the first tankful I spent half an hour or so in stop-and-go traffic, and several hours using the AC. Second tank (with additive) was all straight highway. Second tankful mileage was slightly poorer, but pretty much the same as the first tank, so I think it's fairly safe to say the stuff doesn't do anything, which doesn't surprise me at all.
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Regarding the Eco Fuel Saver: I'm rather skeptical that adding .5cc of some mystery fluid to a litre of diesel is going to increase my mileage by 25%, but I'm curious enough about it to give one bottle a try. I'm planning on a trip of about 1000 miles in my 93 Dodge Cummins diesel in a couple of weeks, so I'll test it then and post up the results. I guess that's really all the company needs is for everybody to be curious enough to try it once, and they've made their fortune :)
Just got back tonight from my trip. Ran a tank with straight diesel, and a tank with Eco Fuel Saver. During the first tankful I spent half an hour or so in stop-and-go traffic, and several hours using the AC. Second tank (with additive) was all straight highway. Second tankful mileage was slightly poorer, but pretty much the same as the first tank, so I think it's fairly safe to say the stuff doesn't do anything, which doesn't surprise me at all.
i guarantee my 2 cycle oil was like 5x cheaper, and did about the same thing.. :)
im not running additive to improve mileage, im running it to save my new fuel pump. ;)
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The reason places like Wal*Mart etc take used oil is they do actually recycle it. It gets run through a centrifuge and then they add whatever additives it needs to be brought back in spec. That's where most of the cheaper brands of oil get their supplies. Up here Canadian Tire have their "NuGold" line... Once you have that little tidbit of information you can see why they call it that. It used to be black, they made it "Nu" and "Gold" again. :) With that in perspective, they don't really want to give it away.
You can run WMO up to a certain mix before it starts getting stinky. From what I've read anything beyond 50% will start to smell BAD after it is burned.
Filtration is definitely a big deal. After my last oil change the bottom of my drain pan had a fair bit of sand and grit from the bottom of the car that was knocked loose during the changing process. Wouldn't want to dump that in my tank. I don't think you have to go TOO far if you're only say taking the last 4 liters you drained out and mixing it with 40+L of real diesel - just strain it through a paint filter or a coffee filter or something to keep the bigger pieces out and make sure you are running a good quality fuel filter in the vehicle. If you want to run large quantities of it though then you probably want to invest in a more thorough filtration system.
If you're just blending with regular diesel it isn't going to hurt anything. It will however give you some otherwise "free" fuel and help thicken modern fuel up to closer to the old diesel specifications. It's not like most of you have catalytic converters to worry about or anything like that and as long as it's grit-free it definitely won't hurt the pump or injectors.
I've run various motor oils, auto transmission fluid and parowax in my fuel (not all at once!) without any ill effects. All of them provide additional lubrication for your injection pump. I've heard of someone on here (I think) who was running their car on a 50% mix of diesel and used hydraulic fluid since he was able to get it free from work. IDI engines really aren't picky as long as whatever the fuel is it doesn't eat seals, provides lubrication to the pump, burns and will flow through the injection lines. If you are planning on long term use of the engine, something that doesn't leave bad deposits (ie the glycerin in vegetable oil) is also a plus.
back when i was still young and stupid, i ran 100% wmo in my 81 rabbit 1.5TD, and upon cold start, you would have thought the rings were non-existent, along with the valve seals.. lol.
straight blue smoke for the first few mins of running, the it was fine. you could still tell it was engine oil it was burning tho, driving behind me, even if i wasnt pouring coals..
HOLY CRAP! ive never seen such a smokey fuel.. my car would pour a little trail of black with regular diesel, but with WMO, it would FILL THE ENTIRE HIGHWAY with black as night smoke.. i was amazed at the amount of smoke WMO makes.. guess it just goes along with someone saying that it makes ASH as it burns..
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80-90% for hot weather on hidraulic,wmo or atf no smoke,
but CF,2 tank-only 1.5 lit for disel tank,heated fuel line,looped return etc.
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mtrans:
what did you use to thin the wmo/atf? what was the other 10-20%?
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-up to 3 % ULP
-0.2 % acetone
-0.2 % xilol
- wax or same cetane booster from time to time
rest is ULSD mix by pump for 30 min before going to tank 70 lit, but remember this is also factor:
CF,2 tank-only 1.5 lit for disel tank,heated fuel line,looped return etc.
It`s mostly good WVO setup,I start for WVO but can`t find it and truly I didn`t like that I see.
And this is Fiat IDI NA 2500.
Truly,in sumer he hardly see 15% ULSD.
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I looked at the start of this post and I have not been able to get gulf wax to dissolve in deisel we get here in Can. I research a bit more and found mineral oil is same type of thing only in liquid form. Has anyone tired this. I put about a third of a 500ml bottle in and seems to have made lower rpm cruise and acceleration a bit more quiet than without it. Just wondering if anyone has used it long term and had some drawbacks?
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I research a bit more and found mineral oil is same type of thing only in liquid form.
If this is 2T than OK? One great man told that 2% of wax is OK.Anything more viscous is good,but bit more quiet is ok but not much it's has to be like Disel,quiet=retarded.Step by step,one thing ONLY and watch.
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Well Rodpaslow I can not believe that it is that cold in Canada. You could actually warm the diesel up on an electric plate to get it to say 50 C and drop or shave your wax into it. But honestly if you put a small one gallon can out in the sun with 4 oz of cut up or shaved wax in it the solar heating would do the job for you. Just shake it a bit a few times to get it to go into solution. Are you using hard candles or canning wax. You say gulf wax and that is the brand on the box I use all the time. I keep the gallon in the back of the car as I park it for most of the week and it gets pretty hot in there.
Mineral Oil, yes a subsitute for the thickening and cetane. If I were located above the lower 48 then this is the method I would use. Just downright simple to do. Maybe not as clean if you try and do it without a funnel. As for drawbacks, none that I know of and it may end up being cheaper actually. There seems to be Mineral oil everywhere at a good price and wax seems to have a strange pricing formula. Not sure why.
I have run mineral oil and ATF in the mix as a subsitute for the wax. Mostly because I wanted to try it after reading it did the same thing as the wax. If you put 1/3 of 500 ml in that would be close to 6 oz US measure. I would say you are at the point you need to be. The results are in the way it runs, and it sounds like yours is doing right. The extra thickening you are doing is making up for the lack of pressure your pump was designed to produce with a thicker fuel, #2 diesel, not the ULSD. The boost to mileage and acceleration is gained by the extra cetane in the oil that is processed out of the ULSD fuel. That is why it sounds and runs the way it should.
Enjoy, If you can get a measure on that IP you might be surprised to find where it runs with and without the additive. You wouldn't need a whole tank to figure that out either. Just measure your tank mix and then throw on a gallon at the fuel filter and let it cycle out a bit then back to the source container. There is roughly a liter of fuel in the pump and it takes just about 90 seconds at idle to move that much through the pump if the idle pressure is correct at 43#.
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There seems to be Mineral oil everywhere at a good price and wax seems to have a strange pricing formula. Not sure why.
When i fire waxoil there is 0,00 ash,perhaps is price for.That great man who like his name with little h,has a lot theory about.
No wax if it's cold.
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hagar was all about no ash and no wax when it could gell out on you. He cautioned his Canadian and Maine friends a bunch to watch the temperature if you ran his wax idea.
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Thanks for the reply ORCoaster. I've had the gulf wax in a clear container with about 2 litres of diesel in something like a greenhouse so it gets fairly warm. we are still getting around +20°C (about 70°F) and some of the wax has dissolved, but the majority hasn't so I was very hesitant to add it. The mineral oil was $5.00 for the 500mls and does the same and a lot easier to add. I will likely keep adding this until it starts getting into the minus temps. It will be interesting so see at what temp it gets too thick to add, if it does. I don't have much experience with mineral oil, but so far I definitely hear a difference.
Thanks Again.
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What kind of mineral oil?Both is good for up on viscous,but only wax do cetane boost.
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I was looking through a document last night that I created from hagerisms as I read through his saga. One point I noticed is that he was putting 750 mls of his oil into 20 liters of fuel. So the ratio you are running would be a little on the thin side for his comfort level I think. Maybe not, he mentioned many times that what he does is not what you have to do.
He would also suggest that you take that bottle of mineral oil and just put it in the fridge and then the freezer. Does it solidify in either place? If not you now know it won't do that in your tank either. So try that for an experiment.
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Hagar has meny levels of wax,for test and for use.He told one can drive on pure waxoil but watch on temp,which I didn't try,but I belive him.2% is min he told for ULSD, for our D2 engines but you can use more for your $.
I put mineral oil in the freezer 4 years ago,and as I memory it's not gel but I dont know is it pure oil or mix(easy to try who wants).Disel oil isn't good as petrol oil,or even better here is oil from petrol car driven by
propane kind - oil isn' dark AT ALL it is often yellow kind.
Last winter i drive long trip on 90% on -10c no problem,but on told configuration of car w/o wax ofcorse.
I like hagerisms
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I will give that a try, the freezer thing. I'd like to be able to use it when its cold cause when it gets real cold here; anywhere from -20° to -40° is when it really starts to rattle/clack when the engine is cold. I usually run a bit of gel reducer at the -40 temps just in case, you don't want to be stranded when its that cold. I don't know if that's necessary with ULSD. Thanks for the tips.
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I'd like to be able to use it when its cold cause when it gets real cold here; anywhere from -20° to -40° is when it really starts to rattle/clack when the engine is cold. I usually run a bit of gel reducer
I never put antygel in oil,try first in jar because it's design for ULSD.My max temp is -15c mostly,for drive oil on -40c your car need GOOD MODIFICATION,which by way you didnt say world- please do.
remmember:heated fuel line,looped return etc
you will parhaps need to heat PICK up on tank,or all tank.I start and stop on ULSD,swich to oil on min 60c motor temp.Never mix wmo and wvo,use as mach (only?)atf as you can.
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As for driving in, what I call cold (I know farther north gets colder yet and they have to run a mixture of stuff, not sure what) is between -35°C to -40°. It got about -35° with wind chill at about -50° and I was able to drive without adding any additive to thin the oil just this past winter. I had a diesel 10 to 15 years ago and it would run in that cold of temperature, but back then I had to add a bottle of something to keep it thinner. I think with ULSD I really don't need to. I didn't last winter....
I tried the mineral oil in the freezer. It was a bit thicker than temps now, but nowhere near a freezing point as there were no crystals (which I would expect) if it were near freezing. Good news for using it most of winter up here.
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for drive oil on -40c your car need GOOD MODIFICATION,which by way you didnt say world- please do.
Your plan?
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I think mtrans is looking for some sort of heater on your fuel. That would be nice, but? is it necessary?
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I've ran it with no fuel heater last year and I don't plan to add one. I haven't had a hiccup yet with it so if it works don't change it. The only thing I do have which I'm sure most Canadians don't is two block heaters. When really cold I'm sure this helps. At -20 when it's plugged in for a couple hours the glow plugs don't even come on. I don't think this helps a fuel gelling issue though if it happens.
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I think mtrans is looking for some sort of heater on your fuel. That would be nice, but? is it necessary?
Yes you are on spot.
rodpaslow
Yes this helps,water webasto is another thing even better,but every bit of heat before IP is huge help(after also but hard too).
One can put raw oil and drive but q is how long?
Do you use 2 tank?
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Say you have a Giles Superpump, do you think the paraffin would be a problem because the internal pump pressure is within specs. I see there would be a Cetane and lubrication advantage, but the dynamic timing would get out of spec (maybe)?
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it would probably be overly advanced at some point in the RPM range..
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The Wax treatment is mainly for compensating for wear on the old IP's we run. That and the ULSD fuel we are running. I would think the other methods of increasing cetane might be of value if your pump is within specs at low and high RPM's
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Ya, that's kinda what I was thinking too. So, from a most Cetane stand point, how would you rank what"s out there?
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I'd be interested in best cetane adders as well. I mainly use the mineral oil (parrafin) for the lubrication since ULSD has lost so much of it.
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Good thing is some nitro staff not gas.
You can get 2-ethylhexyl nitrate here http://vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/veggiboost.html (http://vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/veggiboost.html),I can't so it' second hand story.
I'll like some DIY from eazy find hem.
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Anybody tried 2-ethylhexyl nitrate yet? So how many ounces per 10 gal would this be? This could be a great solution, if it's not super expensive.
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It looks like it should work as a cetane improver. http://www.atc-europe.org/public/doc79-2ehn.pdf
I'd give it a try, just where would you get it from?(I'm in Canada)
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Anybody tried 2-ethylhexyl nitrate yet? So how many ounces per 10 gal would this be? This could be a great solution, if it's not super expensive.
You have it all on site up.
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I can't put my hands on,never tryed in pure form 0.1% I use same Winss or same 8+ as they sold to me.
If you try post impresions.
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OOPs sorry, didn't notice the link. Thanks!