Author Topic: Ball bearing turbos ?? (Read 8552 times)

stewardc · « **on:** May 16, 2007, 08:58:23 am »

Can someone explain the advantage of a ball bearing turbo over a standard turbo?
Did VW ever use ball bearing turbos on their engines?
What Ball bearing turbo will fit on an AAZ?

Benjamin · « **Reply #1 on:** May 16, 2007, 09:02:35 am »

Greetz, Benjamin

stewardc · « **Reply #2 on:** May 16, 2007, 09:33:52 am »

That's what I needed. Now, to bug a Garrett dealer to see what new modern turbo matches the old T3.

Benjamin · « **Reply #3 on:** May 16, 2007, 11:03:34 am »

My opinion is better go for a VNT, thay are GT technology and can handle a big boost also. fast spooling, i think faster than BallBearing.

Greetz, Benjamin

jtanguay · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2007, 11:17:24 am »

i think the new type of bearing will be the magnetic bearing... zero friction? yea baby!!! but of course it will be just another draw on the electrical system... i wonder how much power it would require??? feasible???

man zero friction would be sweet... imagine a turbo that responds instantly... i mean.. wouldn't it already be spinning at idle?

a company has already patented the technology for use in computer case fans... very low noise, and the fan will virtually last forever...

stewardc · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2007, 11:33:20 am »

Quote from: Benjamin

My opinion is better go for a VNT, thay are GT technology and can handle a big boost also. fast spooling, i think faster than BallBearing.

Greetz, Benjamin

Not interested....keep it simple is my motto. :oops:

Turbinepowered · « **Reply #6 on:** May 16, 2007, 12:17:44 pm »

Quote from: "jtanguay"

i think the new type of bearing will be the magnetic bearing... zero friction? yea baby!!! but of course it will be just another draw on the electrical system... i wonder how much power it would require??? feasible???

man zero friction would be sweet... imagine a turbo that responds instantly... i mean.. wouldn't it already be spinning at idle?

a company has already patented the technology for use in computer case fans... very low noise, and the fan will virtually last forever...

Magnetic bearings may be "no friction" but they certainly aren't "no resistance" bearings. You can generate significant EM resistance by spinning a magnetized object within a magnetic field. Same for Electromagnets.

Some turbine engines are going to "air-foil" bearings, which might be the way that turbos go; at low RPMs the shaft is supported by a corrugated, lubricated foil and a cushion of air. At high RPMs the foil flattens, and the shaft is riding on nothing but the air cushion. The resistance in those setups is frighteningly low...

DVST8R · « **Reply #7 on:** May 16, 2007, 05:26:31 pm »

Quote from: "stewardc"

Quote from: "Benjamin"
My opinion is better go for a VNT, thay are GT technology and can handle a big boost also. fast spooling, i think faster than BallBearing.

Greetz, Benjamin

Not interested....keep it simple is my motto. :oops:

GT20 48 trim , or 52 trim. Are a good match.

Unfortunately ball bearing center sections don't happen until the GT25, which is starting to get a little big for dailey use. With that being said the compressor technology has come leaps and bounds since the old T3 making any GT series turbo worth the $$$ IMHO.

jtanguay · « **Reply #8 on:** May 16, 2007, 06:55:06 pm »

maglev trains use electromagnets to float... the resistance isn't that much... i've also heard of plans to make a maglev train in a vacuum sealed tunnel... no friction means endless speed potential.

i can see a few problems with using an air cushion as a bearing replacement... hit a nice bump and the wheels will probably smack something.

stewardc · « **Reply #9 on:** May 17, 2007, 04:36:22 am »

Quote from: "DVST8R"

Quote from: "stewardc"
Quote from: "Benjamin"
My opinion is better go for a VNT, thay are GT technology and can handle a big boost also. fast spooling, i think faster than BallBearing.

Greetz, Benjamin

Not interested....keep it simple is my motto. :oops:

GT20 48 trim , or 52 trim. Are a good match.

Unfortunately ball bearing center sections don't happen until the GT25, which is starting to get a little big for dailey use. With that being said the compressor technology has come leaps and bounds since the old T3 making any GT series turbo worth the $$$ IMHO.

I've heard that the K03 on the early TDIs was ball bearing. Do you know if that's true?

QuickTD · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2007, 04:51:39 am »

Quote

I've heard that the K03 on the early TDIs was ball bearing. Do you know if that's true?

No. I've seen them apart. The TDI K03 bearing differs slightly in the oil drillings from the AAZ K03, but it's a conventional plain bearing.

stewardc · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2007, 07:13:46 am »

Quote from: "libbybapa"

Quote from: "stewardc"
Quote from: "Benjamin"
My opinion is better go for a VNT, thay are GT technology and can handle a big boost also. fast spooling, i think faster than BallBearing.

Greetz, Benjamin

Not interested....keep it simple is my motto. :oops:

Fairly remarkable irony there.

Andrew

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. What I meant is I don't need variable (read: complex) anything, just a plain old everyday turbo. Simple.

jtanguay · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2007, 07:27:30 am »

Quote from: "stewardc"

Quote from: "libbybapa"
Quote from: "stewardc"
Quote from: "Benjamin"
My opinion is better go for a VNT, thay are GT technology and can handle a big boost also. fast spooling, i think faster than BallBearing.

Greetz, Benjamin

Not interested....keep it simple is my motto. :oops:

Fairly remarkable irony there.

Andrew

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. What I meant is I don't need variable (read: complex) anything, just a plain old everyday turbo. Simple.

but have you seen some of the setup's for the VNT system??? andrew had a pretty decent setup, and boost is almost instant. you shouldn't disprove so hastely! i myself want to give it a shot as well, but i have a more interesting way of controlling it (pretty much the same way but a simplified version)

i also really like the idea of using the accelerator cable to control the vanes because it allows the driver to completely actuate the vanes so that they don't get 'sticky'... kind of like what the ECU does (it fully actuates the vanes to clear them out on startup...) so before you start your car, mash the accel pedal a bit!!

i'm still thinking that with my system a spring is still required... unless the travel in the lever is about the same in the accel cable... nothing set in stone just yet... we will see once i get a better idea of how the vanes actuate and respond.

/threadjack :roll: :lol:

jimfoo · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2007, 07:56:13 am »

Quote from: "jtanguay"

i'm still thinking that with my system a spring is still required... unless the travel in the lever is about the same in the accel cable... nothing set in stone just yet... we will see once i get a better idea of how the vanes actuate and respond.

/threadjack :roll: :lol:

You will need a spring, otherwise the actuator will be fighting your foot on the gas pedal.

stewardc · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2007, 10:46:25 am »

Quote from: "libbybapa"

Quote from: "stewardc"
I'm not quite sure what you mean here. What I meant is I don't need variable (read: complex) anything, just a plain old everyday turbo. Simple.

What I mean is that the added complexity of a highly effective and relatively simple vane control system is absolutely nothing compared to the complexity of the turbocharger to begin with, or adding an intercooler, or swapping in a ball bearing turbo and the rewards with regard to performance are far more significant. If you want simplicity, then ditch the turbo altogether, heck, ditch the car and start walking...

Andrew

That time of the month is it ?? :roll: