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Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: subsonic on August 27, 2008, 02:23:47 pm
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Just put a down payment on a 2009 Jetta TDI 6-Spd Loyal Edition. Black on Black. :D I am super psyched. Had to give MSRP to get it though.
Should pick it up in the next day or so. Anyone want to see pics when I get it?
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yes of course :D
mod list?
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As far as I know, no one has produced a performance chip mod for it yet. I will probably wait a while for some others to report on how the mods have worked out. Looks like good gains could be had with a more free flowing exhaust sys. I think this car has multiple cats.
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and a particulate filter don't forget :lol: accumulates the diesel particulate, then when it gets full, diesel is injected into it to bring it up to some real red hot temps to 'regenerate' it. i wonder how this would affect the driveability? like... what if you were racing someone and did that? maybe the injector would inject less to keep the temps down??
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and a particulate filter don't forget :lol: accumulates the diesel particulate, then when it gets full, diesel is injected into it to bring it up to some real red hot temps to 'regenerate' it. i wonder how this would affect the driveability? like... what if you were racing someone and did that? maybe the injector would inject less to keep the temps down??
don't know but it must have a sensor of some sort to " clean " the system at the right time. It must be driven hard from time to time so the particulate filter won't foul up... but you shoudn't have a problem :P congrats on the new car and pics are of course expected! :lol:
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I picked it up today, right before I went to work. Didnt have time to get any pics, but I will post some soon. I smiled all the way to work, and all the way back. I drove about 112 miles (about 60 of those at 75 mph)and averaged about 49 mpg. I could have done better but on multiple occasions I had to try out the power. I know I should take it easy, for the break in, but this car hauls ass. It is peppy off the line. Max torque is between 1700 and 2500. About 230 foot pounds. Once you go past 2 grand the turbo really starts kicking in hard all the way to red line. Pushes you right back into the seat. Still need to read the owners manuals to figure out how to work things, But to say that I am very happy with this car would be a great understatement.
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sounds like you're breaking it in just nice... they say not to hold steady speed & to bring the rpm's up anyways for break in... unless these new motors are different.
49 mpg is damn good! i don't think many people with their PD motors were seeing numbers like that! and driven about the same i imagine.
awesome!
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My '06 gets between 41 and 43 MPG on every tank and my city/hwy split is about 10/90% and I average around 65MPH the entire way. I know that when I put my new tires on (Goodyear Assurance TripleTreds) was right about the switch over to ULSD so all told I saw about a 2 to 3 MPG drop in fuel economy due to larger diameter, increased rolling resistance, and ULSD switch.
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:evil: :evil: I just went out to grab my back pack from the car and I see a 4 inch scratch over the rr wheel. Right through the ***ing paint, all the way to metal! Some ***bird at work hit my brand new car the first day I own it! :evil: :evil: I see dead people :twisted:
Looks like it time to park way in the back of the lot. Man that pisses me off.
Let my neighbor who owns a 2004 PD drive it. He said it pulls like a freight train, much more than his PD. He was impressed.
Off to work again.
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Anyone want to see pics when I get it?
UMMMM YEAAAA?????
:P :P :P
Does place you work have parking lot cameras?
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:evil: :evil: I just went out to grab my back pack from the car and I see a 4 inch scratch over the rr wheel. Right through the ***ing paint, all the way to metal! Some ***bird at work hit my brand new car the first day I own it! :evil: :evil: I see dead people :twisted:
Looks like it time to park way in the back of the lot. Man that pisses me off.
Let my neighbor who owns a 2004 PD drive it. He said it pulls like a freight train, much more than his PD. He was impressed.
Off to work again.
oh thats so ignorant of people... yours is a 2.0 litre though right?
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Anyone want to see pics when I get it?
UMMMM YEAAAA?????
:P :P :P
Does place you work have parking lot cameras?
You would think, hell it's the employee lot at the airport. We are in the security buisness!! No cameras. I promise to get the photos up as soon as I can. I need to do it quick before it loses that new dealer shine!
Yep, this is a 2.0. His is a 04 passat. Not sure if it had the 1.9 or 2.0 PD.
Coming in to work today on a back road that was flat, I was going 45 mph in 6th. RPM's were only turning 1300. Still had plenty of oomph.
75mph is about 2400 rpm.
Gave it a some in a fast shift to second and had chirping tires.
This has a electronic differential lock, not sure what that is yet, but it kind of sounds like a lsd. Need to do some more owners manual reading.
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Is it a 6spd manual?
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Yes sir it is :)
I guess the manuals are mostly coming out ofter the intial deliveries of units with the DSG. The 6-spd loyal is just a limited run as an option package.
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differential lock is different than a limited slip diff. the diff actually locks and both tires spin at the same time, while the limited slip does just that... limits the 'slip' :lol:
pretty cool! can you turn it on yourself or not? it must have a traction control button on it (so you can turn it off at least) diff locks usually can't be operated above 20km/h or so due to the tires getting worn very quickly, and other related problems with both tires spinning at same time (wouldn't want to go through a corner with that on :lol:)
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There is a on off for stability control. Going to do some research in the book.
edit
From online:
"The electronic differential lock (EDL) employed by Volkswagen is not - as the name suggests - a differential lock at all. Sensors monitor wheel speeds, and if one is rotating substantially faster than the other (i.e. slipping) the EDL system momentarily brakes it. This effectively transfers all the power to the other wheel."
Owners manual says this will work at vehicles speeds up to 50mph.
Drove like a granny on the way home. Got 51.4 mpg over 60 miles. Car has a little over 200 miles on it. I think when everything is well seated and broken in I will be able to get higher.
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Got some photo's. Car is dusty so the real shine is a bit muted.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0580-1.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0562.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/CopyofDSCN0564.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0567.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0568.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0565.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0569.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0571.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0574.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0573.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0575.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0576.jpg)
24 year difference shot
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/DSCN0582.jpg)
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Nice looking car you got there :D
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So can someone tell me, because I've been looking all over for this information and can't find it anywhere, is this new 2.0 litre clean diesel engine an interference motor and if it is, did the engineers at VW finally get it right and use a timing chain as opposed to a rubber belt (fingers crossed, hoping the answer will be what I want it to be).
Thanks to anyone who knows this.
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So can someone tell me, because I've been looking all over for this information and can't find it anywhere, is this new 2.0 litre clean diesel engine an interference motor and if it is, did the engineers at VW finally get it right and use a timing chain as opposed to a rubber belt (fingers crossed, hoping the answer will be what I want it to be).
Thanks to anyone who knows this.
Of course it's an interference motor. I'm pretty sure ALL diesels and most gassers these days are. And yes, it's got a belt. Belts stretch less than chains allowing more precise timing. The belt is not just "rubber". It has very strong kevlar fibres embedded in it.
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So can someone tell me, because I've been looking all over for this information and can't find it anywhere, is this new 2.0 litre clean diesel engine an interference motor and if it is, did the engineers at VW finally get it right and use a timing chain as opposed to a rubber belt (fingers crossed, hoping the answer will be what I want it to be).
Thanks to anyone who knows this.
hey chrissev! haven't heard from you in a long time. timing chains aren't really the solution... they can still break at 250,000km's+ and like sub said, they stretch, which is not good for a precise motor. with new advancements in materials, i would believe that timing belts will break the 160,000km mark in the near future.
and about the interference motor... i know GM has a lot of them now, because they're noticing a trend. i used to love driving a vw gasser knowing that if the timing belt broke, i could just tow it over to a mechanic and get it replaced... the problem is that it will usually break when you're in a hurry to get somewhere and then you're out of a car for a day or more. just regular maintenance :wink:
so how's the cobalt?
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hey chrissev! haven't heard from you in a long time. timing chains aren't really the solution... they can still break at 250,000km's+ and like sub said, they stretch, which is not good for a precise motor. with new advancements in materials, i would believe that timing belts will break the 160,000km mark in the near future.
and about the interference motor... i know GM has a lot of them now, because they're noticing a trend. i used to love driving a vw gasser knowing that if the timing belt broke, i could just tow it over to a mechanic and get it replaced... the problem is that it will usually break when you're in a hurry to get somewhere and then you're out of a car for a day or more. just regular maintenance :wink:
so how's the cobalt?
Hello again: The cobalt is ok. It's powerful enough and the gas mileage isn't terrible (about 28mpg in the city, 35 on the highway). It's not a VW though (handling is really not very good at all, though better than most GM economy cars). I'm thinking of trading it in for a new jetta (probably a station wagon) with the clean diesel engine, within the next two years or so (once they get all the bugs worked out of the design).
So the timing belts in these new clean diesels will do 160,000km? That is quite a bit better than the 60,000 km the belts in the old TDI jettas would do before needing replacement. I think the cobalt engine may be interference, not sure. But it has a chain. I have noticed that GM timing chain engines gradually go out of time and it isn't possible to fix this by resetting the timing. Probably the chain is the culprit (stretching). At any rate these new VW clean diesels with their 140 hp and the light jetta body look too good to miss for me, I want one. Beautiful cars.
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They haul! :twisted:
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yea... diesel HP shouldn't be compared to gasser HP. it's the diesel torque that makes them fun :)
chipped i bet you could go 200hp without any other mods, but you would probably smoke a bit... maybe they've locked the ECU to limit particulates??? :(
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I was thinking about oil changes in this car on the drive home yesterday and about engine break in. I have always heard that you should not break in a new engine with a synthetic due to ring seating problems. This car comes with it from the factory :? I wonder if this will necesitate a longer breakin period for ring seating? Anyone have any knowledge on this?
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Sub, from what I have seen the real break in is done on an engine dyno with a computer controlling it at the factory :) If it was mine I would just leave the factory fill till they tell you to change it. There was a bit of discussion on this over at tdiclub.com
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Sub, from what I have seen the real break in is done on an engine dyno with a computer controlling it at the factory :)
That's to dispel the myth that you are getting an hour 0 engine. The car you buy off the showroom floor has already had it's engine tested on the engine dyno, installed and driven around the factory, on and off a truck or ship, and around the dealership.
A friend saw a brand new Dodge viper truck come off the transport with bald tires.......and some cars like the Nissan GTR is driven hard around a test track at the factory. If a secret engine break in technique gave extra power, why don't hand built Corvette Z06 or Ferrari engines get this treatment? Ferrari can't add it to the cost of a $250,000 car?
Proper engine warm up and consistent maintenance are more of a long term factor than slightly different break in methods. As long as you follow the owner's handbook, the engine will break in OK.
In the end, almost all original owners get rid of the car before they need a new engine, especially a TDI engine due to worn rings, so does it make any difference? Buyers guide for the 2009:
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/a5/jettachecklist.htm
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hey subsonic wanna trade for my shinney caddy?
thats a nice car you got there!
i sure you can go 5K between oil changes too!
well i can with our '04 TDI
Duane
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Thats a mighty tempting offer Duane, but I'll have to pass. I think my wife would stick a shiv in my kidney if I traded off the new car.
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First thing went wrong with the car today. Came out this morning to drive the kids to school and noticed that the sunroof was open. It can either slide back or just have the rear tilt up. I had placed the switch into the closed position the night before and gone in. The sunroof has slid closed but the rear had opened up for some reason. I played with the switch this morning and it was squirlly. Looks like I need to bring it in to the dealer. Have over 3000 miles on it now.
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Sunroof switch turned out to be faulty, will have it replaced when I go in for my 10k mile oil change. Trunk light assembly had to be replaced.
Have just under 10k on the car now.
I had a no start situation this morning that is pissing me off. My wife came in and tells me "the new car wont start." WTH? I go out, thinking it may have been operator error, and try to start it. Turns over great----no fire. WTF. Turn off the key, turn on the key wait a second and crank again, for about 5 seconds. The engine catches and runs like complete ass. Sounds like it is only on two cylinders. Dies after about 4 seconds of stumbling. Crank it again, same deal. Dies. Crank it one last time and rev it up to about 3 grand once it catches. Engine comes back to normal idle. Drove it 60 miles or so in to work, ran fine. I noticed the week before when I started it I had a difficult time holding the idle steady while I was reving up the engine to try and get some heat going to melt through the inch of ice on the windshield. I tried to hold it just under 2k but it would wander up or down about 300rpm no matter how I worked the pedal.
So I call the dealer where I bought the carand get, "Sounds like water in the fuel, time to drain the filter. Those things are great at catching water." Anyone else hear of a no start / hard start situation on the 2.0 TDI ?
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Not on the CR, but I had a problem with my anti-shudder valve sticking shut ('06 PD). I don't know if the CR's have one or where it is but you might want to check that out. I had mine replaced under warranty.
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How does the anti-shudder valve function?
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all electronic tdi's have the anti shudder valve as far as i know... its almost like a throttle plate. technically you can just jam it open and your car will run great, but will have the 'shudder' of the older diesels upon shut down. i think that is its only purpose.
sub yours will be servo controlled whereas older ones use vacuum. my '06 PD motor has a servo controlled unit. i suppose yours could be sticking, but hard to believe on such a new car.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=128812
that thread shows an easy way of checking the vacuum controlled ones, but the servo ones don't have the arm that you can manually actuate.
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Mine was sticking and I only had the car a couple months, if that. jtanguay is correct but it also works with the EGR to feed the recirc. gases. It closes part-way when the EGR duty cycle is active.
On the BRM you can easily unclip the intercooler pipe just before the anti-shudder valve and actually see the flap valve. Yours is probably different but check just before the intake manifold there should be two assemblies.
The one closest to the intake mani would be the EGR and the one upstream of that should be the ASV assembly. Your intercooler pipe should hook-up to this with an easy to disengage circlip-type ring.
Just stick a flat screwdriver under the clip and pry up a bit and the IC pipe should unlock and be able to be slid off. You should now be able to see the flap valve and see if it is stuck.
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I had similar symptoms to yours. Car would crank but not fire up or it would just for a second and die. Basically the engine wasn't getting any air.
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I am going to drop the car off today at a dealer near where I work. They are going to run the obd to see if the history will show anything. The service guy said the history may have recorded some info even if I did not get a check engine light. I will mention the anti-shudder valve. Getting the 10k oil change etc done. Will let you know what they say.
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So I call ahead, tell the service adviser the whole deal, ask if I can e-mail him the problem description. No. Tells me to print it out and bring it in so I do. I get to the dealer, go in the service dept, ask for the guy, hand hime the paperwork and ask where he wants the car. I tell him I need to leave asap so I am not late for work. Guy takes close to 15 min asking me my name etc. I tell him it is all on the printout I have for him. H e just keeps asking. I tell him I wont be able to get the car untill 1/2 hour after closing time. I am informed that they will not be responsible for ANYTHING that happens to the car one min after they close. Nice- getting a good feeling about this. Close of buisness I get the call. "There is nothing wrong with your car, it's fine. There were no codes." So I ask the guy if the physical inspection showed anything. Long pause......."what do you mean?"
The engine, was there anything that showed up when you looked over the engine.
"There was no need to look at the engine, there were no codes"
So I ask him to explain why the car did not start and why the engine died 3 times.
He says he does not know it could have been a bunch of things, so I ask him to tell me what those things could have been.
"It could have been cold out." :roll:
"You might not have started it correctly." :?
"Wait, wait. I might not have started it correctly? Like how?"
"You might have given it to much fuel."
"You might have cranked it too long and over-heated something."
"The fuel filter may have had water in it."
So did it?
"Did what?"
Did the fuel filter have water in it? Did you check it?
"No, there was no code. That means its working fine."
So if there is no code, there is no problem, is that what you are telling me?
"Yes. Thats correct." "You need to leave it over night to see if we can duplicate the problem."
I tell the guy I cant do that.
"Then there is nothing we can do."
This is the same guy who tried to tell me that my 10k service was going to cost me 170 bucks. He did not even know that the maintenance is included up to 36000.
Manchester VW in Manchester NH. Some top notch guys.
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i would be leary to go to a dealer like that again.
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So would I. My service guy has been very good. I live out of town and he always tries to get my car done the same day. I still try to keep my car out of the dealership, but it's still under warranty so I want to get the bugs out before the warranty runs out.
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To top it off, I looked under the car this morning to see if they reattached the lower engine cover with all the fasteners--need to pull it to get at the oil filter etc. What do I see? Two big fresh oil stains on my driveway. One about 5 inches accross, one about 2" (I took pictures of them right before the snow started so I would have proof.). I look up at the cover and see a big fat drop of oil hanging off it. :evil: I expect a little spillage from a oil change, but this appeared after a 60 mile drive home, 90 min of driving. I am thinking if there was some spillage it would be long gone before I pull into my driveway after 60 miles. I tried contacting VW customer service to get the name of the north east cust service co-ordinator. They were closed for the storm. No way am I into a new 2009 Jetta tdi for over 23 grand to have it run like *** on occasion and leak oil like my old 85 golf. Someone is going to get a earful. I will post all of this here, the vortex and on tdiclub. You can be sure I will be telling the rep that as well.
ps. The morons stuck a valvoline oil change sticker on my car with the next oil change mileage as 15k. 5k after this one. The service interval is 10k. At least they used the 507 oil. I ran the part number off the dealer receipt to make sure.
Oil---GVW052195M2
Filter element- 071115562C (have not checked this.)
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jtanguay,
I read the link you posted about the asv. Many of the people who reported problems with it had starts just like mine. I wonder if the vag-com program can detect engine malfunctions that the dealer obd system does not?
I am trying to get registered on tdiclub but am having problems logging on. I sent a help request to there admin link.
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jtanguay,
I read the link you posted about the asv. Many of the people who reported problems with it had starts just like mine. I wonder if the vag-com program can detect engine malfunctions that the dealer obd system does not?
I am trying to get registered on tdiclub but am having problems logging on. I sent a help request to there admin link.
hmmmm maybe they changed the login to get rid of porn spammers...
i wonder why your car needs 507 oil.. of course it is superior, but you don't need to worry about the cam rounding off because there is no PD injectors...
maybe your asv is just a bit sticky??? can you access the hose to check? hopefully that won't void any warranty.. whatever the warranty covers... :roll: sounds like top notch people at that stealer...
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Here is the letter I sent to VW customer care:
To: VW Customer Care
From: Jim xxxxxx
RE: Case # 8041-11xx
Vehicle problems / Poor dealer service. 2009 Jetta TDI Loyal edition.
VIN # 3VWCL71K49M003xxx
I am the owner of a 2009 Jetta TDI. I think it is a wonderful car. I purchased the car in August, 2008 and have put over 10,000 miles on it already. I bought the car from Beranger VW Rochester, N.H.
Just to give you a bit of my personal history with VW diesels. I have been driving them since 1985. I put over 500,000 miles on my first one, 300,000 on my second one. I have another in my driveway that is awaiting a freshly rebuilt engine I have in my garage. I have a fair amount of knowledge on the workings and maintenance of VW diesels. I can rebuild them, I can rebuild and set breaking pressures on injectors, I have the correct tools to set and adjust injection timing. I am very familiar with the IDI setup. I will be honest and say I do not know as much about the newer Common Rail units. I am not clueless about it, just not as up to speed as I am on previous units. I wanted to lay that groundwork so you know where I am coming from with my concerns.
Below is an account of the problem I was having with my car. I had it posted on one of the many VW diesel web sites that I frequent.
Have just under 10k on the car now.
I had a no start situation this morning that is pissing me off. My wife came in and tells me "The new car wont start." (She cranked it over 2 times).
WTH? I go out, thinking it may have been operator error, and try to start it. Turns over great----no fire. WTF. Turn off the key, turn on the key wait a second and crank again, for about 5 seconds. The engine catches and runs like complete ass. Sounds like it is only on two cylinders. Dies after about 4 seconds of stumbling.
Crank it again, Thousand 1, thousand 2, etc. Catches after 5. Same deal. Stumbles about 4-5 seconds, Dies.
Crank it one last time and rev it up to about 3 grand once it catches.
Engine comes back to normal idle. Runs fine. Something is not right.
Drove it 60 miles or so in to work, ran fine.
I noticed the week before when I started it I had a difficult time holding the idle steady while I was revving up the engine to try and get some heat going to melt through the inch of ice on the windshield. I tried to hold it just under 2k but it would wander up or down about 300rpm no matter how I worked the pedal.
I am going to drop the car off today at a dealer near where I work. They are going to run the OBD to see if the history will show anything. The service guy said the history may have recorded some info even if I did not get a check engine light. I will mention the anti-shudder valve. Getting the 10k oil change etc done. Will let you know what they say.
I live in North Berwick Maine. I work in Manchester NH. I chose to use Manchester VW because I pass them on the way to work.
I have had nothing but problems with them.
The service adviser I spoke to before I dropped it off was not the same one I spoke to earlier.
I was now dealing with Reggie Miller / 0332. I spoke with Mr. Miller on the phone an hour or two before I dropped the car off.
Mr. Miller acted as if he was doing me a favor by allowing me to bring my car in to have it looked at.
The first thing he did was a walk around of the car to note any damage. That’s fine. I have a scratch on a fender and a cracked windshield. I understand they don’t want to be held liable for those things. Then he tells me that because there is road salt and a small amount of slush on the car that he cannot ascertain if there is any other hidden damage. If I pick up my car and there is any sort of damage on the dirty parts of the car, then they are not responsible for it. He asks me to sign off on a paper saying as much.
I then tell Mr. Miller that I will have to pick up the car about 20 min after closing time. Mr. Miller than turns in his chair and points to a sign on the wall that states that Manchester VW will not be responsible for anything that happens to a car on there lot after they close. Nothing. Not one thing. If I pick it up and it has a dented fender it is not their problem. At this point, I’m not really getting the warm and fuzzy, we’ll take care of you, feeling a new car owner expects.
I give Miller a print out of the above write up. I had also asked if he could do the 10K service while he had it.
At this point, your service advisor tells me he can get the 10k service done, and it should only run me about $150-$170.
This is your Service Advisor. Has this guy had any new model training? This is a 2009. Maintenance is included up to 36,000 miles.
I inform him about the included maintenance up to 36,000 miles and tell him it is covered and I do not expect to pay anything. Mr. Miller tells me that he thinks I am incorrect, but he will check on it for me. Nice of him to humor me.
I ask Miller to set the tire pressure 5 psi or so above standard, when the tires get rotated. He does not want to do this. I explain that if they adjust tire pressure after my car is sitting in a 70 degree bay, and pump 80 degree compressed air into the tires, I will have a problem when the car is then moved out into a 20 degree environment. Instead of reading 35psi I will be 5psi or so low due to the 60 degree temperature drop. Mr. Miller argues with me. I finally tell him to not adjust tire pressure at all. Leave them as they are. He agrees.
I leave my contact info and tell Miller I have the spare key. I ask him to contact me when he has any information.
At close of business I get the call.
"There is nothing wrong with your car, it's fine. There were no codes."
So I ask the guy if the visual or physical inspection showed anything.
Long pause......."What do you mean?"
The engine, was there anything that showed up when you looked over the engine.
"There was no need to look at the engine compartment, there were no codes"
(I would classify this as basic trouble shooting 101. So how was a 10k mile service done without the engine compartment being looked at?).
So I ask him to explain why the car did not start and why the engine died 3 times.
He says he does not know it could have been a bunch of things, so I ask him to tell me what those things could have been.
"It could have been cold out."
(It was 40+degrees when I attempted to start it. This is a very uninformed answer. This car should have no problem starting at this or much lower temperatures. If a 2009 Jetta does not start when the temperature drops into the low 40’s, something is wrong.)
"You might not have started it correctly."
"Wait, wait. I might not have started it correctly? Like how?"
"You might have given it too much fuel."
(Does Mr. Miller know how a diesel injection system works? I do. Too much fuel? Fuel delivery is controlled by IP timing, nozzle breaking pressure, amount of turbo boost, the ECU etc. Perhaps he thinks I had a stuck float on my carburetor? ).
"You might have cranked it too long and over-heated something."
(Another hair brained answer. See the above write-up. “ 5-seconds” of cranking. I am pretty sure that is within the acceptable limits).
"The fuel filter may have had water in it."
So did it?
"Did what?"
Did the fuel filter have water in it? Did you check it?
"No, there was no code. That means it’s working fine."
(So why tell me that this may have been a reason?)
So if there is no code, there is no problem, is that what you are telling me?
"Yes. That’s correct. You need to leave it over night to see if we can duplicate the problem."
I inform Mr. Miller that I have driven the car multiple times since the problem and it is currently running well. I inform Mr. Miller that I live over 60 miles away and that leaving the car overnight in Manchester is not feasible.
"Then there is nothing we can do."
I pick the car up after work.
The service write-up states:
“Hard to start cold. See attached note from cust.”
That’s good that the tech saw my notes. But none of the particulars are entered into my vehicle history. I see nothing about the idle not holding steady, nothing about the no-start. Nothing about the 4-5 seconds of running and stalling multiple times. That all needs to be entered and recorded. If this happens again, I will need to prove a past history of the same or similar problem. If this happens again, the next technician will need to be able to read the past history. Something was definitely wrong. I don’t know if the ECU had a temporary brain fart or what, but diesel engines do not start hard, run like crap and stall out unless something is wrong.
As an additional note, the service tech was kind enough to affix a Valvoline oil change sticker to my windshield stating that the next service was due at 15,000 miles. I realize that this is a 2009 TDI, but if he was paying attention in the mandatory class you sent all your techs to about this car, he would know that this engine has a oil change service of 10k, not 5k.
To top it off, I looked under the car the next morning (12/19/2008) to see if they reattached the lower engine cover with all the fasteners--need to pull it to get at the oil filter etc. What do I see? Two big fresh oil stains on my driveway. One about 5 inches across, one about 2" (I took pictures of them right before the snow started so I would have proof.). That’s a size 13 shoe as reference.
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/?action=view¤t=DSCN0760.jpg
I look up at the cover and see a big fat drop of oil hanging off it.
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/?action=view¤t=DSCN0761.jpg
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/?action=view¤t=DSCN0762.jpg
I expect a little spillage from an oil change. I also expect the mechanic to have enough pride in his work to wipe it up and leave the engine clean. This appeared after a 60-mile drive home, 90 min of driving. I am thinking if there were some spillage it would be long gone before I pull into my driveway after 60 miles. It is now 12/27/2008. I have driven the car through snow and rain. The car has been through the car wash and had the under carriage washed as well. I continue to have an oil leak staining my driveway and leaking out of my new $23,000 car.
Please see the attached pictures.
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/?action=view¤t=DSCN0789.jpg
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/?action=view¤t=DSCN0787.jpg
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/?action=view¤t=DSCN0790.jpg
To say that I lack confidence in the abilities of the Manchester VW staff would be a drastic understatement. They have displayed a distinct lack of product knowledge. They attempted to charge me for work that should have been free. They were unable to locate the root cause of the original problem and instead attempted to place blame for the situation on me, the customer. The answers given by your Service Advisor were ludicrous and insulting. The simple act of changing the oil has been screwed up and my new car undercarriage / driveway is now being covered in used diesel engine oil.
I do not want to bring my car back to Manchester VW for any additional service, nor will I recommend that anyone else from the various web sites that I post to go there either.
I intend to bring at back to the dealer of purchase, Beranger VW.
Regardless, I will need to bring the car back in again to have this problem corrected. So far, in the 4 short months that I have owned the car, the trunk light assembly has been defective and replaced, the sunroof control switch has been defective and the part ordered for replacement, there was a problem with the idle, the starting and stalling problem, and now an oil leak. I always had to make adjustments to my older VW diesels, I expected it. To have these sorts of things happen to my new 2009 TDI is very disappointing.
I work 12-hour days 5 days a week. When I am not working I am looking after my 3 small children. To be continually dealing with these issues with my “brand new car” is stealing what small time I have to give to them. A start in the right direction towards resolving these issues needs to include making a loaner vehicle available for me while these other problems are worked out. Additionally, I would like to make certain that this is the end of these kinds of problems with this car.
I look forward to hearing from you on this matter.
Jim xxxxx
xxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx
I will fill you in on the response I got tomorrow.
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Thats a good letter. I hope they deal with it. You didn't get really angry you just told them how it was and you have pictures to back it up. Good work. Keep us posted.
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Oh man, I hate to see this kind of thing happen.
Bad customer service is not a good deal in anyway.
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So my letter gets a response from the north east region customer care manager. We talk, it goes well, but she still wants me to take it back to the dealer in Manchester who did the work. I m not real happy about it but the service manager tells me he will put his shop forman on it, car rental will be taken care of etc. I make an appointment to drop it off with the manager. Date arrives, drive to the dealer, Manager is busy in a meeting and I end up with the same service writer as I did the first time. He has no knowledge of my conversation with the Manager and wants me to start at the beginning and explain everything again. Not a good start. Car intake does not go well, It is taking longer than it should and I am getting close to needing to get to work or I will be late. I finally hand over my keys and get a rental car voucher. I walk accross the lot to the rental shop hand them the paperwork and ask them what they have reserved for me.
"uhhhhhhh.... the only thing we have is a cargo van."
Strike two.
Manager was supposed to coordinate a suitable car rental.
The only other car they have on the lot has a broken windshield wiper system. No good. I am told they can get another car from accross town but it will take a bit. I tell them that will make me late for work, no thanks. Get my voucher back, go locate the Manager and explain the situation. This guy does not understand me not wanting to drive a two seat cargo van 120 miles in the winter with a blizzard forcast for that night.
"Whats wrong with it?" Strike three, I am done with this dealer
I tell him I want my keys back and that I am taking my car. I am informed that he has been trying to help me out, but perhaps he is not the right man to work with me. Jackass.
I call back to customer service and relay the info. I tell them I am taking the car back to the dealer I bought it from.
The next day I get a call back and am told that it will be no problem, the only thing is, if the oil leak was caused by faulty workmanship at Manchester, I will need to pay the repair bill and then go back to Manchester and try and recoup it.
I informed vw customer care that that was completly unacceptable and there was no way I was going to do that, period, not happening.
A few days later I get a call back saying the dealers would work it out between themselves.
I bring the car in to the dealer where I bought it. Difference is like night and day. Hand shake, how ya doing, your all set. I turn around and the car rental person is waiting behind me with the keys in her hand for the rental. Much better.
I get a call from the dealer later that day with an update. The oil leak is from the cam seal not from the oil change. I guess it must have been a one in a million coincedence that the cam seal started leaking the very night that the oil change was done. Dealer agreed that it was very strange, but that was where the leak was. They have to order the part so will be keeping the car an exta day.
I cant help thinking that somehow Manchester screwed up somehow. I dont know how, but the coincedence just gives me a bad vibe.
I am supposed to get a call later today to tell me how the repair went and if anything else was found.
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Good to hear you found a dealer that wasn't completely incompetent. My service dept has been pretty good, but you can bet once my warranty expires there is no way I will go back. I guess it helps if you can do the major repairs yourself.
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The dealer ended up keeping the car for 2 days. Said there was oil everywhere that needed to be cleaned up. Had to order the cam seal. Guess the new seal needs to sit for 4 hours after install before the cam can be turned. Also had some foam tape installed in the center of the dash to eliminate a rattle. I drive the car for a few days, no more oil leak. I decide to see if I can look at the repair area yesterday while I am waiting for my car pool. The accessory belt is covered in oil, both sides. The alt pulley is slick with oil, the tensioner for the belt has oil all over it :x . No way is that a good thing. So I figure I will need to call the dealer again on Monday about getting the belt replaced and the area cleaned properly. Makes me wonder if any is on the timing belt.
Did I mention that even though this has pissed oil all over the place, for 3000 miles, that my dip stick still reads full? I look through the tdi engine supplement in my manual and it says the car takes 4.2 qts with oil filter. I look at the slip from Manchester VW and it says they installed 5 qts. So I have been driving the car with almost an extra qt of oil in it for 3000 plus miles. Wonder how that affects the oil pressure.
Turns out, I did not have to wait until Monday. My wife drives the car 30 miles to work this morning, straight down I-95. She calls me on her cell phone as she is getting off the highway.
“Something is wrong with the car again!”
“What’s up baby?”
“That glow plug coil light thingy is on and the car feels like it is losing power. What should I do?”
So I tell her to drive it the remaining few blocks to her work and park it. I will call the dealer.
Call the dealer where I bought it. “Sorry, we are a small shop and service is closed on the weekend. Call roadside assistance.”
Crap! Call roadside assistance. Guy is clueless. I tell him the problem and where the car is parked. He tells me he will have it towed to xxx dealer in cape coral. That’s Florida by the way and I live in Maine. I have to look up the nearest dealer for this guy and then check myself to see if the service dept is open. I tell him to tow it there, it’s about 5 miles at the most from the car. The service dept says they close at 2pm but as it is only 9am they will have time to evaluate the problem and perhaps get it fixed today. Great. All is well. I hang up and inform my wife. I get an auto call telling me that a tow truck has been dispatched and will be there in 20 min. I head off to work.
1pm. Get a call from my wife saying the tow truck just showed up! WTF! Call the dealer, he confirms. He just got the car and it is 130pm. :x :x He will not have time to get it fixed and will have to have a secretary drive a loaner over to my wife.
Starting to think I may have a lemon.
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Update:
Dealer calls on Monday. They have a fault code related to the intake charge pipe. They also see all the oil and tell me that there is still an active leak. They cleaned it up and it started dripping again. Dip stick is still on a bit past full after 3 months of leaking. Anyone know what overfilling the oil on this engine will do to it? Oil pressure, seals, EGR, particulate filter, cat, turbo????? :(
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Get another call from the dealer. There is another seal on the head that has gone bad. Guy on the phone did not know its name, but he did know it is on national back order. Car is down for at least another week :evil:
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Wow, that sucks. You should post on tdiclub to see if anyone else has had this problem. As for the side-effects of too much oil, it will definitely be especially bad on the complex exhaust of the '09. I have heard the complete 2009 exhaust is worth at least $1600 for parts alone :shock: .
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Also had some foam tape installed in the center of the dash to eliminate a rattle.
I look at the slip from Manchester VW and it says they installed 5 qts. So I have been driving the car with almost an extra qt of oil in it for 3000 plus miles. Wonder how that affects the oil pressure.
Starting to think I may have a lemon.
Sorry to hear all your troubles. My 09 has a "dash rattle" Can you tell me more about the foam tape installation?
5 quarts of oil probably blew your seals. Its their fault.
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The tech told me that the foam tape was part of a kit that they use to quite down the dash rattle. I was told it was a common complaint in the mk5. If I can locate it, I will pull the part number off my paperwork.
On another happy note, I picked up the car today from the dealers after it had been there since last Sat. I got them to print out the scematic from the parts dept showing the head and the part ordered. I will try and snap a picture of it and post it. Ended up with a new plug of some sort that sits above the cam seal (which was replaced a week or so ago :x ), new timing belt and tensioner and some sort of cover.
Drove it home in the rain, everything worked. Started to snow tonight, big storm coming in. I decided to run to the store real quick before it got too heavy. Clean off the windshield, start it up, start to back up, turn on the wipers......turn on the wipers......... :x Nothing. Check to make sure they are not all jammed up with snow, nope all clear. Delay, full speed, mist, nothing. Windshield wipers don't work now. Kind of hard to drive in new england in the winter without funtional windshield wipers. Called roadside assistance to tow it back to the dealer. It will be waiting for them when they show up to work. It will be like it never left :roll:
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The tech told me that the foam tape was part of a kit that they use to quite down the dash rattle. I was told it was a common complaint in the mk5. If I can locate it, I will pull the part number off my paperwork.
On another happy note, I picked up the car today from the dealers after it had been there since last Sat. I got them to print out the scematic from the parts dept showing the head and the part ordered. I will try and snap a picture of it and post it. Ended up with a new plug of some sort that sits above the cam seal (which was replaced a week or so ago :x ), new timing belt and tensioner and some sort of cover.
Drove it home in the rain, everything worked. Started to snow tonight, big storm coming in. I decided to run to the store real quick before it got too heavy. Clean off the windshield, start it up, start to back up, turn on the wipers......turn on the wipers......... :x Nothing. Check to make sure they are not all jammed up with snow, nope all clear. Delay, full speed, mist, nothing. Windshield wipers don't work now. Kind of hard to drive in new england in the winter without funtional windshield wipers. Called roadside assistance to tow it back to the dealer. It will be waiting for them when they show up to work. It will be like it never left :roll:
ah!!! you bought a new car to avoid these kind of troubles... i heard that the windshield wipers are tied to the computer, and can/might need to be re-programmed when you install new wipers??? i hope thats not the case, and merely rumours/speculation... hopefully this is the last of your troubles!!!
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Ugh.. new cars..
had the same type of crap happen when my parents bought their f-150 in 07.. The truck is two years old and has had to be in the shop more time than i I can remember, and has more rust then my 84 :shock:
I am going to form a boycott for anything post '95 :P
Sad to hear of your troubles.. make that dealers life HELL until it is fixed. :)
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Dealer just called. could not duplicate problem. I thought that might happen so last night I took video of me working the wiper switch with no results. The audio is rated R. I will be taking it in to the dealer and showing it to him.
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Thats a real confidence builder. Wipers wont work and then they work. Sounds like some small thing they forgot and they are covering by fixing on the sly. Smart to get video. Glad mine runs fine except for that freakin dash rattle. Did you get that part number? Sorry, I know you have bigger fish to fry. :D
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When I showed the dealer the video, they decided to keep the car another day for further evaluation. I just got a call from them today that they had indeed found a problem inside the wiper motor and had replaced it. The interesting thing is that there was no check engine or fault code. It just randomly failed again while they were looking at it. The same thing happened with the sunroof switch, no codes but it was clearly deffective, Ie.. it would close when switched to open and open when switched to close. Same deal with the no start / stalling issue. No engine codes whatsoever.
On the overfill issue, I am now told that there is no difinitive amount on a oil overfill where damage could occur. Unless I saw smoke dumping out the tailpipe and had check engine lights come on, then there should be no damage. Not sure I am good with that response. I drove it home that night at 9pm going 65mph for almost 90 min. It could have been smoking like hell for 30 miles and I would not have seen it. I am wondering if I should be given some form of warranty extension on any possible affected components?
Freidenker, the paperwork is in the car which is still at the dealer. I will see if I can find the part number later tonight.
As a laughable side note. When I was at the dealership, I noticed the price on the wall for an oil change on the 2009 TDI. :shock: :lol:
Anyone care to make a guess?
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So the saga continues. This car is a POS!!! Tow guy scratched the rear bumper. I found the greasy tow hook that comes with the car tossed on the leather front seat. On the way home I am rolling up to a red light that is about to turn green. I am in neutral at about 15mph. Light goes green, I put it in second and wind it up to about 3500rpm.
Loud audible
DING
Followed by the digital screen message:
ENGINE FAULT WORKSHOP
I pulled over, waited for traffic to go by and repeated the driving situation. The same thing happened again.
I walked in the door to my house at 10pm and called the dealer again. :evil: :evil:
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I havent forgotten about it. I just moved and restacked the MULTIPLE boxes full of goodies I have for it to make room in the garage. Kind of been thinking about going the vnt route on it. Been reading up on the 17 and bigger. Thinking about pulling the new Merc nozzles from my 1.9 dual stage injectors and going stock. All on the back burner though until this fiasco gets sorted out. I need reliable transportation.
Dropped the car off again this morning at Seacoast vw. They have been good. Problem is they fix one thing and then something else goes bad. Test drove the car with a good tech in it. The fault came on again on the MFD. Dash is still making noise. Tech said his wife had the same car and he knew what it was, foam tape was not the correct fix he said. We will see. Got some of the drop off and pick up paperwork dates corrected to reflect how long it was down for. I think I am up to 11 days right now, not including whats going on today.
Gotta figure out how to post all this on tdiclub without just posting the link. Looks like it may need to be a whole lot of cut and paste. I will be very interested in finding out if any other 2.0 CR owners have had problems like mine. Cant wait for the rush of comments when they see the "newbie" title next to my name. Dude, where is my street cred? :lol:
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I called the dealer before they closed for an update. They think, the fault relates to the cam position sensor, not sure though. What the hell is up with the cam? Cam seal was bad, plug above the cam seal was bad, cam sensor might be bad, jeeesh :? Cars going to have another sleepover with it's new best friend, the vw dealer. I was told the other issues are still being worked on. I was told they had been able to polish the scratch off the bumper almost all the way. Right now, thats the best news I have, small as it is. :|
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Keep us informed and ...be strong!
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Maybe the sensors got messed up by the oil spray. Anyway, get all the bugs worked out while you're under warranty and it should be smooth sailing after 50k miles 8) .
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Dropped the car off again this morning at Seacoast vw. They have been good. Problem is they fix one thing and then something else goes bad. Test drove the car with a good tech in it. The fault came on again on the MFD. Dash is still making noise. Tech said his wife had the same car and he knew what it was, foam tape was not the correct fix he said. We will see.
Dude, I know you have troubles galore here. I hate to be such a persistent s*b. Maybe just give me the name of the tech who said he knew what the fix for the dash noise is? Please? I'll call him. My dealer is so dumb I'm scared to let them tear my dash apart. :roll:
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Sorry man, I have not had the car home long enough to pull out the paperwork. Every time I get it home, it goes straight back into the shop. I do not know the tech's name, but it is being worked on at Seacoast VW in Greenland NH. You can call, or have your shop call and talk to Danna, he is the service writer who I am working with. You need the name of the tech who went on the test ride with me. If you mention Jims 2009 tdi that is having the problems he will know which one it is. If I hear from them today I will ask for the name. Pretty bad rattle in your dash? Where are you located?
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The rattle sucks. Like a loud buz varies with engine pitch and some road vibration input. Only when cold out - worse when colder. Makes new car sound clunky. Im in Tobacco and Burbon land (and Hemp). :lol:
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The tech's name is Kevin. You can see if the dealer wants to call up and get some insight. Car is still in the shop, day three on this issue.
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Thanks I'll call next week. Appreciate it much. Wish I could help you. :roll:
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Car is going to end up sitting at the dealers until at least monday. The "engine fault workshop code is throwing them for a loop I guess.
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Update:
Got the call from the dealer, Car should be ready tomorrow around noon. They had to bring in their reginol tech to help troubleshoot. Car went in on Feb. 25th. Should be out hopefully by March 4th. Last two times I picked up the car it only made it one or less days before something else went wrong. I am aiming for al least a 700% improvement before anything else goes wrong :lol:
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If you post this over on TDIClub you might get in trouble. Never seen so many problems. They are like: pro VW you know. Sieg H.
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It's on there. Actually, when I first posted it there I stuck it in the wrong section. The first response was did I join tdiclub just to gripe about my new car :roll: . After that, Most of the responses have not been bad. It does seem like I am having more problems then just about anyone though.
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Good. If they like you they can be great guys and a lot of help. You are having a lot of problems. What about lemoning this one out?
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My wife picked up the car today on the way to work. I called to speak with the service writer to get the info on the fix. I am going to call tomorrow as well and actually speak to the tech who worked on the car. Anyway I was told the cam sensor was faulting because it was the pickup for the sensor was dirty. Once it was clean the fault went away. Seems kind of odd :? The writer did not know if the sensor pickup was a internal part or external. When I asked how it got dirty there was no real answer. The new timing belt ended up getting pulled and put back on again. I am not sure how many times it came off and was reinstalled. I was told they thought it may have jumped a tooth when it was pulled off??? The car was retimed multiple times before they decided it was a dirty sensor. I will repost more info after I speak to the actual mechanic.
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If it jumped a tooth then the valves should have hit the pistons in a zero clearance engine! Did it run like that? Sound clattery? ticky ticky?
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I thought about that. What I think he ment was that while they where working on it, pulling the belt on and off and retiming it to clear the cam position sensor fault, the thought was that the fault was not clearing because the timing was off. I think that is why I was told it was retimed multiple times. It turned out that it was not a timing issue causing the fault, but oil residue from the previous two oil leaks had contaminated the connection between the cam position sensor and the cam position sensor pickup. A weeks worth of work and trouble shooting that was cured by cleaning oil residue from a connection. Looks like it all relates back to the oil leaks.
After a bit of research, it appears as if the earlier CEL that came on when my wife was driving the car, the glow plug one, that was due to loose turbo intake charge piping, was related to the oil leaks as well. When the cam seal was replaced the dealer told me that the upper charge pipe had been removed for access. It most have somehow loosened up after a few days driving and caused the CEL.
So I now have had the car in for the two seperate oil leaks, the glow plug CEL due to the loose charge pipe from the oil leak fix, and the Engine Fault Workshop CEL caused by the cam position sensor being contaminated by oil from the original oil leaks. To my mind that is 4 warranty repairs related to oil leaks. I will be building a file of all my information and having someone from the lemon law office take a look at it. I am not going to file anything yet, but I want to get an opinion on where I stand so far.
On the positive side.....48 hours and still no breakdown!!! :o
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Here's a point of interest and shows the value of the Bosch Manual: p. 387, if the camshaft sensor fails the ECU substitutes the crankshaft sensor to determine when no. 1 is in compression cycle. If this is the case the engine will take longer to start and a MIL will be generated. There is redundancy like this for several functions.
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I have been following this since you posted on TDIClub.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who feels they are a little too "pro VW" for their own good. (grumbles about lifetime fluids and people who think the owners manual is some holy grail)
Anyhow, I hope your issues are resolved. I know I'd hate the car. It puts my issues in perspective; my 2006 had a bad airbag in the passenger seat -- 4 attempts before fixed right, and it throws codes for:
- Right rear tweeter
- Weight sensor for aigbag, pass seat
- Rear right window intermittent or implausible signal
- Anti-Shudder valve intermittent functionality
In the end, it starts, stops and has lasted 82k miles. Jury's out on if I'll see a cam failure in the next 40k miles like others have, my DMF took out the clutch before 33k miles; and I footed the $900 to upgrade to Valeo clutch and SMF.
I wish I could say I feel your pain, but your issues are far worse than mine! Best of luck comrade.
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Man it sure seams like there are still some quality control issues that vw needs to work out I guess.
My car has been running well for the last few months. Of course my wife has claimed ownership of it for this time frame. She has informed me that she loves the car. "The seats hug me, it handles great, it has a kick ass radio, and when I push down on the accelerator it says "yes mistress!" and takes off." :lol:
I had it the other day and noticed that the repair on the center console to eliminate the rattles has a problem. The vent that is on the top of the dash has popped up out of place, so I will be bring it back in so they can fix it. Now that the snaow and salt are gone and the car can stay mostly clean, I noticed that when they buffed out a scratch on the rear bumper, they must have run the buffing wheel over part of the rubber trim on the back bumper. There is about a 12 to 14" section that has that faded out white-ish look to it that the rubber on bumpers get when they are old. I am going to press that they replace it. I am sure I can put something on it to bring the shine back, but it is just going to keep wearing off and the dull section will keep showing, besides, why the hell should I have to keep putting something on my bumber to cover up damage that the dealer did?
Anyway........
Drove about 60 miles on the way home yesterday, mix of highway and back roads, some intown driving with red lights etc. Averaged 51mpg.
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Drove 57 miles tonight. Averaged 56mpg :shock: Wonder if the computer is correct?
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It was time to bring the car in for it’s second oil change at 20,000. You know the story with the first oil change, overfilled, resulting in oil leaks etc. So I bring the car into Seacoast VW in Greenland, NH. As I am handing over the keys I tell the service rep that I would like to have the remains of the 5th quart from the oil change to keep as a spare in the car. I kind of get a funny look at the request so I explain that the car takes 4.1 qts. for an oil change, not 5. I then explain again that the car is a 2009 2.0 CR TDI. The service rep tells me that they are now getting their special oil in 150gal drums and that they are not using the individual qts any more. That’s fine with me I tell her, but I make sure to tell her that the car needs to have 507 spec oil. I am told that is no problem that they have it covered. About an hour and a half go by and I get paged up to the counter. Cars all done. I take a look at the paperwork and the only part number I see is for the oil filter. The only thing it says about the oil change is “Oil Change-SynPower”. I point this out and ask about the rest of the info.
“Like what?”
What oil weight did you put in? How much did you put in? Which SynPower did you use, there are 7 different types in the Valvoline SynPower line?
“We used the right one, don’t worry it really good oil.”
The most I can get out of them is that it was 5w-30. It’s late; I’m missing dinner with the wife and kids so I say fine and head out to the car. I notice they have stuck one of those pain in the ass service reminder stickers on the windshield instead of on the door column. I pull the stupid thing off and look at it. Next service due in 5,000 miles. I walk back inside, hand it to the service writer and ask why it says 5,000 instead of 10,000.
“They must have just typed it in wrong, we know it’s not due in for another 10k, don’t worry about it.”
I shake my head and take off. I can’t check the oil when I get home because it still super hot (40 min drive.), plus it’s raining. I meant to check it over the next few days but every time I remembered it, it was raining like hell outside.
I still had a nagging feeling that something was not right so I start looking up the info on Valvoline SynPower. Takes a while, but I do find out that Synpower XL-III 5w-30 is in fact 507 compliant. I feel a little better but still am not good with the lack of info on the dealer paperwork. I call back the dealer and ask for the parts dept. I tell them I have a 2009 2.0CR TDI and ask if the have the oil in stock and how much is it.
“Yep, we have it. It’s about 10 bucks a qt.”
Is it 507 spec oil?
“That’s what is says right on the bottle.”
Is it Valvoline Synpower?
“Nope, it’s ELF, kind of like Motul, its really good oil.”
I thank they guy and hang up. I then find the US tech support number for Valvoline and give em a call. When they come on the line I ask them if they are putting out Synpower XL-III 5w-30 507 spec oil in 150gal drums.
“Not that I am aware of. You can’t get it in the qts either, we are working on getting it out though.”
I ask the guy if perhaps only the dealers can get it or something.
“No, what I mean is that it is not available right now at all in North America for anyone.”
I ask him to check just to make sure. He gives me a call back after an hour or so and confirms that the info he gave me before was correct.
I thank him again and give the dealer a call back. I get the service dept and ask them to tell me exactly which synpower oil they were using for oil changes on the 2009 TDI. They can’t tell me, they don’t know. Some will have to ask a tech and get back to me tomorrow, but I should not worry because they use the correct 505 spec oil for the PD engine.
Long Pause…………….
“My car is not a PD, it is a 2.0CR TDI that requires vw spec 507 oil.”
I get transferred to Chuck the Service Managers voice mail.
I politely inform chuck that I just had my oil changed within the last week at his dept. I then explain about the lack of information on the paperwork about the oil. I then explain that the synpower oil that I was told was 507 spec and that was put in my car is not available in North America at this time. I tell him about my call the Valvoline that confirmed this information. I ask him if he can explain this. I then mention that the parts dept does have 507 spec oil in house and ask why it was not used. I then mention the line out of the owners’ manual that states if 507 spec oil is not used:
“Very serious and very expensive damage to your vehicles engine WILL occur. Engine damage caused by using the wrong engine oil will not be covered by your new vehicle limited warranty.”
I leave my number and ask for him to call me back at his convenience.
After I leave the message I notice it is not raining so I head outside to check the oil level. Anyone want to guess how much they put in? That’s right!!!! Just like the first oil change!! 5 qts!!!! Right off the top of the dipstick. Wrong oil and overfilled, nice…..
Did I mention I do about 600 miles a week in this car? Can’t get the car back in until Monday July 6th.
So Chuck calls me up first thing this morning. He tells me that the oil is 505 spec Synpower and that it is fine in my car, he checked with VW tech support a while back and they said it was OK. Just a bit different in the ash content. He has no answer why they have real 507 spec oil in house put did not use it. Different departments and all. If I want, he will drain and refill with the 507 spec oil and toss in a free oil change for later, but I should not worry about it. I ask that he identify the exact oil used in the original oil change.
“Synpower MST 5w-30. It meets 505 spec.” I tell him I cannot get the car in until Monday and then mention that the car was also overfilled with oil. Boy, Chuck sure was mad about that!
“There should be no reason it was overfilled! The techs know better then that! I’m gonna have a talk with him!” So, wrong oil is ok, but overfilled is bad?
I hang up and look up MST 5w-30. It meets Mercedes spec 229.31 not vw 502, 503.01 or 505. Nice. I call VW Customer Care and ask them to pull up my history and then go into this new round of issues. They were quite concerned. I am waiting on a call back from Terri the northeast region case manager.
So if you have had the oil changed in your 2009 tdi by Seacoast VW in Greenland NH recently, and the paperwork says Synpower, you now know that the wrong oil is in your car and possibly voiding your warranty. I suggest you call VW Customer Care and ask for Terri. You can also call Seacoast and ask to talk to Chuck the service manager and ask him to explain why it is ok to use non-507 spec oil in your 2009 TDI.
I’ll post updates as I can.
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That really sucks. You could technically demand a new engine and get VWOA to force the dealership to pay for it. It really bugs me when people half-ass stuff and think it's ok because nobody will know the difference.
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Perhaps it is time that you change your own oil. Then you will know for sure that it is the right oil and filled to the proper level. ;)
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I was gonna say.. you'll have to do your own work to have things done right. Period.
Does it really REALLY (really) matter what oil goes in there? I put everything under the sun within the right weight in my TD idi and it's been good.. yes I know it's older.. but I can't imagine any engine will cry over different types of oil as long as it's the right weight
yes, when you HAVE to pay for it (warranty)
and new engines are getting picky about the oil, tolerances are much tighter
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It was the same story when I worked for VW and the 2004 PD engines came out. We didn't even have the correct oil for it- it didn't matter who I talked to. Eventually I told the parts manager to order the correct damn oil, after showing her the VW bulletin, and we finally got it. The first time I sent a tech away with the correct oil, the service writer was in my face yelling at me because the oil was so expensive and demanded that I take it off so they could put their "bulk" synthetic in it.
I was tight with some local shop owners/enthusiasts, so I sold the oil directly to them by the case (at a slight discount, nobody even bothered to check) and probably moved a hundred quarts a month. None of the techs used it on the scheduled service oil changes. :P I was just a peon parts guy, the service writers thought they owned the place and could pretty much dictate to us how much to charge for things sometimes.
Brendan
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The big factor with the oil as far as I know is how it relates to the emmissions system. Something about the 507 spec being low ash. The overfill I have no idea what will happen. Ya know, I posted the exact same writeup over on tdiclub and have gotten nothing but grief about this is my own fault because I brought it to the dealer instead of doing it myself. And that letting people know that the dealer was knowingly using the wrong oil was just complaining, or calling vw customer care to report the issue was just whining. Those guys suck. Still have not heard anything back from VW yet.
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Customer Care called today while I was at work. I will call in the AM and speak to one of the north east case managers. Let you know how it goes. From reading on the tdiclub, there have been a few 09s swapped out under the lemon laws so far. One of interest happened in NH, the state I bought mine in. I'm gonna get hold of the guy to get some pointers from hin on the process he went through.
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Sorry to hear of your troubles. My 09 TDI Jetta has been a dream for 9300 miles, the majority of it urban/city driving. It cost me $80 for an oil change. I do NOT agree with VW's free maintenance every 10,000 miles. I drove my 09 to Florida and over the 1200 mile run, I averaged 41-42mpg with 4 people and a fully loaded trunk. So for my sense of security, I spent the $80 on the oil change. Even if VW changes the oil after 2500 miles ( I marked the filter to make sure they do!), I still feel better with a fresh oil change before Florida.
If your car is a lemon, best of luck getting your money back. I would be just as aggravated (if not more) than you with the problems you describe.
Stay safe, stay well. Jimmy
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Been arguing with the dealer and vw customer care for a week now. Picking up the car tomorrow at the dealer, been there since monday. I do not forsee a pleasent conversation. Bastards.
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If I were you man, I would just sell that car, cut the loses and buy one somewhere else.
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Subsonic, have they somehow made any of this "right" yet?
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Going to update this thread in the next few days as time permits. I am going to be moving forward shortly with a Lemon Law claim. :(
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Wow, VW sucks :(
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I love my rabbit even more now :D
Sorry to hear about your troubles man, I haven't really read this thread until now and it's pretty crazy. :-[
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Might be looking at a new transmission now.....
Will know after I get some more miles on it after most recent repair.
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Pictures and video's for your shock, awe and general disgust. I will have to upload the rest before I can post it:
Sunroof rattle: This has been going on forever. Everytime I bring it to the dealer it stops. I started to keep my camera in the car so I could catch it on film if it happened again. Here it is:
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/?action=view¤t=DSCN1399.flv (http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/?action=view¤t=DSCN1399.flv)
Next up is the windshield wiper system. The very first hint of anything going wrong with them was a complete failure at night in a snow storm. Can you imagine what would have happened if my wife was driving in the car with the kids? Car had been at the dealership for a week. This was the first day I had it back. I had it towed that night. The next day I was told there was nothing wrong with the car. No codes = no problem. I refused to take the car, instead, I showed them the video:
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/?action=view¤t=DSCN0855.flv (http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/?action=view¤t=DSCN0855.flv)
Windshield wiper sys. again. They should be resetting when I turn off the car. Sometimes they do, sometimes they dont. The arms have been readjusted, the motor was gone over again, still doing it.
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/?action=view¤t=DSCN1582.flv (http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/?action=view¤t=DSCN1582.flv)
and
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/?action=view¤t=DSCN1584.flv (http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/?action=view¤t=DSCN1584.flv)
This video shows the car engine surging and running like crap. As an interesting note. I was driving up to the New Vehicle Arbitration office today to turn in my final batch of paperwork. The Final Repair attemp has allready been done, the engine started doing the same sort of surging again.
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/?action=view¤t=DSCN1585.flv (http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/?action=view¤t=DSCN1585.flv)
This video shows the Check Engine light that came on right before the scheduled Final Repair Attempt. This was after I had filed the notice of Arbitration. Bad EGT sensor and a bad Barometric sensor.
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/?action=view¤t=DSCN1588.flv (http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/?action=view¤t=DSCN1588.flv)
Here is a picture of my oil cap. There is no way it should look like this, but I am told by VW that it is perfectly normal, just a little moisture in the engine. How does that happen if I drive the thing for 3 hours a day on the highway?? Shouldnt crank case ventilation take care of that?
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/DSCN1600.jpg)
Here is a photo of a big warning sticker that is on the hood. Yes, they are talking about the super expensive exhaust / emmisions sytem. The dealerships have dumped 5 quarts into my car on two seperate occassions.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/DSCN1593.jpg)
This is a picture of the very clear, very easy to understand oil warning for the 2009 Jetta TDI that is on the hood. Seacoast VW chose to ignore it and put my life it risk as well as my family's. That is correct even with this big sticker on the hood plus other warnings in he engine compartment, they did not use 507 spec oil. The service Manager told me he had checked with VWOA techical support and they told him it was OK to use non 507 oil. Not sure I believe that one. Powertrain warranty is now void per VW.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/VW%20Arbitration/DSCN1594.jpg)
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Bump for an update. Paperwork dealing with New Vehicle Arbitration has been a nightmare. Just turned in my final 1000 plus pages of information. I have updated the links to the movies and pictures. Please check them out. Still uploading the w/w failure that happened at night in the snow.
As far as my transmission goes, the humming noise that it makes has ben verified by the dealer. VWOA told them to drain the G52 fluid and replace with g70. Noise went away. VWOA then tells the dealership to drain the G70 fluid out and replace with the spec G52 fluid. Mechanic sends e-mail asking if that is all that they are doing as a fix. VWOA tells the dealership to give me my car back. If the noise returns, tear out the tranny and replace with a new unit. VWOA considers the transmission issue resolved.
It turns out that the 10 plus instances of complete temporary engine power loss I reported have been verified by two different service dept managers. Neither of them has been able to determine the cause of the power loss. VWOA received all of my write-ups on them. Since this has not happened again since mid December, VWOA considers the problem resolved. What a load of crap that is.
I was able to get another VW dealership Service Manager to confirm in writing that the use of non VW spec oil in my car during a dealer performed "VW Care Free Maintenance" oil change has voided my powertrain warranty. They did not use the required 507 00 spec oil. The owners manual and Diesel Engine supplement book that came with the car say the same thing. What do you think a 2009 Jetta TDI with a voided powertrain warranty is worh on the market today?
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VW should take it back (and refund you) and tear it aaaalllll apart and find all the problems so they know how NOT to make stuff........
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VW should take it back (and refund you) and tear it aaaalllll apart and find all the problems so they know how NOT to make stuff........
I agree. I've often dreamed about buying a brand new diesel that I can own forever but if this is what the new diesels are like... Or I guess more importantly if this is the way the VW will treat me if I have a problem I'll just keep driving these old dubs.
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What do you think a 2009 Jetta TDI with a voided powertrain warranty is worh on the market today?
If your experience is any indicator, the warranty may not have much value ::)
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It has been very frustrating. I know there are lots of owners out there who are just driving there cars and enjoying them. Their car works like they should. Unfortunately my car is not one of them. I spend over $24,000 and it really has been one problem after another. Dealing with VWOA Customer Care has been a huge waste of time. They listen, sound all concerned, but in the end do nothing to help. Both times I have had to call Roadside Assistance for a tow, it has taken over 5 hours for them to show up. Two of the dealerships I have delt with have been downright horrible. One has gone out of buisness, and the other, the Service Manager straight up lied to me about work on my car.
What the hell is going on with VW????????
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Wow, this is really a story. :o
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The car goes in to the dealer again tomorrow morning at 8am >:(. They will be checking out the wierd engine surging issue that the car has had again. Car was still cold, drove perhaps a mile and pulled in to the post office to get a large envelope to mail part of the arbitration paperwork to VW. As soon as I pulled into the parking spot I could hear the engine surging. I hopped out of the car to listen. The surging lasted for perhaps a minute or so. The fan did not kick on. Perhaps it was trying to do a regeneration for the Diesel particulate filter? When I called the dealer, he said the repair from a few days ago when they replaced the egt sensor and the barometric sensor was supposed to have corrected this issue. I could kick myself for driving the car with out carring my camera with me. If I get video of the fault, I get way more traction with VW. With out video proof it is much harder to prove the fault really happened. The damn car never throws any codes when it acts up, so the dealer has nothing but my discription to work off of. >:( Why can't VW just come out and say the car is a lemon! Hell, I told them I wanted a REPLACEMENT not a refund. I still wanted another VW.
Stuff like this just drives its loyal customers away.
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I have a Touran TDI -05, it has now been on the road for 402200 miles. It has never been to the dealer workshop, I bought it from a security company and they are so big they have their own workshop and now I do all things myself (and on top of that I think that the dealer workshop is as unservice minded a workshop can be). If I need any digital or special things sorted out one of my friends is a vehicle specialist at the VW general agency. If a car like yours end up here, with bunches of difficult problems or errors that normal workshops can't fix, he's the one who takes car of it. I can assure you he's very gnarly about the oil.
Your story is horror and I really hope that you get things sorted out because it's a really nice car you've bought. It seems that the transatlantic dealers need to take care of their customers...
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Just under 20k on mine and no issues (knock wood??)
Dealership has been dynamic on my free servicing.
My condolences on your situation.
Your experiences with VW seem to be a great way to turn off a VW fanatic.
Again, best of luck.
Stay safe, stay well. Jimmy.
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Spent about an hour and a half at the dealer this morning. They checked out the car, no codes. VW asked them to pull certain data and send it to them so the could go over it. Still waiting to find out if the data showed anything.
Countdown is 5 days till arbitration.
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4 days.
Got a call from the dealer. They want me to bring the car back in on Monday morning so they can pull more data from the computer. They want to pull some sort of stored data stream to see if a Regeneration was happening when the engine went wonky.
I have lost count of how many times I have been to various VW dealerships to deal with this car.
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Had to loan a car to my Mother so the Monday appointment was cancled. Tommorow morning is the official Hearing. I will be getting a audio copy of the Hearing that I will try and post on line somewhere. Still can't believe VW is denying the problems exist when I have confirmation of the faults in writing form the supplied VW e-mails and work orders.
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I had my Arbitration Hearing today.
I won. :)
I gotta tell you though, it was a god awful experience. The VW rep was in no way interested in if the vehicle was actually defective. He had seen the videos on here of the defects I had made. He told me so before the hearing. Once the hearing started, the first thing he did was to say that the actual hard copy dvd I had sent him did not arrive a full 5 buisness days before the hearing. All of the members on the board had been given copies as well. Since the rep did not get the hard copy 5 full buisness days before the hearing, he requested that all copies of the video be voided. Request granted. When
I mentioned to the chairman that the vw rep had just told me he had watched the videos, I got jacked up immediatly. They dismissed, declared invalid and threw out EVERY SINGLE FAULT I presented except the power loss issue. The only reason they even considered it was that two service managers duplicated the fault. The VW rep and the service manager from seacoast vw immediatly brought up contaminated fuel as the possible cause. The Arbitration Chairman was in agreement with the VW rep and good old chuck buzzle that the power loss, if not bad fuel, was nothing but turbo lag. I had to argue and produce paperwork over and over again to dispute the claim.
The chairman told me the he did not want to hear one thing about the voided warranty due to the wrong oil being used. "Not a manufacturers defect." not one more thing about it.
The board technical rep compared my tranny noise to the rear differential of a pickup. "Nothing to worry about."
Other great comments from these guys:
"All sunroofs rattle. Next isue."
I will be getting a copy of the Hearing on a audio CD. I will probably listen to it a few times, and then think about posting it online on youtube or something.
Parting comment from the Chairman to me was " Gather your things and get out."
A win is a win I guess, but man alive, owning a newer vw should not be this painful!
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VW obviously has more lawyers on the payroll than engineers or businessmen. This ratio will eventually kill the company. Your experience pretty much precludes my ever purchasing a new VW, as I personally know two other folks who've been put through the same mill with gasser cars. I still put most of the blame for faulty cars here in N. America at the feet of the Mexican production plant, using Mexican-made components to assemble "German" cars. :P
Congrats on winning the case, and thanks particularly for posting and keeping us updated. Spread the word, kids... the only way they will ever change their ways is bad publicity. Just don't sign your name, or you'll have packs of liars... I mean LAWYERS baying at your door. The customer has become the enemy.
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How did you win when they threw all of it out? What did you win? Is everything better or what happens from here?
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How did you win when they threw all of it out? What did you win? Is everything better or what happens from here?
They dismissed, declared invalid and threw out EVERY SINGLE FAULT I presented except the power loss issue.
I had 10 reported instances of complete and sudden power loss while driving the car in traffic. All the times I reported this to the dealers. The dealers tried to duplicate many times to no avail, or so they said. When VW turned over the e-mail that went back and forth between the tech's and VW technical support, it showed an example of one time where the fault had been duplicated exactly as I had described.
VWOA could not show a cause for the faults. VWOA could not show a fix they had done to correct the faults. Sudden and complete loss of engine power while driving in traffic substantially affects the saftey of the occupants and vehicle.
What I "win" is a new replacement Jetta TDI. Perhaps a leftover 2009, but most likely a 2010.
They get this one back with 40k plus miles on it, try to figure out what the hell is wrong with it, and then I guess they re-sell it out of state. I honestly would have just prefered it if the 09 had just worked the way it should have from the get go.
I guess the process takes a month or so for everything to happen. VWOA needs to supply me with a new jetta tdi that is equipped the same as my current 09 Jetta TDI Loyal Edition.
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Great...now post your vin so when somebody else gets stuck with it they will have a place to start. Post vin after it is out of your possesion though:D
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Wow. Well I'm very happy to hear that you won. I hope your new car is nothing like this one.
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Sounds like a wonderful experience :-\. I'm sure they will just sell the car to some unsuspecting person.
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"All sunroofs rattle. Next isue."
That's funny!! My rabbit ( read: My rattly, shaky, vibrating, buzzing rabbit) has an aftermarket moonroof and it's never rattled :P.
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"All sunroofs rattle. Next isue."
I have to go Against VW with that one...Every VW I've ever owned with a sunroof has never rattled. Not even vibrated in cross winds or at high speeds...They where trying to make excuses to make you look bad and like a complainer and I think from what you have posted its going to keep us from buying a new VW anytime soon.
Congradulation on winning thou, hopefully the new car won't be lemon.
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The chairman told me the he did not want to hear one thing about the voided warranty due to the wrong oil being used. "Not a manufacturers defect." not one more thing about it.
What exactly are you to do then if a dealer won't do anything about it and the arbitration doesn't want to hear it? Basically from what this says is you must sue to get the right oil.
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I guess they mean it was not a manufactorers defect. I think a argument can be made about vw care free maintenance program. It comes with the car, the manufactor provides for it through its dealers. The cost is included in the purchase price of the car.
I am not sure what avenue you would use to go after a dealer who voided your warranty and damaged the engine by using the wrong oil. The owners manual is very clear that those are the results of using non 507 oil in the 09. I dont think small claims court would be able to go high enough. I guess you would have to hire a laywer and sue in court. I guess the real way to make it happen would be to get as many owners who could prove the wrong oil was used and go after the dealer in a mini class action suit.
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SO I get a letter from VW about the new car and turning in the old one. The interesting part is they are STILL fighting this! They added a section that says if the tires are worn more then 50% that they will not accept the car unless I purchase and install new tires. On top of that, they added a section that states I will abide by a non disclosure statement. I would only be able to talk about this experience to my accountant, lawyer, and immediate family unless I had written permission from VW!!!
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was polite but firm and explained in simple terms that since vw turned me down when I tried to use their arbitration format, I had to use the state provided public arbitration program.
I then explained that I won, and they lost.
I then explained that the award for a new car was not subject to me replacing all the wear issues on the car such as wipers, tires, brake pads etc... It states "Will supply a new car."
I told them I would not replace the tires . I also informed vw that I would not be subject to any non disclosure statement because again, I won. I told them I am free to discuss this information with anyone I choose in whatever format I choose. VW is going to "Look into this matter."
What a joke ::)
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Get the title and then fight more:D
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I hope it still has the power to chew the remaining tread off all its tires.
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No comment.....................
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:D Bit late for non-disclosure statements. Slippery, two-faced lying sluts. New VWs need warning stickers on them; Under no circumstances is this vehicle to be used for any purpose.
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No its: "Any misuse, use or abuse viods factory warrenty."
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Congratulations!!! You have accomplished no small feat here... I've been on the other side of that arbitration table (representing a company in some form or another) and believe me the average person stands little chance of satisfaction... Don't be a bit surprised if the slippery @#$&*ers still don;t try something even AFTER you have a car and title in hand.. Granted they have little legal recourse but they may still try to hassle and bully.. AS long as you keep documenting everything as you have been it'll be nothing.. If all else maybe you'd be safer selling the TDI and picking up a Toyota.. ;D
I'm so glad to be on the other side of the table as a lowly grease money just giving the facts.... It's horror stories like this that justify why I try to avoid buying cars newer than me.. Someone else has has 30 years to work the bugs out. ;D
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Thanks. I have learned that in dealing with VW that whatever they say or promise is worthless. Unless I have something in writing with the persons signiture on it, or proof that they sent the info to me by e-mail, they deny it. I have been told by the VW rep for the car replacement that they can not find a car that matches my spec's. I will need to order it and wait a few months. Doing so will of course violate the state order of replacement in 30 days. I figure if I am going to help out vw with their problem, they can help me out as well. If I agree to wait, the state will allow it. For my help, I think vw should throw in at no cost to me a 7 year 100,000 mile platinum dealer provided warranty. I think that would be fair.
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F- that, upgrade you to a Passat.
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F- that, upgrade you to a Passat.
X2 on that.. The dealer provided warranties are worth less than the paper they are written on...
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I had a loaner 2010 golf while my 92TD was getting fixed again and again (and again and again) for the same problem. What a piece of terd. My 93 audi is nicer and my wifes 91 previa was more fun even. I actually drove the previa one night instead of the golf. Yes you read that right, i beat the *** out of my own minivan rather than drive a 2010 golf owned by the very dealership that was dickin me around. It was way funner!!!
Get that new car and trade it in for a ur s6 or some sweet A8 . You will love yourself forever and will still have alot of change left over.
Its pretty sad the second biggest car manufacturer in the world can't even make a car in 2009 as good and reliable as the ones they made in the 1930's. Probably had better customer service back then too.
Sounds like your car was made by Bic.
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A couple updates:
Car has done the wierd engine surging thing yesterday and today. Same scenario both times. Short drive after a overnight sit. Engine was bucking pretty hard today, thought it might stall. When I parked it in the driveway I could hear the fans kicking in and a regen starting. I think this problem is definetly related to the regen process somehow, but something is going wrong somewhere.
I spoke to vwoa yesterday. What I find most annoying is the constant phrase they use,
"Well, you ARE getting a free car!"
Really? I seem to remember paying full sticker just a while ago.
Anyway, after doing some "research" vwoa has agreed to remove the non-disclosure statement and the tire wear clause from the paperwork. They claimed that they were confused and sent a settlement contract and not an award contract.
They then told me what the car would come with, and again they had left options off. I gave them the exact option codes to solve the problem.
I then told vwoa that I would like to add one option that did not come with the car, rear side airbags. I have 3 small children.
I was told it would be no problem, and was quoted the full price for the option. I asked that it be included free and was told no. I then said I would pay for the option at cost, but not full retail markup. I explained that since vwoa could not comply with the state order to supply a replacement car in 30 days, that I would be helping them by agreeing to go beyond the court order date and waiting another 60-90 days for the car to come in. I told them I thought it was a reasonable request on my part.
Vwoa resonse was I could just wait and if I didnt like it I would have to take a refund for the car minus the high mileage.
I had to explain again that they did not get to pick and choose how they would comply with the state order. I was told I could call the state and complain if I wanted to.
I requested that they send me a letter stating that vwoa was not able to comply with the state order to supply the car in the required 30 days. So far, I have not received the requested email from them. I will be back in contact with them today.
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That really blows. I'm glad my '06 tdi has been problem-free. I think as electronics and engine peripheral systems become more complicated, these sorts of unrepairable defects will increase (a la Toyota).
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I have no problem with parts of cars not working, there is not a car on the road that was perfect the first time it was released.
what really chaps my backside is when the auto manufacturer refuses to admit the problems exist(toyota, VW etc...)
when ford came out and admitted that their cruise control could catch fire, and had a solution(disabling cruise control) nobody thought worse of them for it, because they were honest about it.
but when an auto manufacturer denies there is an issue, when it is obviously and issue, it makes me wonder what else they are willing to lie about.
and I am sorry that you have had to deal with all the worst in car malfunctions and dealership sliminess.
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its been awhile and I'm a little Curious what VWOA did so far?
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Really sorry to read about your issues Subsonic.
I've been a VW nut since my Dad brought home a new 75 Dasher from Douglass Motors in Summit NJ (traded in his 73 Fastback)--been directly involved with many of my friends buying new VWs over many years (the most recent was a friend in Cumberland who purchased a 07 Passat 2,0T from Clair in Saco). I've kept my 93 VR6 Passat (with a persnickety 096 trans I've rebuilt myself) on the road for 8 years (and an 83 Jetta TD, 95 Golf, 99 Passat, 89 Jetta, etc, etc).
My best friend who lives in Manhattan was ready to replace his 2002 Jetta (01M was failing at 130K miles) in June--on my advice he had purchased 3 new VW's over an 18 year period. This time around I steered him towards a Honda. He and his wife now have a CR-V.
I've been party to, and heard of, too many stories like your own experience with VW lately.
I really hope the insanity stops soon. Really depressing.
Best of luck to you!
Geoff
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Gotta buy the cars that are pre-volkswagenmessingaroundandbecomingagreedysupergiantcompany ;)
Mk1 all the way :)
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VW never complied with the Motor Vehicle Arbitration Boards decision. I finally have hired a lawyer to handle the case. Lawyer sent them a demand letter telling them they are in clear violation of the consumer protection law and guilty of unfair and deceptive trade practices. VW is liable for triple damages plus court costs plus lawyers fee's. Thats the state law in NH. I asked for 2x so we could have a speedy resolution. Vw responded with a basic up yours letter. Looks like we file suit in court. This may drag on for a year or two. Just great.
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The only word I can think of right now starts with F... I can;t believe they would be like that, its been 6 months since the arbitration. I'd sue them for a completly Free car.
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>:( Farking WEAK.
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WOW reallY? New VWOA is really not getting my approval.. however.. I still love VW's ;) lol
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Update?
I suppose your lawyer has requested that you keep quiet till its all taken care of though :-/
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All I can say is WOW.
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30,000 miles and no severe problems on my 2009 Jetta TDI.
Sorry your car is a lemon.
Shame on VW for not standing by its product.
Hope your lawyer gets you a victory. Good Luck.
Stay safe, stay well. Jimmy.
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I think at this point when you go to court, demand all the fees and whatnot, 2x your money back, and that they buy you a Ford and have Mike Rowe deliver it to you.... ;D
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Whatever happened here? Just read through it all, and man, what a drag! :(
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I haven;t seen subsonic on here in a while, but I too am curious how he made out...