Audi 5000 Turbo Quattro Wagon to tdi/td? - page 1 - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Audi 5000 Turbo Quattro Wagon to tdi/td? by Slave2School on 01 Aug, 2007 05:48
• Hey experts, what do you guys know about such a swap?  I know the audi 5000/100/200? came with a tdi at some point but I'm unsure what would be involved to mate up to a 5cyl tranny etc.  Tell me what you know, I need a larger family car!  
  
  Anyone?  is the t44 similar to the passat syncro?  I know there is someone with a passat syncro TDI in quebec.
• #1 by Kneale Brownson on 01 Aug, 2007 08:25
• I think the Audi would be more spacious than the VW.
  
  However, wouldn't you need to change out the entire fuel system, like the fuel tank, lines, etc., to run diesel?  What engine would you use then?  The Audi 5000 diesel (yes, there was one in the early 1980s), was quite a dog performance wise.  And I don't think it had the quattro driveline if you're thinking of AWD.  Quattro adds quite a bit of weight and performance-sucking drag on the engine output.  That's why all the quattros had turbos or lots of cylinders.
• #2 by Slave2School on 01 Aug, 2007 12:41
• Quote from: "Kneale Brownson"

  I think the Audi would be more spacious than the VW.
  
  However, wouldn't you need to change out the entire fuel system, like the fuel tank, lines, etc., to run diesel?  What engine would you use then?  The Audi 5000 diesel (yes, there was one in the early 1980s), was quite a dog performance wise.  And I don't think it had the quattro driveline if you're thinking of AWD.  Quattro adds quite a bit of weight and performance-sucking drag on the engine output.  That's why all the quattros had turbos or lots of cylinders.

  
  
  No need to change out the fuel tank/lines till you get closer to the front in my opinion, and they can all be cleaned out witha  throrough drain/diesel flush.  In europe the audi 5000/100 had a 90hp 4cyl TDI, but it was only FWD to my knowledge.  What would be really interesting is to find what diffentials could be fitted to the quattro tranny to get teh gearing taller and what bellhousings would swap to accept a 4cly vs teh 5cyl 2.2Turbo that is in the car now.  I havn't picked it up, but it is currently runnigna nd has an inspection on it till the end of the month, so it might not be that bad a shape.  "Only" 240k km's on it too lol.
  
  thanks for the help.
• #3 by houseofdiesel on 01 Aug, 2007 13:13
• Umm, okay 5000 turbo diesel were not dogs, they were faster then the gas automatic and way more fun to drive. I do know this for a fact I have a sales brochure somewhere with the 0-100km times td was faster and I have owned/driven both.
  Diesels also have more torque too, so the quattro drivetrain is way more suited to a diesel then a gas motor (especially the higher revving motors Audi makes with hardly any low end torque).
  I have two of the 2.0L 5 cyl td motors sitting at home waiting to do the same thing, I have 4 5000tq sedans sitting around in various states...
  They have nothing in common with the Passat syncro, the Passat is tranverse and horrible to drive in comparsion (sorry but they handle like a front drive car and the motor flip flops with the throttle application by design) plus a much lighter duty car, very few cars were built as well as the type 44 audi I pull up to 5000 lbs with mine and it outhandles pretty much every other driver on the road...it is a very heavy car though and you do feel it when cornering.
  Be prepared for the Audiness that comes with a 20 year old car though, over 40 bushings in the suspension on the car, control arms not servicable ball joints,  door handle and door wiring issues, general problems all 20 year old cars have too. However it should be the most rust free car you have ever seen, the galvanized bodies are still perfect on most of mine unless the car was repainted (I don't know of one repainted Audi that did not rust after painting, body guys just don't understand how to paint galvinized steel). The floors/rockers were also well protected more so then any car I have owned/seen.
  Very quiet car on the road, very spacious, steering is not up to BMW or Mercedes standards but still better then most cars, suspension is perfect especially for high speed driving (over 100mph). You don't have to worry about trans or diff gearing in the turbo models, 3000 rpm is way up there like 90 mph or more...cruising at 60mph is just over 2000 rpm perfect for a diesel. Fuel system would not be to hard to convert, just a revised sending unit as the high pressure pump is inside the tank and delete the accumulator under the rear seat area.
  I don't think you will find an adapter plate in north america for the 5 cyl bell, but I have heard the 01A trans in the 80/90 series is compatible with the tdi or AAZ 1.9 and the A4 01E trans also. I prefer the bigger cars though. More info to come have to work
• #4 by Slave2School on 01 Aug, 2007 13:19
• Thank you HOD!  I would not attempt any of this on my own of course and this all depends on the shape of the car I am going to look at tonight.  I am pretty handy and can sort out alot of electrical issues so I don't mind some quirks  My friend is a VW/audi mechanic so I would likely pay him to do any/all major work for me if I could find a bolt in solution at some point.
  
  First thing first I look at the car I am thinking of tonight.  I hope it is OK even if it is a gasser since I could use some more room for the kids.
• #5 by houseofdiesel on 01 Aug, 2007 13:24
• Umm, okay 5000 turbo diesel were not dogs, they were faster then the gas automatic and way more fun to drive. I do know this for a fact I have a sales brochure somewhere with the 0-100km times td was faster and I have owned/driven both.
  Diesels also have more torque too, so the quattro drivetrain is way more suited to a diesel then a gas motor (especially the higher revving motors Audi makes with hardly any low end torque).
  I have two of the 2.0L 5 cyl td motors sitting at home waiting to do the same thing, I have 4 5000tq sedans sitting around in various states...
  They have nothing in common with the Passat syncro, the Passat is tranverse and horrible to drive in comparsion (sorry but they handle like a front drive car and the motor flip flops with the throttle application by design) plus a much lighter duty car, very few cars were built as well as the type 44 audi I pull up to 5000 lbs with mine and it outhandles pretty much every other driver on the road...it is a very heavy car though and you do feel it when cornering.
  Be prepared for the Audiness that comes with a 20 year old car though, over 40 bushings in the suspension on the car, control arms not servicable ball joints,  door handle and door wiring issues, general problems all 20 year old cars have too. However it should be the most rust free car you have ever seen, the galvanized bodies are still perfect on most of mine unless the car was repainted (I don't know of one repainted Audi that did not rust after painting, body guys just don't understand how to paint galvinized steel). The floors/rockers were also well protected more so then any car I have owned/seen.
  Very quiet car on the road, very spacious, steering is not up to BMW or Mercedes standards but still better then most cars, suspension is perfect especially for high speed driving (over 100mph). You don't have to worry about trans or diff gearing in the turbo models, 3000 rpm is way up there like 90 mph or more...cruising at 60mph is just over 2000 rpm perfect for a diesel. Fuel system would not be to hard to convert, just a revised sending unit as the high pressure pump is inside the tank and delete the accumulator under the rear seat area.
  I don't think you will find an adapter plate in north america for the 5 cyl bell, but I have heard the 01A trans in the 80/90 series is compatible with the tdi or AAZ 1.9 and the A4 01E trans also. I prefer the bigger cars though. More info to come have to work
• #6 by Kneale Brownson on 01 Aug, 2007 13:54
• I thought the TD version of the 5000 was sold in North America only in 1983, which I understood was the last year Audi sold a diesel here.  Before 83 they sold NA diesel 5000s for a couple years, I thought.  
  
  Anyway, I thought there was a fuel tank problem with installing diesels in gas vehicles.
• #7 by Slave2School on 01 Aug, 2007 13:57
• The only "problem" per se is that you need to take the restricotr out of the nozzle hole or use the tiny little ones that aren't at trucks stops with a ball point pen to hold the flap open
• #8 by lord_verminaard on 01 Aug, 2007 13:58
• Also, you could probably swap the 5-cylinder TDI engine directly in-place of the 5-cyl.  IDI engine.  I think you can only get the 5-cylinder TDI's in europe, but I think they were also offered in marine/industrial form.  One guy on the TDI-club in europe is making nearly 300hp in one, and it's in a Van.  
  
  Brendan
• #9 by Slave2School on 01 Aug, 2007 14:18
• Very interesting.  I would like to see if there is something "domestic" lol, that would fit in the beast because I can only imagine the costs.  I'm not even against a 1.9TD conversion if someone pointed me in the direction of how the heck the tranny-engine could mate up.  My mechanic/friend is handy and has a garage with a welder etc and I'm in no rush.   This is all just talk (a dream of mine to have a diesel quattro wagon!) since I don't even have a car yet haha.
• #10 by Slave2School on 01 Aug, 2007 15:19
• Well I looked at the car and drove it.  It appears to be pretty solid, a bit of surface corrosion on the rear hatch lip and the right rear quarter window has a small hole in the bottom left corner.  Basically I think this one is destined to only be a winter beater unless I pay to have a bit of professional body work done to it.
  
  The headliner is still intact, all the electrical systems appear to work (even the memory seats and electric moon roof and all four windows!)  Rear hatch won't open he said the cable/something had to be fixed once before...(is that common?).  The seats have some tears but I wasn't expecting miracles (power seats by the way too lol).  The only electrical item I tried that didn't work was th radio anc cigaret lighter socket (I think a fuse is gone) along with drivers side heat, so probably a busted heating unit.  If my mechanic friend gives it a look over and sees no big issues I might go for it.  I wasn't expecting a whole lot for the money.
  
  I drove it and it goes straight...what a HEAVY car indeed, not much pep till 3000-4500rpm and certainly geared tall.  Clutch felt fine and awd seemed to work when I ripped around a corner and nailed it
• #11 by Slave2School on 01 Aug, 2007 19:28
• My search for a larger family car continues...the audi looked good, drove great, but upon closer inspection had been painted and had questionable body work done to it, brake lines were rusty etc.  The guy is inflexible in his price, so he can keep it lol...in the mean time I will continue to rock the Golf
• #12 by bigblockchev on 01 Aug, 2007 20:45
• You might want to consider a Mercedes 300D they do exist in late 80s or early 90s vintage with either a 2.5L 5 cyl or a 3L 6 cyl ( there is also a 3.4L 6cyl but you want to avoid that one they call it the rodbender) I got a 91 300D out of Japan for my wife & she loves it. A bit pricy but cheaper than a new Toyota Yaris and way better quality. Easier to figure out than swapping motors into vehicles that never had them. I have done that several times and it always works out more expensive than you think it is going to be. Cheers Dan
• #13 by Slave2School on 01 Aug, 2007 22:38
• Thanks Dan, that might be a better way to go if I can keep my eyes open.  Heck even a  cheap TDI passat with a body on it...wait that isn't going to happen
• #14 by nkb on 03 Aug, 2007 21:00
• i know where a 87-88 bmw 324td is. probably cheap too