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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: adi on April 19, 2011, 12:38:29 pm
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I've done the search, and seen so many conflicting answers, I just want a straight answer. How much boost is safe on a 1.6TD with intercooler? I've seen people running well over 20psi on a standard HG, but then others say 17psi is the limit. Over on the UK TD forum they reckon 25psi should be fine as the 1.6TD engines are strong as hell.
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i used to run 25 psi religiously on my 1.5TD
it has way smaller head bolts than your engine, meaning your engine is tougher than my engine..
i ended up cracking 7 head bolt bosses, almost lost the head off the engine..
i would say that 25 psi is fine, it has been for me.. just dont hold it at 25 psi for an hour at a time.. lol..
the 1.6 n/a (TD CONVERSION) im running, has seen upwards of 30 psi before, on a super long hill @ WOT.. im still running stock 11mm bolts, and fiber gasket..
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Thats good enough for me, tomorrow its going back to around 24psi again. When I got the pump set up reasonably well today, it was boosting at that, and it was an animal! Barely any smoke on boost, lower EGTs, and it sounded AMAZING! Now EGTs are higher, it smokes on boost, and if I keep it planted the coolant temp rises too.
I once had a Citroen ZX 1.9TD (excellent french XUD lump) with a bosch pump running 26psi, that was very quick, and never had a problem. Its just scary when it runs 10psi standard, then all of a sudden your running quite a lot more boost and the guage is reading nearly to the end ;D Makes me a bit wary.
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only thing you might worry about, is blowing a tank off the stock intercooler. idk how much boost the coolers are god for, but i know that the engine will take ~2 bar without many mods.
i would wanna run head studs at 2bar tho..
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Thats 30psi! That is mad. I'd rather risk blowing the IC to bits than the engine. If that happened I'd just wind the boost down a bit and remove it until I found a replacement, which would probably be a dirty great big front mounted jobby. One thing I will say is, when it was peaking at around 25psi earlier, it felt quick, like quicker than a 16v quick!
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29.4psi to be exact. lol 8)
like i say tho, i had to run almost 40 psi to blow the head off my 1.5D..
1.5Ds are way weaker than a 1.6TD.. block wise atleast..
you may blow a head gasket or 2 if you boost it to 35-40 psi.. lol.
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OK, I'm convinced, its going back up to 25psi tomorrow. Its scary how loud the turbo screams though haha
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does it change tones? or just whistles louder? cause if it starts sounding like a supercharger, then you are over spooling it. and i just remembered you have a K14, that turbo isnt very efficient past 20 psi..
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I didn't let it boost over 20psi for long as I was too scared too, but I think it just whistled louder. By "efficient", how do you mean? It definately ran a lot better at high boost and went like a rocket...
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after a certain point, the smaller turbos just pump out hot air.. there is a point where more boost is counter-productive with these small turbos..
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Isn't that where a larger front mounted intercooler would be useful?
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1.2 bar is perfect for the K14.
1.6 bar is good for the K24, if I'm not wrong.
I'm going K24 soon-ish :)
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1.2 bar is perfect for the K14.
1.6 bar is good for the K24, if I'm not wrong.
I'm going K24 soon-ish :)
18-20 psi is right at the top of the K14s efficiency range, iirc.
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How about when I've mounted the intercooler up front? Will that raise the efficiency of the K14 slightly?
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Not really... Get a K24 or a T3 and then you can run high boost pressures :)
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I may consider a T3 if one comes up cheap locally. Are they a straight swap and am I right in thinking the mk3 golf 1.9TDI comes with these?
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They are a straight swap, you only need a new intake hose and oil return line.
The 1.9 came with a K03 turbo which is smaller than the K14. The T3 came with the early Vdub diesels!
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Will a T3 from a ford or jap motor still fit? As they'd be easier to find. I didn't think you could get one much smaller than the T2/K14 lol
edit; like this one for example?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Toyota-Corolla-1-4-T3-D4D-Turbo-Charger-17201-0N010-/200579706146?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2eb37b6d22
or this? I think GTD's have a 4 bolt flange don't they?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/T3-T4-Turbocharger-Turbo-50-A-R-27PSI-/200570204869?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2eb2ea72c5
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The Toyota turbo won't fit; that has a 3-bolt flange.
And T3/T4 turbo doesn't have the exact same mounting pattern as the T3 and K24, and it's made for a gas engine. So unless your car revved to 7,000 rpms, it's pointless.
Just get a T3 or K24 from a MK1 or early MK2 TD ;)
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We didnt get mk1 TD's over here, all the early 1.6 Diesels were N/A, and finding someone breaking an early GTD over here is like looking for chicken's lips :-\ I'd have to find a T3 from another diesel of some kind, with a 4 bolt flange. Anyway, that will wait till later on. I'm going to wind my boost back up tomorrow as it ran so much better and faster ;D
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Ebay Germany has some..
http://cgi.ebay.de/Turbolader-Garrett-VW-1-6-Jetta-Passat-Golf-T2-T3-TOP-/260770323763?pt=Autoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r&hash=item3cb71f5d33#ht_700wt_1139
Get some! :D
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do not go by what boost number is safe, go by egts, if you don't have an egt gauge, get one, if you can't afford 120 dollars for an egt gauge then you can't afford a cracked head, a prechamber dropping, or burnt pistons. simple as that.
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also mercedes t3 is good, depending on what you want
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The 1.6 TD motor going in my Fox project came with a T3. It's from an '85 Quantum, MD engine code. Limited run build, but it was a factory 4-bolt T3.
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The 1.6 TD motor going in my Fox project came with a T3. It's from an '85 Quantum, MD engine code. Limited run build, but it was a factory 4-bolt T3.
you guys are not pointing out the fact about its shape.. its not a normal T3 flange, its a special trapezoidal flange, and VW is the only manufacturer ive seen to use it. and only on the earlier diesels..
you CAN use a mercedes T3 on a regular T3 flanged 8v vw turbo manifold.. custom feed lines, return lines, and all the piping would be necessary.
if you got a K24 from a GTD in germany, it would pretty much be a straight forward swap, AFAIK.. T3 wouldnt even be a bad swap, but i think the feed or return lines are different..
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I'l look into a turbo upgrade when more money comes my way :D
In other news, I've adjusted the MBC today, 24psi peak, lots of power, lots of smiles ;D
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I'l look into a turbo upgrade when more money comes my way :D
In other news, I've adjusted the MBC today, 24psi peak, lots of power, lots of smiles ;D
like was stated, with all that boost, you should get an EGT gauge before you melt something..
24 SHOULDNT melt anything as long as you dont have large amounts of black smoke..
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24 psi is both unefficient and dangerous for your HG.
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Boost won't melt anything, but it will hurt the HG.
If you are not intercooled and live in a climate that gets over 40 degress F then I would lower that boost.
Don't touch the fuel unless you have an EGT or that will melt stuff.
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As mentioned before, my EGTs are fine, I get a fine haze on boost, and the whole point of this thread was to see if this kind of boost would hurt my HG or not. So it seems I'm still getting conflicting information ::)
Also I do have an intercooler, and I'd hardly say the UK was a warm climate ;)
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Couple of things here - I have a T2 running 10psi, and can easy see over 600C EGT with NO HAZE/SOOT at all...
I have a T3 off an early mk2 and a T2 off and early AAZ (mk3 golf), they both have what I assume is the trapezoidal flange, both will fit my exhaust manifold.
I also have a KKK turbo off of a late aaz... it's about the size of a garden snail! :o
PM me a decent offer if you want the T3...
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if you have a haze on boost, then you have got some hot EGTs im gonna say..
you need a gauge plain and simple..
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Would you call 800degrees C too hot on a hard blast?
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I wouldn't want to do that. If I calculated correctly that is about 1,500F aluminum melts at 1,200 F I have only taken my engine to 1,500 F one time just to see if it would slow down the EGT rise once it was hotter. It didn't and I let off.
I would say 1,200F is ver conservative and you won't melt anything down. 1,300F is reasonable and you will probably not get into trouble. 1,400F is pushing it and anything more is too much for more than .5 second.
20psi with stock gasket and stock bolts is a safe level. Over maybe fine, maybe not, but 20psi should be safe with stock stuff.
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If you have enough fuelling to support 24psi, and still have a haze on boost.. There is going to damage done. That's wayy hot, most likely because 24psi air is hot to begin with, the ic isn't efficient enough to deal with that hot of air. I think you'd find more power with less boost, as it will be a cooler charge, therefore more air. You might even clear up the on boost haze.
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1472F to be exact :D
That's way too high unless, like lucas said, you only do it for .5 seconds. It would still make me cringe a little.....
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Normally when its hit full boost I change gear straight away though. And when I'm in 5th giving it beans it will hit 24psi then go straight back down to like 22psi. Is this normal?
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I'd always advise no more than 15psi on a stock motor, I've seen them lift heads and start the HG weeping over 15,
A mate runs 30psi in his stocker with no problems, he's on his 3rd or 4th gearbox though.
When I sold my 30,000 mile GTD it was pegged at 15 psi, the new owner wanted more power and I told him he could up the boost but on his head be it......the truck was on ebay a month later with a blown engine. :'(
My new GTD will aim for 30 psi but that's got ARP studs, a metal AAZ gasket and a block girdle.
I've seen a lot of 1.6 TDs and GTDs through my workshop - only ever seen one with a K24 fitted all the rest ran T2 or K14s
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I'd always advise no more than 15psi on a stock motor, I've seen them lift heads and start the HG weeping over 15,
A mate runs 30psi in his stocker with no problems, he's on his 3rd or 4th gearbox though.
When I sold my 30,000 mile GTD it was pegged at 15 psi, the new owner wanted more power and I told him he could up the boost but on his head be it......the truck was on ebay a month later with a blown engine. :'(
My new GTD will aim for 30 psi but that's got ARP studs, a metal AAZ gasket and a block girdle.
I've seen a lot of 1.6 TDs and GTDs through my workshop - only ever seen one with a K24 fitted all the rest ran T2 or K14s
This may be a dumb question (and off topic) but what is a block girdle supposed to do specifically?
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It reinforces the main caps where the crank is held into the block. It spreads the load out to the edges of the block so you don't split your block from crazy boost. Many aluminum block engines come with them stock...
http://www.vwcaddy.com/showpost.php?s=4fb0c7b37dd6ab5bddde9eb80c866399&p=408841&postcount=18
The girdle is the big plate. I'll be doing mine when I throw ARP hardware through my motor. I was amazed to see the 1.9 has floating 2-bolt mains, I thought they'd at least be wedged to the edges of the block...
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Cheers for the link, ;D
They are also here (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=27133.0)I have a couple left and then no more.
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It reinforces the main caps where the crank is held into the block. It spreads the load out to the edges of the block so you don't split your block from crazy boost. Many aluminum block engines come with them stock...
http://www.vwcaddy.com/showpost.php?s=4fb0c7b37dd6ab5bddde9eb80c866399&p=408841&postcount=18
The girdle is the big plate. I'll be doing mine when I throw ARP hardware through my motor. I was amazed to see the 1.9 has floating 2-bolt mains, I thought they'd at least be wedged to the edges of the block...
Ahh that sorta what I figured. thanks for the info
Cheers for the link, ;D
They are also here (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=27133.0)I have a couple left and then no more.
How fast is the shipping usually take to canada reg? If you have snet one here before that is :)
Has it been tested on an AAZ yet for fitment? I think this might be nessesary for my compound build..
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How fast is the shipping usually take to canada reg? If you have snet one here before that is
Has it been tested on an AAZ yet for fitment? I think this might be nessesary for my compound build..
Never sent to Canada - to the US it was there inside 5 working days
It fits the AAZ fine, some fitments (TDI - ALH I think) have needed a light tickle with a grinder on the web around the oil pump, but nothing major.
Seven have been shipped out of the ten made and that has been the only fitment issue that I am aware of.
Also be aware that the girdles are straight from the laser cutter with no extra cleanup, they may have rough edges and small pieces of slag from the cutting process, so may need a slight clean up if that kind of thing is important to you. This is reflected in the price - you could pay 2 or 3 times more for a shiney finished one.