cold weather starting

[chrissev]

this is really ticking me off...  I hear about people starting at -30C HOW!!!

my engine barely cranks over!!!!!!!!!!  900CCA battery in there, is that the problem?  Its only -20C here and I need my car to start

I cranked it about 3 times, and now my starter sounds like it was wounded... lol?  I'm hoping its the battery, but its a sears die hard!  The ones on those commercials you see starting big trucks..  -40C cold cranking power.

Would it be worth putting 10w30 in the engine and or finding a 1200CCA battery? Does anyone have any tricks to start it this cold?  I think my starter is going as well...  This is VERY frustrating, as my gas golf would start right up no matter how cold it could get here (god bless mechanical fuel injection!)

regarding your problems.  Your car could be suffering from any number (or combination) of issues.  The most common reasons why diesel engines won't start when cold are:  1 or more bad glow plugs, low compression, bad wiring (particularly the ground to the transmission from the battery), bad starter, wrong oil.  So, what to do?

My car has a fresh rebuilt 1.6 diesel with a turbo.  It has a brand new 800cca battery, new cables, rebuilt starter, sanded grounding points, 5W40 synthetic oil, and four new glow plugs.  It starts in -23 degree weather without a block heater.  So that is what the car is capable of, if everything is good under the hood.

The easiest thing to start with is the electrical connections.  Just remove them one by one and sand them down till you get smooth, shiny metal.  I cover mine with grease so they don't rust.  Some people paint them.  Others soder them.  As long as you can keep the rust off of them, you are laughing.  

If that doesn't help, replace your starter.  Also check your glow plugs and put some low temperature synthetic oil in the engine so it turns easily.  

If the car still won't start, then take out the injectors and check the compression.  If it is low, then that is the problem.  Diesels are compression ignition engines with no external ignition system.  They operate at around 4 times the compression of a gas engine, and they need the extra compression to super heat the air, so that when the fuel is injected, it spontaneously combusts.  If the compression is too low, then the air won't be hot enough to get combustion and the engine won't start.  The only solution is to replace the rings.  

chris

[jtanguay]

man i dont really care about compression or any bs.. can i just put a bigger starter and force the damn thing to start? lol...  who needs glow plugs... bigger compression!!!!!!!!!

my guess is that nobody makes a bigger starter for the 1986 vw jetta 1.6 TD (mechanical lifter if that makes a diff)

[62 MPG]

[jtanguay wrote]
man i dont really care about compression or any bs.. can i just put a bigger starter and force the damn thing to start? lol... who needs glow plugs... bigger compression!!!!!!!!!

jtanguay why would you responed to chrissev with man i don`t really care about compression or any BS!.chrissev took the time to try to help you out with some excellent advice and routes to your problems.You my be frustrated with your cars issuses but every one is just trying to help you.If you responded to me like that I would rip you and that would be the last time I would try to help you.I would say that your starter is the problem if you care.

PS Your RIGHT who needs glow plugs just wait till JUNE!!

[jtanguay]

that wasnt a direct reply to chrissev!!!  Don't ass-u-me please.  i'm having a hard enough time getting my car going (its embarassing when you have a car, but you cant drive it?!)...  I appreciate any help I receive here.

sorry if my post was a bit rude, but I'm wondering if anyone has found a simple way to put a bigger starter in a vw...  I really want to try that!!!  that is all i meant.  

i was thinking of putting it as another topic, but i wanted to leave the post in this topic i've already created, so yea unless i quote chrissev, i'm not directly replying to him thank you.

[dieselpower]

ok,
i've been having the same problems lately too. i have 0w 40 oil in it, i have a good battery as far as i kno...it tested good and when boosted from another vehical it doesnt make much of a difference, i just replaced the ground and lead wire off the battery, and i had about 4 different starters in it with no difference. and it WILL NOT crank over fast enough to start. like i just drove home, and replaced the wires with new ones and even with the oil warm, it still wont crank. with my car up on one block and in 5th gear i can spin the engine relatively easy, definately easy enough for the starter to turn it, but it still wont crank. is there anything else that can affect the ability of the engine to turn over? i think it might be my starter but im not too sure, the one i put in it now has very few miles on it. i put a new 16v 2L starter in it and it helped a bit but it was still pretty slow at cranking.
THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP

Mark

[QuickTD]

i put a new 16v 2L starter in it and it helped a bit but it was still pretty slow at cranking.

The highest power gasser starter is 1.1kw. The diesel starter is rated 1.8kw, thats a whole bunch more power. I would lean toward the old wound field direct drive type rather than the gear reduction unit, but any diesel starter will be worlds better than the best of the gas starters.

[jtanguay]

thanks for the info.   Direct drive sounds like the one I should get.   What would be neat is to get a v8 diesel starter and put it on .. with enough juice... it would start no problems  nobody has done experiments on bigger starters... at all?

[dieselpower]

ok,
i had an old worn out diesel starter on it and i replaced it with a new gas starter cuz its all i had at the time. now i put a new diesel starter on it and it works better. the problem is my battery tho. it tested good, but i got a charger from a dealer somewhere and it charges up to 60 amps...its a huge unit. anyway i chareged it at 40 amps for 30 seconds then turned the key and HOLY!! i've never heard or seen any car crank as fast as mine did. i have a 650cca battery by the way. so all you need is a good, CHARGED, battery and your all set.

Mark

[jtanguay]

but what was the temp?

[chrissev]

man i dont really care about compression or any bs.. can i just put a bigger starter and force the damn thing to start? lol...  who needs glow plugs... bigger compression!!!!!!!!!

my guess is that nobody makes a bigger starter for the 1986 vw jetta 1.6 TD (mechanical lifter if that makes a diff)

If you're going to use brute force to get an old diesel with low compression to start in the cold, you need endurance rather than speed for your cranking.  I used to get my old 79 rabbit started in the cold by towing it behind a friend's pick up truck and letting the clutch out in 2nd gear and just waiting till the engine fired up.  If you crank it over long enough, it will start, the problem is the battery usually wears down before this happens, or you burn out the starter.  One thing to remember is NEVER pull out the cold start lever until after the engine is running.  It won't start if you do this, because this advances the timing, meaning the fuel is injected before the piston reaches TDC, and before the compressed air in the cylinder is as hot as it's going to get.  After it is running, then you pull out the lever to  advance the timing to make it run a bit faster until it warms up.  For endurance and lots of sustained cranking ability you need a big battery and a starter in good condition.  Some people wire multiple batteries in series to give them extra cranking ability.  I used to just bring the battery from my old rabbit inside at night so it was warm by the time morning came, then I brought it back out and put it in the car all warmed up from being in the house.  The car started like a charm when I did that.  Only problem is the battery is quite heavy so it is a chore doing this.

[jtanguay]

hmmm chrissev are you sure the car wont start with cold lever pulled out?  I find that my car won't start with it pushed in?  I keep reading that the lever should be pulled out only after the engine is started.  The engine runs so rough and just dies with cold start pushed in, and seems like it misfires at idle until warm.  

but like i said... i just pull it out and she turns on after 2 cranks (when it isnt super cold...)

thanks again for all your help!

[QuickTD]

hmmm chrissev are you sure the car wont start with cold lever pulled out? I find that my car won't start with it pushed in? I keep reading that the lever should be pulled out only after the engine is started. The engine runs so rough and just dies with cold start pushed in, and seems like it misfires at idle until warm.

Mine is the same way, it absolutely will not start unless the advance is pulled out in the extreme cold. It will just keep sputtering and will never run on its own without it. With it pulled out it fires instantly and idles smoothly. I think whether or not the timing advance helps probably depends alot on your base timing settings. Could be a bit different for everybody.

[chrissev]

hmmm chrissev are you sure the car wont start with cold lever pulled out?  I find that my car won't start with it pushed in?  I keep reading that the lever should be pulled out only after the engine is started.  The engine runs so rough and just dies with cold start pushed in, and seems like it misfires at idle until warm.  

but like i said... i just pull it out and she turns on after 2 cranks (when it isnt super cold...)

thanks again for all your help!

Hmmm, well if it works for you.  Next time your car won't start, try this:  keep the cold start lever pushed in, and crank it over.  As soon as it kicks, push the accelerator pedal half way down and pull out the lever.  You have to do it really quickly.  It should start.  I don't mean wait until the engine is idling normally to pull out the lever, I mean wait until you have a kick from the engine.

[chrissev]

hmmm chrissev are you sure the car wont start with cold lever pulled out? I find that my car won't start with it pushed in? I keep reading that the lever should be pulled out only after the engine is started. The engine runs so rough and just dies with cold start pushed in, and seems like it misfires at idle until warm.

Mine is the same way, it absolutely will not start unless the advance is pulled out in the extreme cold. It will just keep sputtering and will never run on its own without it. With it pulled out it fires instantly and idles smoothly. I think whether or not the timing advance helps probably depends alot on your base timing settings. Could be a bit different for everybody.

I find the opposite.  Pull out the lever and crank it, it acts like it will start, but never does.  Keep lever pushed in and crank, it will kick and then if I pull out the lever quickly and give it some fuel with the accelerator, it runs.  A lot of people have trouble accepting this concept because they are used to manual choke gasoline cars where you have to pull out the choke before you start the car.  Diesels are really different engines and you can't treat them like a gas engine.  You've got to learn to think differently about them when you are trying to start them.

[jtanguay]

what if you timed your engine with the cold start pulled out.  Wouldnt that affect it?  (i think my mechanic timed mine with it pulled out.. not quite sure)

just a thought...

thanks again chrissev and quicktd i'll try that trick