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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: RAMMSTEIN on July 07, 2004, 10:09:09 pm

Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: RAMMSTEIN on July 07, 2004, 10:09:09 pm
I've heard about the A2 having an optional auto box.

Is this true? :?:

Someone told me it was so slow you could run faster... :shock:
Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: BlackTieTD on July 07, 2004, 10:37:43 pm
i seem to remember driving an automatic diesel mkII when i was at the dealership... but i could be full of *** or just tired.. if they were an option, they are incredibly rare.
Title: Yup....
Post by: addautomotive on July 08, 2004, 06:52:31 am
A few years ago I was looking for a good (or not too bad) used car, and saw an ad for a Jetta Diesel nearby. Didn't think to ask if it was a standard, because I thought they all were. Not this one. Automatic, and if I recall, it wasn't even turbocharged. I took it for a spin just for the novelty. The only thing it would have been able to pass was Vanagon diesels and iceflows. Scary.

So yes, they do/did exist.
Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: type53b_gtd on July 08, 2004, 07:29:52 am
You could get an 85 or 86 normally aspirated diesel Jetta with a 3 speed automatic.

Thankfully, few people did... :)
Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: RAMMSTEIN on July 08, 2004, 08:47:39 am
Thanks for the replies guys! :D

I guess the bicycle pedals were standard on this one if you wanted to pass! :wink:
Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: TDIMeister on July 08, 2004, 10:01:38 am
There's also a Mk1 Jetta turbo diesel that had an automatic with an "E-gear."  Basically is was the same (crappy) 3-speed automatic with no lock-up torque converter, but the different with the E-gear was when you're idling in gear the transmission would disengage so as to not put any load on the engine, the premise being to save fuel  :roll: .  I think this disengagement also happened when coasting in gear.

I know about this because we looked into buying one such car many moons ago.
Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: VWRacer on July 08, 2004, 12:12:26 pm
Geez...to think of the silly extremes VW used to go to to sell cars. But can we get them to add a .50 OD gear? Heck no! :evil:  :roll:
Title: e gear
Post by: addautomotive on July 08, 2004, 02:45:49 pm
Now that you mention it... I think there was a "coasting" E gear on teh car I drove. It was a Mk II.
Title: Re: e gear
Post by: BlackTieTD on July 09, 2004, 08:41:34 am
Quote from: "addautomotive"
Now that you mention it... I think there was a "coasting" E gear on teh car I drove. It was a Mk II.


is that with a manual transmission?

edit: removed my endless banter.
Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: addautomotive on July 09, 2004, 09:59:35 am
it was an automatic
Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: scopefrfd on July 15, 2004, 06:38:26 pm
my friend had a 83 rabbit automatic with the e tranny.  When you were on the highway and you were coasting downhill the tranny would let the engine drop down to idle to save on fuel.   It was actually a very fun car to drive.
Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: TDIMeister on July 20, 2004, 12:46:38 pm
Except a Diesel engine is still burning fuel to maintain idle while it is not burning any when coasting (i.e. being driven), making the whole exercise counter-productive from a fuel-economy standpoint...
Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: chrissev on July 20, 2004, 04:10:40 pm
Quote from: "TDIMeister"
Except a Diesel engine is still burning fuel to maintain idle while it is not burning any when coasting (i.e. being driven), making the whole exercise counter-productive from a fuel-economy standpoint...


They use almost no fuel when they idle.  They are great in traffic jams because you sit there and use next to no fuel, and hours can pass without your fuel gauge moving at all, while everyone else is running out of gas.  When they are at speed and connected to the road, the diesels use more fuel than when they are idling, even if there is no power being applied to the wheels by the engine, simply because the engine is reving faster so injection is happening more often.
Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: VWRacer on July 20, 2004, 04:16:47 pm
Quote from: "TDIMeister"
Except a Diesel engine is still burning fuel to maintain idle while it is not burning any when coasting (i.e. being driven), making the whole exercise counter-productive from a fuel-economy standpoint...

I know that TDIs do that, TDIMeister, but don't the old IDI engines still inject a small amount of fuel while coasting?

Stan
Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: QuickTD on July 20, 2004, 04:45:28 pm
Quote
but don't the old IDI engines still inject a small amount of fuel while coasting?


If they do continue to inject fuel on the overrun it would be a very tiny amount. With your foot off the pedal and the engine spinning fast the governor flyweights will overcome the governor spring tension and push the quantity adjuster all the way back. In this position the injected quantity will be minimal.
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: chrissev on August 03, 2004, 06:22:40 pm
Quote from: "RAMMSTEIN"
I've heard about the A2 having an optional auto box.

Is this true? :?:

Someone told me it was so slow you could run faster... :shock:


It is true, and here is the proof:  http://www.trader.ca/Search/Details.asp?mknm=771&Region=&subcategory=&CAT=1

...sorry, link doesn't work.  Anyway, it is an ad in the Canadian Auto trader:  Here it is (minus the picture):

Year: 1986
Make: VOLKSWAGEN
Model: JETTA
Model Detail:
Price: $1,400
Mileage: ------- km
Date: 8/3/04
Ad Type: Private

1986 VW JETTA DIESEL AUTOMATIC
Comment: Diesel auto, very few made, good body, well maint., rebuilt motor and many new parts incl. new Roadgear CD/stereo w/Pioneer spkrs, needs trans. work, e-test and ran well until end of 2003, asking $1,400 as is obo. (905)304-0031 (CLTHFB)

Try this link and if it works, click on the blue 1986 Jetta:  http://search.trader.ca/Results.asp?BFROM=1&BAD=Y&BPRICE=Y&BTYPE=B&BCAT=1&BOREGION=-1&BYEAR1=&BYEAR2=&BPRICE1=1&BPRICE2=1500&BKEYWORD=&BMAKE=771&BMODEL=&q1=%3D+1&c1=@category&q3=771&c3=@makeid&q5=&c5=@adcopy&q6=&c6=@year&q7=%3E%3D+1+and+%3C%3D+1500&c7=@askprice&q10==Y%20or%20@newad=Y&c10=@askchanged&SortBy=askprice&SortOrder=d&DisplayType=pictures&DisplayRowCount=48&mknm=771&mdnm=&q14=&c14=@subcategory&subcategory=&CAT=1
Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: BlackTieTD on August 04, 2004, 01:10:04 am
wow. $1400 for an '86 not running that needs a gearbox. ya, all over that  :roll:
Title: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: chrissev on August 05, 2004, 06:31:28 pm
Quote from: "BlackTieTD"
wow. $1400 for an '86 not running that needs a gearbox. ya, all over that  :roll:


yeah, I'd never buy it for that price.  Maybe for $500, if it would be easy to get it running again, then put a 5spd in it to make it liveable.
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: blackbird82 on January 28, 2011, 06:10:48 am
any diesel running a bosch pump, when being driven by the wheels moving the governor faster will inject no fuel.

at that point your foot is off the throttle putting no pressure on the springs pulling agaisnt the spill collar controlling fuel amount.
the governor is spinnin like mad cause its bein driven by the car coasting, overpowering the throttle spring
so it pulls the spill collar back into cut-off. as soon as the car slows or you put your foot into it, spring pressure increases and fueling resumes.

just remember engine speed is  controlled battle between a spring and a spinng top!
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: blackbird82 on January 28, 2011, 06:13:23 am
I used to in the shop and at school have a diesel injection timing light that clips on the injection line and measures timing like a gasser, when injection happens
WHen we revved an engine up, and a lot of them did this, VW, CAT, Deere you saw the injections happen faster. but if we full throttled them and let them fall to idle, the timing flashes stopped. no fuel injected when the engine is falling to idle.
was very cool
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: theman53 on January 28, 2011, 11:30:08 am
7 year old bump...that could be a record
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 28, 2011, 01:19:55 pm
My woman's car has the 010 3spd auto behind a 1.8L and it does alright. I think it would honestly make a great trans for behind an aaz..
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on January 28, 2011, 01:34:27 pm
i wouldnt use an 010 in factory trim.. i would find a transmission assembly (not the whole transaxle) out of an Audi 5k.. they got 5 clutches in each pack instead of 3 like a rabbit/jetta trans..
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 28, 2011, 01:47:29 pm
Not saying behind a modified crazy aaz, just stock.

But I see what you mean
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on January 29, 2011, 09:50:36 am
yea, but i think they are pretty marginal for even a gasser. i wouldnt wanna know how long they last with an engine in front of them that actually makes some torque..
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 29, 2011, 12:21:09 pm
Well her 90 has the 1.8L.. It makes the same if not more torque than the 1.9aaz (at around 105-107ft.lbs)..

The AAZ just makes it a lot lower down, and this tranny is a long geared beast. It would do well, because its constantly in the 21-3000 range as it is.
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: RabbitJockey on January 29, 2011, 04:14:53 pm
i know they made both mk1 and mk2 automatic diesels, i had a mk1 automatic diesel, it was a great car, the transmission was geared a little bit low for the highway, but it still got great mileage, and was a breeze to drive, i regret selling it actually, it was a great car really.  i really really wish i still had it haha
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: RabbitJockey on January 29, 2011, 04:18:30 pm
yeah 010 is actually a really good trans, just doesn;t have any aftermarket support cause vw people don't like automatics the way muscle car people do.  i used to power break mine and stuff, it always shifted firm and never slipped, same with my gfs cabriolet, it has 170k on it, and shift firm and smooth and never slips, i used to do burn outs in her cabby and stuff.  just a good solid trans imo
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: mattbondy on January 31, 2011, 07:22:19 am
I bought a black 86 Jetta 1.6 NA with an automatic here in Ontario a couple of years ago. The inside of the trunk, the engine bay, and the sun roof were blue. I wonder if it was the same car (as the auto trader post at the beginning of this page).

It was a complete rip off. Supposedly had a complete braking system and engine overhaul. In the two years I owned it the brakes failed about half a dozen times (master cylinder, both rear wheel cylinders, proportioning valve connected to the rear suspension, broken brake lines, and front discs - inner surfaces were coated in rust and just disintegrated one day). Luckily because of that slushbox I never went on the freeway...

After two years it had so much blowby that it would run away if I tried to go over 60 km/h...
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on January 31, 2011, 12:12:56 pm
Well her 90 has the 1.8L.. It makes the same if not more torque than the 1.9aaz (at around 105-107ft.lbs)..

The AAZ just makes it a lot lower down, and this tranny is a long geared beast. It would do well, because its constantly in the 21-3000 range as it is.

ok, well, im talking that if i used one, i would use the audi trans pack, and i WOULD NOT be putting a stock engine in front of it..

my 1.6 makes more torque than any stock gasser engine.
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: RabbitJockey on January 31, 2011, 02:07:38 pm
tyler built his mom an automatic aaz mk1 jetta with no turbo tho
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: Laurentian on February 02, 2011, 07:18:19 am
A guy I knew had one new from dealer back in '86 and yes it was blue in and out.
He had a set-up with the dealer where they would come over and boost / start
the car free of charge when it would not fire up.
The guy did not keep it very long, his first and last VW.
Seems everyone had a VW back in the late eighties...
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: 8v-of-fury on February 02, 2011, 08:08:34 am
Yeah I remember seeing tylers moms car in there for the disection when I picked up a 1.9 head off of him. I wonder how that turned out?

Vw In the 80's was the car to have ;)

I am so gonna put an aaz in front of an automatic :) maybe the 01M though.. That extra gear would be nice lol.
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: BigVWman on February 02, 2011, 01:37:50 pm
we did an idi auto 81 4door red rabbit for my mom back in the early 80's. She never did get the hang of a manual trans. It was slow but reliable.NOT a freeway car by any means. She drove it for years till the HG failed for the third time and we upgraded her to a gasser cabriolet. The 010 is a fairly strong trans there is a guy on vortex running one on a turbo gasser making quite a bit of power and says its bulletproof. They are simple and not much to go wrong in them! You can always add the clutches to make it similar to the audi5k, i think the vanagon 010 also had extra clutches.
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 02, 2011, 01:52:01 pm
we did an idi auto 81 4door red rabbit for my mom back in the early 80's. She never did get the hang of a manual trans. It was slow but reliable.NOT a freeway car by any means. She drove it for years till the HG failed for the third time and we upgraded her to a gasser cabriolet. The 010 is a fairly strong trans there is a guy on vortex running one on a turbo gasser making quite a bit of power and says its bulletproof. They are simple and not much to go wrong in them! You can always add the clutches to make it similar to the audi5k, i think the vanagon 010 also had extra clutches.

where do u live, this sounds like my old car
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: truckinwagen on February 02, 2011, 01:56:50 pm
never had a vw idi on a vw automatic, but I can say this about the IDI isuzu mated to an aisin warner automatic

I never thought I would like an automatic, and with the stock motor it was a real turd, but now that I have it making more power, I kinda like the auto

no loss of power for shifts(it actually accellerates faster during a shift) and you can load the drivetrain at a stop making takeoff much faster.
with a turbo, you could actually spool it while stopped, eliminating turbo lag issues from a stop, and since you stay in the throttle during shifts(hard in the throttle) you wont loose any boost in between gears.

I still like manual transmissions for the added control they give, but for going fast in a straight line nothing beats a well setup auto!

-Owen
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: rabbitman on February 02, 2011, 07:56:08 pm
I've alway liked autos better when they had a powerfuller engine hooked to it.. A gutless engine with an auto tranny is miserable to drive.....
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: catlin_cava on February 04, 2011, 02:47:23 am
I will contribute to this 7 year bump!

I KNOW OF ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1988 Jetta Coupe(I am actually in the process of buying it for a project ;)) 1.6N/A AUTOMATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SLOW AS @#$#@#()* But he gets more MPG then my TDI lol
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: BigVWman on February 04, 2011, 08:04:28 am

where do u live, this sounds like my old car

Back then I lived in Saint Clair Shores Michigan!
Currently apex nc
Are the fella that bought it by chance?
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 04, 2011, 08:45:55 am

where do u live, this sounds like my old car

Back then I lived in Saint Clair Shores Michigan!
Currently apex nc
Are the fella that bought it by chance?

possibly it was a red 1983 factory automatic, red interior, i a trying to think of thngs that made it unique, had a smashed up rear drivers side arch, 4 button wheel, i have pictures actually, someone put a brand new amc head on it.  when i pulled the head off after a fatal run away i had, there were valve indents in the pistons from a previous incident.
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 04, 2011, 06:39:30 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/Trev0rbr/P9160273.jpg)
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 04, 2011, 06:43:05 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/Trev0rbr/P9160276.jpg)
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on February 05, 2011, 08:38:10 am
thats a late 83 ^  ^  ^

its got the plastic a pillar trim.. and it looks like the close bumper brackets..
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 05, 2011, 09:08:49 am
it also had a low water level sensor, factory oil cooler like a td, and a bunch of plastic cold air intake *** around the radiator like a td.  i am pretty sure the bumpers had shocks in them tho
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 05, 2011, 09:11:37 am
u can see the shocks, had a soda bottle on there cause of the run away issues

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/Trev0rbr/DSCN0042.jpg)
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on February 05, 2011, 09:54:02 am
damn, water level sensor? thats cool.. my 84 dont even have one.. but it has the plastic around the radiator. and my car has all the appropriate 84 garb.. even the shift boot under the car still!
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: Laurentian on February 08, 2011, 04:27:17 pm
What's the deal with the bumper shocks?
My '79 1.5D Rabbit had them !
I could see where they had been stroked
 by the scuffed paint HaHa
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 08, 2011, 06:57:20 pm
they're shocks in the bumpers to absorb impacts, thats all.  84 cars for some reason didnt have them
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: BigVWman on February 09, 2011, 04:07:20 pm
we're checking to see what year it was for certain. Is that mars red or royal red?
Title: Re: Automatic IDI, myth or reality
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 09, 2011, 08:03:48 pm
it was definitely an 83 model year, i think it was royal red cause mars red was a gti color right, and this car was more of a brick red

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/Trev0rbr/DSCN0076.jpg)