Electrical Gremlins, 1982 Rabbit

[BlackTieTD]

(neither is mine)


i'm having electrical issues with my 1982 rabbit TD.

here's the run-down...

no signals, no headlights, no gauge lights, what seems like no glow plugs (orange dash light doesn't come on, car doesn't start as if it has working glows, but i do hear a CLICK when i turn the key to on from the fusebox area....).

i just replaced the ignition switch that fried and stuck on, frying the starter. i replaced the starter too. so i get the car to run no problems if i use a block heater on it... ign. switch gives good power to the starter, and to the stop solenoid...

but i'm not really sure why all those other accessories are not working.

i need to do some testing tonight. we just hit a warm patch of weather, around 11pm last night it rolled in, thankfully.

but while i'm stuck at work ponding this, can anyone shed some light as to what some commonalities may be between all of the non-working electrics? is there a good place i should start looking?

i plan to start just after the ignition switch and try to trace a 12v signal all the way to whatever accessory isn't working.

the two items stopping me from wanting to take the car to work are the glows and signals... so those are priority.

thanks for any help. ask any questions, i'll be checking throughout the day.

[burn_your_money]

It sounds like a ground issue. That click might actually be a bad thing. It could be power trying to find an alternate route since the ground is broken and it is activating a relay it isn't suppose to. Check behind the fusebox on the firewall. There are a cluster of ground wires all secured up there.
A bad headlight and hazard switch will give you the problems you are describing.
You have a Bentley now right? If you do it's pretty easy to check the switches to see if they are working. Use the wire diagrams and an ohm meter.
Do the hazards work?

[BlackTieTD]

thanks for the feedback tyler. no hazards either.

i'm going off of the photographs of the wiring diagrams you sent me. hard to make out but possible if determined.

i have an ohm meter and i will try to test the switches tonight with my limited electrical knowledge.

it is possible that a leaky windshield seal has corroded those grounds behind/above the fusebox... i know the ones you mean. had them off a year or two ago. they looked fine visually when i checked briefly over the weekend but perhaps the body metal has corroded underneith the connector where it is not visible. i will take them off and clean it all up. i hope its as simple as grounds.. that's something i've dealt with numerous times (what VW driver hasn't?)

[Doug]

I had an 84 Rabbit once for some years but as you say the leaking windshield eventually played havoc with the electrical panel. What I found was that the relays had taken in water and corroded internally. You need to find a source for relays. I went to the local wrecker and filled a bag with them. Then carefully swapped them out to get the rig working again. The car is not worth buying new ones but you will find that they are all numbered and are interchangeable over a number of years of production into the later Golfs and Jettas. Good Luck!

[burn_your_money]

Lanny give me a call tonight if you need any help with the testing. I'll follow along in my Bentley. I'll IM you my number. I think you need to do it in car though so you can match the terminals on the switch to the wire colors.

Try removing the GP relay and seeing if you are hearing a click. Maybe have a helper turn the key and use a volt meter on the GP wire at the 4th GP to see if they are getting power.

If I left my houser right now I'd be there at 5, couple hours to troubleshoot and 4 hours home... if I didn't work at 5am tomorrow :roll:

Does your clock work?

Everything you need to know about VW wiring
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1956464

You could have a bad load reduction relay. That would kill power to everything non essential to starting the car and keeping it running. Easy test, look for power at any of the switches when the car is in the cranking position (remove the exciter wire from the starter for testing) No power while in the start position is good but once the key moves to run you should get power. Use a chassis ground such as the shifter tunnel.

[BlackTieTD]

hi doug, thanks for the tips. oh the relays i've gathered from junkyard cars!  :lol: i have a stash going as you say. i've popped open a couple relays from the '82 to find that they are clean inside... glow plug relay in particular is like new inside.

i was just down at the canadian tire, on foot of course, buying a couple bulbs and sealed beam headlight (ahaha) and noticed they have generic flasher relays there for $3 or $4. if i can't sort the signals tonight i'm going to try the generic relays and just bypass the car's native electrical system as much as i can.

as for the glow plugs... i may just wire up a manual switch, as much as i don't want to butcher into the electrics. going to do everything so it can be undone easily enough. make myself some notes...

thanks again guys. if there are any more ideas please let me know. going to get back to this in 4 hours when i am set free.

[BlackTieTD]

tyler: you continue to provide me with great advice. thank you.

haha man you're crazy - i appreciate the thought.

the clock crapped out last year... until then it was the only reliable electrical device in the car!

not sure if its relevant but everytime i turn the high beams on or off, the clock advances 1 second. thats the only time it ever moves. been like that a year or so.  :lol:

[burn_your_money]

Always happy to help. I pretty much rewired my whole rabbit so I know how frustrating this is

A crapped out clock makes this possibly trickier. You cluster might be shot which will give you these symptoms except I think the headlights would still work

The cluster needs to be connected in order for the turn signals hazards to work

[burn_your_money]

By passing the GP relay is a big task in a rabbit if done incorrectly. It powers the stop solenoid as well as activates the starter.
The easiest way to get the glows to work on a switch but without disrupting the rest of the circuit is to carefully remove the 2 big thick red wires from the back of the relay harness. A thin screw driver will get them out connectors and all. Disconnect the battery first. Touch those two wires together and the GPs are on. All you need to due is use some spade connectors and lengthen both wires so they are in a handy place on the dash where the switch will be. If you've removed the 2 wires you can hook up GP relay as normal and everything else should function properly. Make sure to use a heavy duty switch and insulate it well. There is 50 amps (a bit less) going through there. Easy to start a fire if you use too thin of wire. Almost happened to me a few times :oops: If you don't have the 50 amp fuse (fusable link) in the engine compartment then consider running a 50 amp fuse for safety's sake.

[BlackTieTD]

a bad cluster doesn't seem too far off. it had crossed my mind but i wasn't positive on how critical a link it is. the blurry diagrams alude to its importance...

i did have one blown headlight that i was aware of, perhaps the other blew as well. i bought one replacement i will install tonight, will test to see if they are seeing power when switch is 'on'.

[BlackTieTD]

we keep posting at the same time. you just passed my post count with this wealth of knowledge you are sharing.

Everything you need to know about VW wiring
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1956464

last week i summarized and printed off that thread and others you participated in so i'd have some ammo for this job..excellent thread

[burn_your_money]

I had to make a delivery so that should fix the posting at the same time problem.

When I cut my finger off I had all kinds of time to sit around on the tex and think about fixing my rabbit.

You should post your compilation in the FAQ

[BlackTieTD]

came in for dinner.

gauge cluster has working speedo of course. everything else seems dead. however, the fuel gauge and coolant temp gauges definitely moved about 1mm to the right after i drove the car about 5 minutes. they almost came into the ticked-off area.. but barely registered. the temps were low though, and so is the fuel. high beam light does come on. glow plug light does not.

glow plugs are getting 12v, then drop to 0v after the normal startup time. car starts right up... but the weather became considerably warmer here. the -15Cish temps i was starting it in before today couldn't have helped (although it started much colder than that with no block heater or anything last winter....). it seemed like all 4 glows were not coming on. i still think 1 or 2 of them are toast...but they are definitely getting 12v.

headlights ended up being one blown headlight and the other side was a bad connector. both work now.

turn signals.. i got the green light on the dash to light up briefly, one time that i put the signal on. the other times nothing, and no signs of life from the rear signals (i don't have front signals hooked up atm).

in the back.. one taillight bulb will light up, and 12v on gauge, and the second connector without a bulb in it reads 12v, but then plug a bulb in, both go dead, and both connectors read 0v.

so moving on to the fusebox to find out why that happened.. i dumped out about 1/8 a cup of water from the lower right area of the fusebox i think it was relays mainly. if i remember correctly that is the area of the turn signal relay??

..and i assume that something critical to the taillights and other areas of operation?

going to go out after dinner and dry it all out with heat gun, use some contact cleaner and light sandpaper to clean up.

food ready.

[burn_your_money]

sounds like you got it fixed.

[wolfsburgnut]

I have had that exact same problem with every VW that I have ever owned, with the turn signals not working.  It seems as though if there is one (!) ground connection that is not good between the 4 signals, none of the signal lights will work.  It seems as though the way they set up the circuit, it is very sensitive to even one bad ground.  Hope this helps, but it looks like you already got it figured out.  

Peter