Author Topic: noisy all of a sudden (Read 12375 times)

zooky · « **Reply #15 on:** March 18, 2007, 03:57:33 pm »

ok, played around today. Thing has -zero- power. Revs OK but when I put it in 'drive' and hold the brake (not even all that hard) I can floor it and it doesnt even try to go, the RPM's will not go above about 1500RPM.
I checked timing. I am not using the VW transmission, I made alignment marks on all 3 pullys. On the crank alternator pulley and plastic cover I made some "rough" marks, they should line up fine with the marks I made undernieth on the timing belt pulley but I have to gain more access to get to my offical marks. From the looks of things, the IP and cam marks still match and it looks like the crank is off a tooth or two. I wont know until I gain more access.
Could the crank be off a tooth or two? The belt covers 80% of the pulley so it seems unlikely it could jump. It would also seem odd that the cam and IP would both jump a tooth. Either way, I would expect it would run rough(er). I'll know more when I get more access in a day or two, any thoughts in the mean time?

saurkraut · « **Reply #16 on:** March 18, 2007, 07:31:44 pm »

If you can't find TDC on the crank, your way out in the long grass. TDC is found on a VW flywheel, lined up with the pointer in the timing hole on a VW transmission bellhousing. Hopefully, you didn't smooch a few valves with your wide open throttle with no engine load experiment.

You might have to pull the motor and put a VW trans on it so you can correctly time the motor using a dial indicator in the pump, the cam lock tool in the end of the camshaft, and the crank zeroed out on the pointer on the vw bell housing.

if the pump timeing is off a few degrees, the engine will run poorly. If the cam and the crank are just a very little off, you'll smack the valves with the pistons.

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #17 on:** March 18, 2007, 09:53:13 pm »

Timing diesels is done to a thousandths of an inch at exactly TDC... even a little bit off and you get hard starts, low power, smoke, or all of the above.

There's an official tool you can use to measure the flywheel with the engine out, or there are a couple ways with the engine in... generally stuffing something down #1 injector hole, touching it with #1 piston going one way, then going the other... TDC is right in the middle. There's too much crank rotation at TDC to simply measure when the piston is at its highest.

Or... hillbilly-tune the sucker... a search here and at www.vwdieselparts.com should return lots of suggestions.

zooky · « **Reply #18 on:** March 19, 2007, 02:06:28 am »

when the engine was out I figured out TDC and made marks on the crank. It purred like a kitten when I first started it, at one point everything was set right. I am thinking that if I did wack a piston the thing would run real bad. It runs smooth but is noisy and has no power under load. The turbo wound spool up before, not anymore that I can hear. If the crank did jump one tooth what would my symptoms be?

burn_your_money · « **Reply #19 on:** March 19, 2007, 02:16:54 am »

Quote from: "Vincent Waldon"

Timing diesels is done to a thousandths of an inch at exactly TDC... even a little bit off and you get hard starts, low power, smoke, or all of the above.

I disagree. With my NA rabbit the cam was off almost a whole tooth and that car had all kinds of power, started like a dream. It did smoke a lot though until I turned the fueling down.

saurkraut · « **Reply #20 on:** March 19, 2007, 08:20:41 am »

I've never set up a VW diesel to run smooth at idle and have no power, so its hard to say what exactly is wrong. I usually try to get every thing spot on with all the appropriate timing tools and that seems to work OK.

apearently you can run the cam out of wack a little and not smack the valves. Personally, it too dicey for my likeing.

The TDC mark is on the OD of the flywheel, so at that diameter, a little movement is very noticable. If your trying to find TDC with a scratch mark on the timing belt crank pully, that diameter is a whole bunch smaller and it may be very difficult to achieve accuracy. The cam timing and pump timing are all referenced off the crank being at TDC, so that is your first goal.

I don't know if it is possible to snake something down the injector hole, make it through the small port in the prechamber cover, and then contact the top of the piston. The diameter of the "tool" to do this would probably have to be very small. And i would be concerned about bending it and the prechamber cover while trying to bring the piston up to contact it.

I understand you have a non-vw transmission installed on the engine. Perhaps you can back the trans up enough to sneak the top portion of a cut up VW bell housing in there to verify TDC. I think "hillfolk" cut a junk VW trany so he had the top two bolt holes and the TDC hole from a vw bell housing.

Some where on the interenet there is a procedure to time the motor by ear. Apearently, OK results are achievable through this method. You essentially loosen the pump mounting bolts, start the engine, and then manually move the pump untill the engine sounds the best. I've never tried it, so maybe someone here could elaborate.

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #21 on:** March 19, 2007, 08:45:13 am »

Quote from: burn_your_money

Quote from: Vincent Waldon
Timing diesels is done to a thousandths of an inch at exactly TDC... even a little bit off and you get hard starts, low power, smoke, or all of the above.

I disagree. With my NA rabbit the cam was off almost a whole tooth and that car had all kinds of power, started like a dream. It did smoke a lot though until I turned the fueling down.

So you had the "smoke" part of my laundry list ?!!! :roll:

Vince

zooky · « **Reply #22 on:** March 19, 2007, 10:47:01 am »

all my timing marks on everything are dead on, looks like I am screwed.
I guess the head is next although I think it runs too smooth to be a tweaked valve. :?

saurkraut · « **Reply #23 on:** March 19, 2007, 11:16:07 am »

Take off your valve cover and see if all the cam followers look good and are intact with their valve adjustment shims still in place. Somtimes, when you wack a valve, the shim will pop out too.

Don't base "smooth running" on every thing is OK. Many years ago, i had an NA 1.6 that had a valve seat failure. It still ran "smooth". The cylinder would cut in and out, but it only manifested its self in an RPM change. It still ran "smooth".

zooky · « **Reply #24 on:** March 19, 2007, 12:47:36 pm »

ok, here are my valve lash results:

limits : .006 - .010
I1 - .007
I2 - .007
I3 - .004
I4 - .005

limits: .014 - .018
E1 - .013
E2 - .015
E3 - .016
E4 - .014

3 out of 8 are a tad too tight. I wouldnt think enough to cause this problem. The results also lean towards no bent valves as a bent valve would not close all the way leaving a bigger gap. I still need to get my hands on a gage to check the cylinder pressure. I may also have access to a borescope to take a peek inside.
The pump was just rebuilt by Giles, is there anything in the pump that could have got crunched? From the research I did it has the symptoms if bad injectors or IP timing, the injectors are overhauled GTD's

zooky · « **Reply #25 on:** March 30, 2007, 03:54:18 pm »

here are the compression test results, pretty good considering the rings are not broken in yet:

#1 - 440psi
#2 - 440psi
#3 - 420psi
#4 - 440psi

Also, I discovered the #3 heat shield was upside down (oops) and there is minor carbon build up on that injector.
This pretty much rules out head and head gasket issues.
Any suggestions?

zooky · « **Reply #26 on:** April 01, 2007, 05:56:35 am »

Anyone?

jtanguay · « **Reply #27 on:** April 01, 2007, 12:45:21 pm »

that injector may be fouled up now because of the carbon...

Powjetta · « **Reply #28 on:** April 01, 2007, 06:10:02 pm »

I would try a different set of injectors or verify the injectors again with the pop and pattern test.

zooky · « **Reply #29 on:** October 21, 2009, 08:07:29 am »

problem was #3 injector was seized OPEN