M-TDI, Another one.

[Baxter]

Hi guys, though I had registered here, but obviously not..
Anyway, Im running a VW T3 with a 1Z with mechanical injection, just thought I would post here what I have had built incase any of the details are of any use to you.
Oh, Im in the UK so some of the language I use you may be unfamiliar with, sorry, I copied and pasted this from another forum  
http://p067.ezboard.com/fclub8090chatfrm6.showMessage?topicID=451.topic
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This hybrid pump of mine consist of..
Ford escort 1.8d injection pump body.
20mm drive shaft.
TDI cam plate.
Perkins Prima Head and rotor (11mm)
Transporter 1.6td governor body and LDA.
pump timing set to .9mm lift at TDC
.205 injectors (110hp)

So, ive got what looks like a standard VW installation, if you glance in the engine bay you would think that it was meant to be there!

The van was a JX (1.6TD) so all mountings, pipes etc have been kept.
JX turbo, wound up to .9bar boost
really badly installed intercooler.
Hybrid pump.
No messing with mountings, just bolts up!
Hybrid 228mm clutch.

So, it all fits under the standard lid, and as I said, looks factory, well except that I really should mount the air box properly, but didn't want to spend ages on it if the engine wasn't staying, same for intercooler!

For the first time in ages I over took someone yesterday and even got stuck behind an unladen merc sprinter (you know how quick they are!) going up Holme Moss (gert big hill)

I've stuck a tenner in it, driven 'kin miles and the guage hasn't moved!

Its starts instantly, no need for glow plugs!

As a bodge I have used the standard JX glow system, but they work for far too long, need to either put a resistor inline to the sender to confuse the relay into thinking its warmer or invest in a cold start control unit from a TDi.

Not been on a motorway yet but going to Scotland in the morning to baptism of fire to follow!

No smoke (well, except for the rings, but that oil not fuel!), no noise, no commotion, it's really smooth.

More to follow when I've twatted it up the motorway, wonder if I get red hot sparks out of the exhaust like I used to?
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Second post...

 Well...
I've run out of gears, van keeps pulling and pulling.
Engine pulls hard at 2500 rpm and carries on to well over 4000rpm
More than happy sat at 70mph, trouble is that it's revving at about 3800 rpm at that speed.
Wound it up to 80 with no big drama's, just could do with a differant box in it, then it wouldn't be revving it's knackers off.
Dunno what everyone else gets from their diesel vans, I seem to be getting about 100 miles for a tenners worth of fuel, I need to go do some sums but initially Im happy considering the price of diesel at the moment.
Starts instantly with no need for glow plugs.
Need to trim back the turbo a little, noticed today in places it was creeping up to 1.1 bar, probably safe at this but just going to knock it back a tad.
oil temp is low, well it's a load higher than it used to be, I would have to drive half way accross the country in the summer to get 50 degrees C, new it sits at 50 degrees C and goes up to about 80 when it's working.
Now I have a bench mark I may start advancing the pump timing, Im sure theres more to come yet!!
As for rolling road, yep, Fancy a power run, may even get an hour on the rollers if the place I take it can deal with Diesels.
I have driven loads of TDi's (Im a mechanic) and I would say it is down on power for a 110, but I have a load more weight to haul about then theres the gearing in a van.
Engine may go in new van now it runs something like, so chances are that I will build a 4 speed gearbox and not use one of the awful 5 speeders! Hope fully a 4 speed 099 box, with tall ring and pinion, and if it will go a locking diff for my winter jaunts up the alps.

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Third post.. Pictures!







Hope that may be of some use to you guys, I think it says up there that I didn't build the pump myself, I just work in a car dealership, all our deisel work is subcontracted out as we don't have the training or equipment to do it ourselves, this has been a big learning curve!

[Piper106]

A big thumbs up for getting a M-TDI actually on the road.

For those of us looking for parts to build our own, could you share the 0 460 xxx xxx Bosch part number from the Escort injection pump you used as the starting point??

Piper106

[leprechan]

I spotted a similar pump on ebay that came off of a ford tempo.  It may have potential for a m-tdi so I thought I would give you guys the heads up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33555&item=7949252937

[MacGyver]

Be careful, leprechan...the Ford Tempo diesels drove their pumps off the back of the camshaft...they drive in the opposite direction (reverse rotation) of VW diesels :!:

[QuickTD]

North american escort/tempo pumps also have 2 bolt housings and won't bolt up to a 3 bolt VW pump bracket. strangely enough they have 20mm driveshafts though. Plunger size is tiny @ 8mm.

[Baxter]

No problem, I'll get the numbers next time Im having a nosey under the lid!
Ford Europe made a 1.6 and a 1.8 Diesel engine, they fitted it to MKIII fiesta's and MKIV,V escorts respectivley, they also did a 1.8TD I think, this was used in all sorts of cars and the engine has been around in some guise or another for a good few years, the engines are fitted to cars that are in the scrap yards here - alot! Im sure you won't have trouble in finding one (or 2 or 3 or....)
The Perkins Prima again is fitted to loads of vehicles, Austin Maestro, Austin Montego, Sherpa (I think) and LDV 200, apparently there are 2 kinds of injection, single stage and 2 stage injection, I feel sure the bloke that bullt the pump said get the single stage one, this can be recognised by the position of the leak of pipe on the injectors, but it's been a while!
Is there any for of Bosch CD Rom, like a parts disc or something? Im sure I've seen mention somewhere, would like to get hold of one.
The JX pump top isn't really needed, Im sure a Golf one would be better as it can be adjusted more, change cams etc, more adjustable, the JX one is set up for a 1.6TD transporter, it's somewhere near for TDI but not bang on, using a Golf one would make it more adjustable, and tunable. allegedly..

[Smog]

North american escort/tempo pumps also have 2 bolt housings and won't bolt up to a 3 bolt VW pump bracket. strangely enough they have 20mm driveshafts though. Plunger size is tiny @ 8mm.

why everybody want to get the pump with the 20mm driveshaft.....

just give me names of people who broke a 1.6/1.9TD driveshaft in a TDI setup. (Yes, I know that Simon Cooper broke one on his 200hp setup but I want more than one name)

it look like another Internet legend

[QuickTD]

One reason, the 20mm DI driveshaft and housing fits the TDI camplate, head and plunger properly.

[Smog]

One reason, the 20mm DI driveshaft and housing fits the TDI camplate, head and plunger properly.

but the TDI engine is running perfect with the 1.9TD camplate and the 1.9TD camplate fits the TDI head and plunger....


please find a better reason to justify the 20mm DI Driveshaft

[QuickTD]

Smog, if you're happy with your 90hp mechanical TDI, so be it. There are lots of others that are happy with thier 90hp TDI's as well. VW has sold thousands. You have to keep in mind this is the GTD forum. We talk performance here. If your mechanical TDI can't make at least 120hp then as far as I'm concerned you are doing it wrong.    With 20lbs of boost I'm sure I can make 120hp with a 1.9TD, without the hassle of swapping engines. I can also plug a chip into the TDI ECM and get similar or better power. Why bother with the mechanical setup to get stock power? Are you guys really that afraid of the wiring?

 Anyway, that's my mindset. Setups that run "OK" or "fine" or "acceptably" or even "perfectly" don't thrill me much... I'm here to live vicariously through others. I don't have a mechanical TDI yet, make me want one, BAD.  I want your engines to be all they can be. Mechanical TDI's that will lay rubber into 4th gear are interesting to me. I wan't to hear about problems relating to keeping the head gasket in or the connecting rods from bending. Thats performance! :twisted:  I could be wrong, but I don't think the 1.9TD pump equipped folks need apply.

[Smog]

Smog, if you're happy with your 90hp mechanical TDI, so be it. There are lots of others that are happy with thier 90hp TDI's as well. VW has sold thousands. You have to keep in mind this is the GTD forum. We talk performance here. If your mechanical TDI can't make at least 120hp then as far as I'm concerned you are doing it wrong.    With 20lbs of boost I'm sure I can make 120hp with a 1.9TD, without the hassle of swapping engines. I can also plug a chip into the TDI ECM and get similar or better power. Why bother with the mechanical setup to get stock power? Are you guys really that afraid of the wiring?

 Anyway, that's my mindset. Setups that run "OK" or "fine" or "acceptably" or even "perfectly" don't thrill me much... I'm here to live vicariously through others. I don't have a mechanical TDI yet, make me want one, BAD.  I want your engines to be all they can be. Mechanical TDI's that will lay rubber into 4th gear are interesting to me. I wan't to hear about problems relating to keeping the head gasket in or the connecting rods from bending. Thats performance! :twisted:  I could be wrong, but I don't think the 1.9TD pump equipped folks need apply.

the stock 1.9TD pump with maxed out settings is faster on the TDI engine than it was on the 1.9TD. and the TDI engine is faster than stock with a maxed out 1.9TD pump. so far the problem with going to a bigger plunger was to keep a decent idle.


as for laying rubber in 4th, my own VNT equiped 360lb.ft torque monster TDI wasn't able to do it so I doubt a mechanical TDI will ever be able unless it rolls on 155r13 hard rubber tires.


the point with a mechanical setup is to be able to replace a failed high priced 1.9TD with a low miles bargain cheap A4 TDI engine without swapping the whole harness and start changing MAFs and vnt turbos.

[Baxter]

Pump body number 0460 494 122

[neich]

Pump body number 0460 494 122

That pump is from a Ford Escort-Fiesta-Orion 1.6D

If you had a vanagon diesel, why use a Ford body pump instead of the original 1.6TD pump ?

Nacho

[caddy]

Pump body number 0460 494 122

That pump is from a Ford Escort-Fiesta-Orion 1.6D

If you had a vanagon diesel, why use a Ford body pump instead of the original 1.6TD pump ?

Nacho

i think is to have a 20mm drive shaft.

[Baxter]

Yep, he did it for the 20mm drive shaft.
I've been running this engine now for 2 years in mechanical form although the first attempts at the pump were poor.
Apparently, when I took it to another Diesel place they said that I had a part in the governer that instead of increasing fuelling it was cutting fuel back too early.
Does that make sense?
Thats why he had to use parts of a Perkins Prima pump to get it to do the right thing.