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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: stewardc on December 09, 2010, 04:09:41 am

Title: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: stewardc on December 09, 2010, 04:09:41 am
This is a Rocco diesel street/drag car that a friend has. He split 3 main bearing caps last year turning a 13.5(and drove it home) and this year is getting real serious.

http://www.customobsessions.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=34279
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: theman53 on December 09, 2010, 05:17:13 am
WOW Is that TDI or 1.9IDI? Said he used the TDI crank. I saw the back of the head and IP, but couldn't tell from what I read. Either way amazing.
EDIT: title says AAZ...I think I can figure it out from there.
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: MJF on December 09, 2010, 07:10:30 am
Very intresting, nice body too 8)
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: rallydiesel on December 09, 2010, 12:02:34 pm
Did he machine the block to clearance the tdi rods? Looks like he did. Nice build but needs some numbers besides boost.
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: RadoTD on December 10, 2010, 09:50:30 am
Oh wow, that is nuts. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on that thread!
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: stewardc on December 10, 2010, 10:06:21 am
As you already figured out, he's built an AAZ. The block had to be machined to clear the rods, and the stud girdle had to be modified to clearance the rod bolts. He did lower the compression to 20:1 by machining the stock pistons, but the high boost which did all the havoc on the old block didn't bother the previously used pumpe deuse rods at all.
The engine is almost finished now and the first stop will be the local dyno operator, once it gets 1000-2000 km on the build.
I can't wait to see the results.
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: RadoTD on December 10, 2010, 10:13:27 am
So when he was running 45psi, was that on PD rods, machined pistons and 20:1 compression? Also, his new main caps.. did he machine those himself?
Anything else out of the ordinary done to keep the engine bolted together. And, of course, was it ever dyno'd? 13.5 in a Scirocco would be 250+, right?
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: MJF on December 10, 2010, 10:34:06 am
13.5 in a Scirocco would be 250+, right?

Less than 200 is enough in lightweight mk1 with good start. Iīm more intrested of trap speed, that will tell the power. And dyno of course :)
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: stewardc on December 10, 2010, 10:44:52 am
At blowup time, it was stock AAZ crank (undamaged), Pumpe deuse rods (undamaged) and stock 22:1 pistons.
The new main caps are shop-made and, of course, ARP fasteners throughout.
I think the trap speed wqas 114 mph.
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: dirtydiesel on December 13, 2010, 05:03:34 am
i had the rocco running last night . runs fine with the new oil cooler and lines the engine now holds 6.5L of oil. new tv headlights are on the way too. from a 74 and early 75 scirocco. ;D
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on December 13, 2010, 08:22:03 am
i had the rocco running last night . runs fine with the new oil cooler and lines the engine now holds 6.5L of oil. new tv headlights are on the way too. from a 74 and early 75 scirocco. ;D

so, i take it you are the owner?
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: dirtydiesel on December 13, 2010, 11:15:45 am
yes thats me. getting my custom turbo drain line made today ;)
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: MJF on December 13, 2010, 12:22:44 pm
So, since the owner is here. What was dyno numbers and trap speed with old setup? :)
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on December 13, 2010, 12:26:48 pm
yes thats me. getting my custom turbo drain line made today ;)

have any pictures of the turbo setup that makes that much boost?

we LOVE pictures! ;D
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: RadoTD on December 13, 2010, 01:11:42 pm
Haha yes, the more info the better! Keep updating on this forum, we'll all be watching!
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: dirtydiesel on December 13, 2010, 01:49:58 pm
never got it dynoed i kept breaking stuff. but i can say i will dyno it as soon as the block is broken in. the trap speed with a launch from 2000 rpm (didn't want to break anything drove the car to the track 250km drive) :). the trap speed was 103mph i plan on dumping the clutch at 4500 rpm this summer  and getting good 60 foots. gotta go for broke now. goal is low 12's with slicks and weld racing rims and lots of practice at the track to get dialed in.

the turbo is a t3t4 hybrid. no big brand name bushing type turbo. cold side AR 50 and hot side AR 48.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jehson_/5244819555/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jehson_/5244819555/)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jehson_/5245352242/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jehson_/5245352242/)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jehson_/5239832782/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jehson_/5239832782/)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jehson_/5239232075/in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jehson_/5239232075/in/photostream/)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jehson_/5239779612/in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jehson_/5239779612/in/photostream/)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jehson_/4445576971/in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jehson_/4445576971/in/photostream/)

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/1927/img02861.jpg)

(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3451/img02781.jpg)

(http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/7682/img02801.jpg)

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8784/img00971.th.jpg) (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/img00971.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: dirtydiesel on December 13, 2010, 02:21:34 pm
So, since the owner is here. What was dyno numbers and trap speed with old setup? :)

I never got dyno numbers as no one in my area had the equipment to dyno a diesel.

my trap speed was 103mph.

launches were at about 1500rpm(a very light launch so i didn't break anything..)

but with 45 PSI out of this turbo i ended up breaking things anyway.

new numbers soon, and more track times after this canadian winter is over.
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: vanagonturbo on December 13, 2010, 08:13:28 pm
Nice to see another rocco TD built! Keep up the good work man! :beer:

here is a shot of mine:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/2manvr6/p1010003.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/2manvr6/P1010045.jpg)
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: vanagonturbo on December 13, 2010, 10:11:38 pm
(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3451/img02781.jpg)


just noticed this pic. I am not sure if you knew it or not but the engine mount has been installed upside down in the bracket..
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: MJF on December 13, 2010, 11:50:25 pm
So, since the owner is here. What was dyno numbers and trap speed with old setup? :)

I never got dyno numbers as no one in my area had the equipment to dyno a diesel.

my trap speed was 103mph.

launches were at about 1500rpm(a very light launch so i didn't break anything..)

but with 45 PSI out of this turbo i ended up breaking things anyway.

new numbers soon, and more track times after this canadian winter is over.

You got same speed that I got with my Scirocco :) That was with sloooww 2,4 60 feet with street tires and no traction... Time was 14,5 then... Here is one start at that day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHGeFUcBda4
Why so huge boost? You can get nosmoke power with lower boost. 
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: Smokey Eddy on December 14, 2010, 12:36:48 am
Big turbos aren't complicated. i want to know how you're fuelling it because im at the limit on my pump right now...
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: dirtydiesel on December 14, 2010, 03:27:28 pm
I have a super Giles pump with a 12 mm head . 3 inch custom built exhaust  by me and Lindsay . No waste gate and no smoke just a light gray haze , Giles built my pump for boosted fueling 40 psi plus  to achieve a smokeless burn .
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: MJF on December 15, 2010, 12:30:50 am
Why are you not using wastegate ??? Iīd say youīll get same power with ~30psi and not breaking everything with that huge boost ::)  What does your Scirocco weigh? Mine was heavy with 02A transmission, full interior etc, 2120lbs... Did you have slicks with that 13,5s run? Doesnīt that mesh in turbo inlet limit airflow?
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: dirtydiesel on December 15, 2010, 03:32:17 am
the air flow meter screen is my air filter. and my car became very explosive from 38 psi and on. it did not have the same pull with only 30psi boost, so i got rid of the waste gate and tried it out and was pleasantly surprised. One more thing with my boost at 45psi my EGT is only 1300 thats the hotest i can get it. so it was a much needed thing to do.if you can match your fueling to your boost go for it. i always say. My car with street tires when i hit boost in 2nd and 3rd gear the car will spin until i shift it or fuel cut hits what ever i do first. the giles cam shaft regrind and the higher boost made it come to life the way i want it.
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: MJF on December 15, 2010, 04:41:58 am
Maybe it was becouse pump didn't give full fuel until 45psi? That was just my experience from 200whp idi, got more power when dropped boost from 33psi to 29psi. Ofcourse, that was only from buttdyno, didnīt make to wheeldyno before it exploded...
Have you measured EMP?
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: RadoTD on December 15, 2010, 07:33:32 am
I don't know why some of you keep saying you'll make more power on less boost? Assuming his turbo is efficient enough at that pressure ratio, more boost will shove more air into the cylinder. Yes, it takes power to compress that, but you do get most of the energy of the compression back
Why wouldn't more boost make more power?
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: theman53 on December 15, 2010, 08:10:56 am
I am trying to get my head around it. I think it has to do with higher pressure will "sometimes" mean that the air is hotter coming in, even intercooled. Hotter the air the less volume of O2 in it. That would translate into less room to fuel so less power. Sounds like OP above hadn't got to that point yet :D
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: Aki-76 on December 15, 2010, 08:27:13 am
jep,less boost donīt mean less power all time... :)
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: dirtydiesel on December 15, 2010, 07:11:31 pm
True my water meth made a huge difference when I went to the second largest nozzle . Wow is all I can say.
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: MJF on March 13, 2011, 10:51:40 am
Is new engine running yet?
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: ibizz on March 15, 2011, 10:19:51 am
how manny hp and turbe pressure do aaz handle with ?
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on March 15, 2011, 11:19:12 am
how manny hp and turbe pressure do aaz handle with ?

His AAZ, and a normal AAZ are totally different animals..

his is capable of probably 50-60psi, and probably close to, or over 300hp..

he has billet machined main caps and ARP studs holding the crankshaft in that thing..
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: ibizz on March 15, 2011, 04:06:06 pm
i notice

but he his talking about the dead engine , i thinking that he takes the aaz stuff to max and now rebuild a new  super aaz
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on March 16, 2011, 08:48:16 am
i notice

but he his talking about the dead engine , i thinking that he takes the aaz stuff to max and now rebuild a new  super aaz

still tho, what he blew the bottom end up at, most people could only dream of doing..

you will blow the head off your engine before you make it crap the crank.. there was never anything stock about his AAZ.. thats what im saying..

an AAZ can handle around 30 psi reliably, about what a 1.6 can do with some mods.

if you want any more than 30 psi, you better have the pump that can inject that much fuel, and have the dollars for all the parts it takes to make it happen..

the only thing stock about his engine, is not much..
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: stewardc on March 16, 2011, 09:05:17 am
the only thing stock about his engine, is not much..

Stock block (relieved for rod clearance) and stock head (ported). The original engine had stock PD rods which were still OK.
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: ibizz on March 16, 2011, 09:11:30 am
ok

thanks for info

and keep the good work
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on March 16, 2011, 09:15:27 am
the only thing stock about his engine, is not much..

Stock block (relieved for rod clearance) and stock head (ported). The original engine had stock PD rods which were still OK.

i rest my case.. thats not many stock parts.. just about enough parts to still get away with calling it a VW.. everything else is custom..
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: RadoTD on March 16, 2011, 08:43:04 pm
Was anything special done to keep the head from blowing off of the block? I'm surprised he wasn't warping it with each run
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: stewardc on March 17, 2011, 04:18:16 am
the only thing stock about his engine, is not much..

Stock block (relieved for rod clearance) and stock head (ported). The original engine had stock PD rods which were still OK.

i rest my case.. thats not many stock parts.. just about enough parts to still get away with calling it a VW.. everything else is custom..

This is very strange thinking. Block, head, crank, rods and pistons, stock. There's very little else in an engine.
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: ibizz on March 17, 2011, 04:49:30 am
what is crafted in your block ?

1.9td ?
d ?
d/td ?

looking forward to see that engine breathing
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: stewardc on March 17, 2011, 05:05:50 am
what is crafted in your block ?

1.9td ?
d ?
d/td ?

looking forward to see that engine breathing

I'm unsure what you want here. It's a standard AAZ 1.9 TD block and head. It is NOT a TDI.
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: ibizz on March 17, 2011, 03:27:06 pm

becouse my engine is 1y atmosferic and says the same 1.9 td

not comparing nothing , just confirming that 1y aaz and even some later tdis ive the same kind of block
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: Vitwagen on March 17, 2011, 03:57:37 pm

becouse my engine is 1y atmosferic and says the same 1.9 td

not comparing nothing , just confirming that 1y aaz and even some later tdis ive the same kind of block


I have 2 AAZ blocks (both have engine number starting AAZ) one is embossed with '1.9TD' the other has '1.9D/TD'.

Is that what you were asking? the '1.9D/TD' block is a later casting (or at least, from a younger car)
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: ibizz on March 17, 2011, 06:30:07 pm
i ask what crafted in that aaz block

becouse ive crafted 1.9td in the block of my 1y that is atmosferic (some 1y ive block crafted with d/td and with d)
and aaz its comon be crafted 1.9td and d/td
and ive seen some tdi with the same 1.9td and d/td

ive make that kind of questions becouse i wont to put vnt in and new pump and some port
and im try to know if at least the block is the same or handle the same as 1 aaz

for the diference of hp
i think they re the same

not shure internals ..

sorry if doing messing your topic
Title: Re: AAZ - Rocco superbuild
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on March 18, 2011, 02:23:29 pm
dude, just build your engine, i had a VNT on a 1.5D.. they are the weakest VW diesel ever..

you are not in any danger of grenading your engine.. build it, run it around 20 psi.. good to go.