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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: riceatingrabbit on September 08, 2009, 10:01:51 am

Title: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: riceatingrabbit on September 08, 2009, 10:01:51 am
glow plugs are shot.....

cant even get anything by jumping them straight to the battery...


any of you guys have any tricks?



Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: arb on September 08, 2009, 10:05:28 am
SPEED !!!!  If you can roll it down a good hill, or pull it behind another car, you will be able to start it w/o GP. Depending on your trans (you _do_ have a manual?) you might try 3rd or 4th. The thing is to spin the engine to about 1500 rpm and it will start :-) If you have an auto-slop, no way I know of that is w/o risk. Starting fluid might start it (Worked for me once) but it is hard on the engine and this is sure to get some harsh remarks about never using starting fluid on our IDI.

You might want to pimp your GP rather than trouble-shooting your problem (testing each GP in the process of pimping.)
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: riceatingrabbit on September 08, 2009, 10:11:17 am
ya that would probably work...


I am currently sitting with no additional car to use...


I wore down my battery by cranking on it and right now I'm waiting for it to charge and waiting for it to get hotter outside..
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: arb on September 08, 2009, 10:23:24 am
ya that would probably work...


I am currently sitting with no additional car to use...


I wore down my battery by cranking on it and right now I'm waiting for it to charge and waiting for it to get hotter outside..

If you have a propaine torch you might heat up the intake manifold - the aluminum might transfer enough heat to the intake air - that might work.
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: MouseGTD on September 08, 2009, 11:05:20 am
i used easy start on mine a couple of times, it tells you not to use glow plugs on the can and fired it straight up.
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: turbosuzi on September 08, 2009, 11:16:02 am
If you are going to use starting fluid make sure you disconnect the glow plug feed just to be sure they dont come on while cranking. I know you said that the plugs werent working but being safe is better than replacing pistons and a head. I have heard of using a gas soaked rag over the intake while cranking but it takes 2 people. I have also heard of using a blow dryer in the intake to get hot air in there while cranking. I havent tried either but they sound reasonable. I would prefer hot air to combustable gasoline in the engine bay.
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: ilikevwdiesel on September 08, 2009, 11:23:41 am
dump a big pot of boiling water right on the injectors you'll degrease your head at the same time...  :-* mmmmmhoohoohoohahahahahahaha
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: smutts on September 08, 2009, 01:44:18 pm
Quote
dump a big pot of boiling water right on the injectors

One to remember methinks ;)
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: maxfax on September 08, 2009, 02:11:03 pm
Just went though this myself..  At about 40F I was able to crank it a bit (gets some fuel in the cyls I guess), let it rest a few seconds, then floorboard the pedal and crank it again till it fired..   But I also have a conglomeration that yields me 23:1 compression...

Rolling start or heating up the intake would be the best options..   At worse case as mentioned disconnect the gp's and give it a VERY VERY VERY little shot of some sort of starting fluid (WD woudl probably be better)..   Basically I spray it across the air intake and let it woft in there...
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: Rabbit TD on September 08, 2009, 05:46:16 pm
I've often wondered what would be a little easier on the engine and still work other than ether, starting fluid or whatever you want to call it.  I've heard of the gas rag trick, the use of propane in the air filter intake, WD-40 and I've even used Brake-Kleen before.  I think the hot air in the intake sounds safest if you have a long enough cord and a big hair dryer or heat gun.  What have some of the rest of you tried in the past?
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: riceatingrabbit on September 08, 2009, 06:18:43 pm
well, I ended up getting it started.... it took a fresh battery and my nieghbors car jump starting it to get it to crank with enouph speed... and at that point it was about 85 degrees out


I picked up some new glow plugs today and I'll probably put them in tomorrow..

fun fun fun!!!
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: rabbitman on September 08, 2009, 07:33:18 pm
I've heard hairspray works but that might be just like ether.

Maybe blow propane in the intake........
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: macka on September 08, 2009, 09:10:17 pm
I've heard hairspray works but that might be just like ether.

Maybe blow propane in the intake........

I've used PB blaster, wd40, release-all, and was told by an old vw diesel mech not to use ether unless it was at least -30*C. In Cyprus the Finn Con and Dan Con guys swore by propane.
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on September 09, 2009, 10:04:34 am
get a heat gun and a remote starter button. im talking a heat gun tho, not a hair dryer. blow the hot air in the intake. then you basically have an intake air heater instead of glowplugs. i tried using ether on my rabbit a couple times with no GP's, but it would still fight the starter. my audi will not start unless you give it ether tho. honestly, if your car wont fight the starter with ether, i would just use the smallest shot of it i could get away with. because its not going to crack the head or blow the headgasket from cranking on the starter. ether breaks heads and blows gaskets when used EXCESSIVELY. i use a tiny shot on my engines. basically as long as it takes me to push the button all the way down and let it up. just a light ppssssst and you should fire right up. just hit the key as soon as you get it ethered, dont even let the GP controller cycle on.
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: Rabbit TD on September 09, 2009, 03:44:19 pm
I've heard hairspray works but that might be just like ether.

Maybe blow propane in the intake........
  Ha -Ha, I never heard about the hair spray method.  I'll add that one to my list too.  I'm sure whatever spray we use other than ether it is the propellant in the can that gives us the starting boost.  I bet a can of black spray paint would work too, at least it will blend in with the soot coming out the tail-pipe 8)
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: topless96 on September 09, 2009, 04:24:30 pm
I have had to use ether in my Cummins and heavy equipment. The right way is to crank the engine over then add a spritz to the air cleaner while the motor is spinning at full speed. If you spray first before cranking some say it concentrates in the intake and can just go into 1 cylinder, then can hurt the piston sometimes called ether lock. I have seen ether damage on a tear down of a Case motor, and they have factory ether injection systems. Ether is easially detonated and can preignite while the pistion is in the compression cycle ie before TDC. A trick was to use a thin plastic tube like vacuum tubing into the air cleaner and bring the ether can into the car so you can add a tiny amount while cranking. LOL but the heat gun way sounds easier.
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: Rabbit TD on September 09, 2009, 05:54:33 pm
I have had to use ether in my Cummins and heavy equipment. The right way is to crank the engine over then add a spritz to the air cleaner while the motor is spinning at full speed. If you spray first before cranking some say it concentrates in the intake and can just go into 1 cylinder, then can hurt the piston sometimes called ether lock. I have seen ether damage on a tear down of a Case motor, and they have factory ether injection systems. Ether is easially detonated and can preignite while the pistion is in the compression cycle ie before TDC. A trick was to use a thin plastic tube like vacuum tubing into the air cleaner and bring the ether can into the car so you can add a tiny amount while cranking. LOL but the heat gun way sounds easier.
I can imagine the worse case picture there would be anesthetsizing myself somehow in the process ;D
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: riceatingrabbit on September 09, 2009, 06:06:25 pm
heat guns a good idea...


I still haven't put int my new glow plugs...


I went to start the car this afternoon and it fired right up.... no GPs.. and it was stone cold...

the difference has to be ambient air temp. yesterday morning it was about 50ish and I could t get it to start... today it cranked right up and it was about 75 out..



...interesting...

Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: arb on September 10, 2009, 05:37:28 am
heat guns a good idea...


I still haven't put int my new glow plugs...


I went to start the car this afternoon and it fired right up.... no GPs.. and it was stone cold...

the difference has to be ambient air temp. yesterday morning it was about 50ish and I could t get it to start... today it cranked right up and it was about 75 out..



...interesting...



Yes, temp is everything. May really large diesels have no glow plugs or electric heaters. They use a drip - fire method to heat the intake manifold. Diesel is dripped into a pool in the intake and is ignited to create a small fire to heat the metal which will heat the air when it is cranked.
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on September 10, 2009, 09:30:55 am
i like the ether method. i tried about 20 different methods on my audi yesterday. the torch doesnt work if it has a mixing head on it, you need to pipe straight propane in there. the heat gun works the best if you dont want to put fuel in your intake..

i wouldnt use hair spray, it has too much water and glue and *** in it, its made to hold hair from moving, not to be sprayed into an engine. so, whoever uses hair spray, have fun with that. i personally will stick to a small harmless shot of ether to start a dead diesel. ether on a rag over the intake works great too. then it doesnt get a big "hit" of straight ether.

so, basically, on a super worn out engine, the ether worked best for a canned aid. and the heat gun worked best out of all the things that didnt come in a can. im sure heating the head up around the injectors and glows would work great too, i just didnt have the balls to get the flame that close to the injectors or glows.
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: ilikevwdiesel on September 11, 2009, 01:44:11 pm
JUST DUMP A BIG ASS POT O BOILING WATER ON THAT PIG!
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: Jay on September 12, 2009, 11:07:18 am
Try some of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMUGjlV5HU

 ;D
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on September 12, 2009, 12:38:16 pm
thats some miracle stuff there!
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: MRDART on September 12, 2009, 12:45:37 pm
Everyone I know talks about how bad it is with ether for the engine, of course I will never use it unless it is an emergency... but The armytrucks and all (almost)other diesel equipment in the swedish army has the facility of using ether cartridges for really cold starts... we had to use them quite frequently even on fairly new vehicles in the winter time (we get almost as cold as you guys in northern canada/alaska) But these cartridges was probably just the right size no chance of overdoing it...
Title: Re: any tricks to starting without glowplugs?
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on September 12, 2009, 02:22:47 pm
thats why i use only a tiny shot. and i only use it on my junk audi because its so low on compression. my rabbit will not start with ether, it fights the starter too much.