Hi guys,
I just registered and became a member. I have been driving diesels for about 20 years. Mostly VW’s, except for a 5 year stint with Uncle Sam driving a lovely sand colored V8 diesel that he so graciously loaned to me. 1st VW was a 1980 Rabbit deluxe. I bought it off my Father as a teenager. That poor car deserved better! I beat the bejesus out of that car. 10 people in it, loads of firewood, off road, max redline on MULTIPLE occasions, -did you know that a 1980 rabbit can hit 55 in second gear? : ) It finally died from a runaway engine one cold night with 450,000 miles on it. A giant cloud of white smoke and a huge puddle of oil under my oil pan that now looked like swiss cheese. That poor car did its duty and then some. My second diesel is the car I’m still driving. A 1985 Golf GL, 1.6 N.A., mechanical head, 12mm bolts, 5-spd. I bought it from an old man in Savannah GA back in 1999. Odometer said 42,000 miles. Opened the hood and saw what appeared to be a brand new head. Asked the seller about it and was told that the old head had been ruined by a broken timing belt….. The original timing belt!! 14 years old in the high southern heat! He brought it to the dealer and had them install a NEW head. The dealer did the work, but did not have any diesel certified techs on staff. Old fella gets the car back, timing is way off. Hard starting and blowing smoke like crazy. When it fired up, I covered his neighbor’s house, and half the street in smoke. No rust, perfect interior, original bill of sale from the dealer! I paid $1,500.00 for it. I have driven this car for the last 8 years; over this time I have ended up replacing most of the mechanical components as they failed. Bearings, shocks struts, brake lines, cv shafts, ball joints, tie rod ends, exhaust, drums, disc’s, hoses, belts, shift linkage, door locks, clutch, etc. Shortly after I bought it the ODO stopped working, Pain in the ass little gear in the VDO Speedo head. I never fixed it and just kind of estimated mileage. I must have close to 200,000 miles on it now. Last year I blew the head gasket, it wasn’t a overheat issue, it just failed. While the head was off, I brought it to a friend of mine who works in an automotive machine shop. He did a complete rebuild for me. Way less smoke and more power after that. A nice northern New England winter came along and the car became hard to start. Never had this problem before, what gives? I am familiar with operation in the cold, but it just cranked and cranked with no start. PAIN in the ass! Unhappy wife who could not get the car started after working late in the dead of winter. Things look bad for ole blue. Before giving up, I found an old crusty retired vw mechanic who lived in east bum shoot and had a fondness for old diesels. He determined that my IP was not holding pressure and air was somehow leaking in. He installed a very small electric fuel pump between the fuel filter and the IP. When I cycle the glow plugs it also powers on the pump. Problem solved, or at least not so bad. All these little patches have held the car on the road for a while, but my ride is getting tired. I have blow by, oil leaks from multiple locations, IP is still seeping although it runs like a champ on the highway. It will do 75-80 all day long. Getting the occasional 5th gear pop out on the highway. Once every 2-3 months. Tranny has had redline in it for the last couple of years, fluid isn’t low. I have read that this is a problem in this early transmission. I get a little grind going into reverse every once in a while, and I can feel a small grind on speed shifts into second. No grind going into second if I shift normally.
Sooooo……. I am at the point where I am going to need to rub some money on the car to keep it going, and to keep my wife from calling it various names that are not the most flattering. I have been reading through the site for a few months getting the feel of things, and to clue myself in on what mods are doable. I would like to bounce some ideas out to you and get some feed back. I would like to plan this out well before I commit. I will only have enough coin, not to mention goodwill from my wife : ) to get this done once, so I will be hitting you all up for your collective Intel on best practices for the build up so I can hopefully avoid the “ Oh ***! This part is toast now!” scenario.
This will be a daily driver so I need reliability. Compound turbo’s with propane injection and 35 psi of boost with flames shooting out of its ass will probable probably not be a option. Darn!
I am looking for speed and reliability.
My understanding of building speed from what I’ve read here in the GTD forum is:
1. More fuel
2. More air flow in
3. More exhaust flow out
4. More fuel, more fuel, and most importantly, more fuel
5. Perhaps also, various cooling upgrades and an EGT monitor to prevent you from leaving a molten lump of engine block cooking on the highway. :lol:
I would like to move up to a TD.
Question being, 1.6 or 1.9? Kind of chicken or the egg situation. 1.6 is cheaper and has more top end. 1.9 is more expensive but has more on the bottom end. Perhaps the hybrid 1.6 block with the 1.9 head. Low CR and Northern winters may be a problem. I have seen talk here about 1.9 pistons in the 1.6 block. Can the block still be stable with that much of an overbore? I have also read about 1.7 pistons in the 1.6 blocks. Discussion went back and forth as to if the pistons had cut outs for the oil squirters. IIRC, some did and some did not. Benefits discussed included a small bump in compression ratio to help alleviate the drop brought on by the bigger pre-chambers in the 1.9 head. Has any one tried this setup yet? Would there be any concerns about piston height or stroke? I am all for increasing CC’s if possible.
Injection Pump:
The heart of the project. I am planning on sending the unit straight to the Great and Powerful OZ. I’ve read enough posts with high praise for the Giles Super Pump to make this an easy pick.
I do have some questions though. Which pump? 1.9 on a 1.6 or vice versa? Pump setup? I have read about different sizes? 9mm, 10mm, 12mm etc. Not exactly sure what that all entails. What else is there to consider? I know there was a change from manual to electric timing advance-cold start. Are there any other significant differences between pumps between 85 on up till TDI’s came on line? Are any of these better suited for hi perf mods over others? What sort of information will I need to have in advance in order for Giles to tune the pump properly?
Bottom end:
I guess this depends on what sort of set up is chosen i.e.. straight 1.6TD, 1.9TD, hybrid etc..
Basic set-up questions: Crank, Rods, Pistons, Rings, Bearings, Head bolts/Studs etc.
1. Rings-Differences between OEM and total seal? Preference one way or the other?
2. Pistons-I guess Myke_w is the man for pistons. Anyone try the extra slot cut in the top for extra power? Any other tid bits of info for this area?
3. Rods: Am I correct in my understanding that stocks Rods are strong enough unless you start pushing over 120hp?
4. Crank: Any suggestions or proven mods? Knife-edge? Will it affect smoothness of idle? Is the amount of rotating mass removed enough to help spool time? Can any of these motors handle a stroker type mod? Does one exist?
5. Bolts/ Studs: I have seen ARP, Raceware recommended many times. Head studs, Con-Rod bolts, Main set. Anything else? Benefits of these over stock?
6. Oil pump: Is it correct that the pump that came in late 80’s td’s is already upgraded to the larger size? Is there a need to go for higher pressure/ volume?
What else am I missing? Rubber oil pan gasket. , windage tray, block heater, oil-pre-heater, crank scraper-any benefit?
Head:
1. Cam: I read the review of the pass performance cam from the TDI link. Has anything been done like this for the IDI cam, testing or dyno type numbers? How aggressive is it. Does it shift power to the high or low end? Torque changes?
2. HG: General consensus appears to be the metal 1.9 HG
3. Valves: Can you go bigger to increase flow? Any hints in this area?
4. Exhaust ports: I understand they should be opened up as much as possible. I was reading the link about the pre-chambers and ceramic coatings. Someone did a nice cut job on the head and opened it up for all to see. Can it be determined from the cutaway model just how far the porting can go?
5. Ceramic coating: Is it worth it? Has anyone actually done their exhaust valve, port, and pre-chamber? Will this stuff flake off and cause havoc?
6. O-Ring/ Fire ring: Had to call a friend to get an explanation on this one. My basic understanding is it provides extra strength to the HG to prevent failures. Do the block and the head both need to be machined for this mod? My friend thought it was not reliable for the long term though. Thoughts?
7. Lifters: I have heard mechanical was better than hydraulic for high rpm application. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to be changing shims every 20k, and want to go hydraulic. Any concerns or build tips in this area?
8. VC gasket: I plan on going with the rubber one to help prevent leaks.
9. Splash baffle: I understand there is a baffle you can put under the VC that helps reduce oil splash and help prevent oil leaks. Any drawbacks?
What have I missed?
Starter: It’s going. Needs a rebuild. Posts suggest sticking with the old style.
Alternator: Stock or more power? Is it worth messing around with pulley size?
Water pump: Same question.
Fuel filter: I was planning on going to a Racor dual set up. 10 micron and a 2-micron. Flow restriction gauge. See through water collectors. Heater inserts as well, somewhere between 150 watts and 300 watts in each. Is it possible to install anything like this in the trunk, or are there concerns about introducing this into the passenger compartment? Racor makes a gauge that fits on the dashboard with a change filter/ drain water indicator and alarm. Kind of geeky but I dig it.
Turbo: What is max EFFECTIVE boost the KKK-24 can push out? I have read you can go pretty high, but when you push too hard it will start sending your EGT’s into the danger zone. So what is the upper end before you start getting diminishing returns?
I understand there are a host of turbo mods, but those appear to be covered in other posts.
Exhaust: 2.5” down pipe, plus all the way back appears to be the common answer and set-up for best flow.
Exhaust manifold: I guess porting and polishing to match up to the head. Stock or swap? Anything else?
Intake manifold: Big subject. My basic understanding is you want it as open and as even as possible. Do you recommend a stock part or swap in something with better flow?
Intercooler: Looked at prices for new-ouch. The junkyard looks to be calling my name. Any preference between air to air or air to liquid? Could an electric fan be added to help draw air through to help cool? What makes should I be looking in for a really effective unit. I.e. Sabb, Audi, or something larger?
Cold air intake: I have seen one and a two into one set up. Stock location is front right fender well. Does running them to the front end work better? I would be concerned with snow build-up or heavy rains. Are these legitimate concerns?
Injectors / nozzles: Lots and lots of information. Some say no change, just difference between old and new. More fuel at higher pressure is better, but what is the upper end? With all the nozzles I see for sale out there, is there a difference in spray pattern? Are certain spray patterns better suited for 1.9’s or 1.6’s? Many I see don’t actually say what size the nozzle is. I would expect that this would be one of the pieces of information Giles would need to get you the correct pump set up.
Cooling: Stock radiator or bigger? Any change to the thermostat, winter vs. summer?
Fan upgrade? What about the oil cooler. It is my understanding that oil temps get hot as hell during heavy right foot usage. Is there a better cooler than stock. What about location changes for better cooling?
Well, I think that’s about enough for now, wow, I didn’t realize it had gotten this long. I have a line on two complete 1.6td’s right now from the early 90’s; both are Canadian so I don’t have to worry about the itsy bitsy ECO Diesel. May also be able to get 1.9td head, intake and exhaust manifold at the same time, so the Franken motor is a possibility. I look forward to your insight.
Just got off the phone with the person I may be getting the two 1.6td's from. I thought they would come with kkk's but he said he just checked the tag on the turbo and its a Garret Part# 465 384-5. He also gave me a VW part# off it as well, 068 145 703F.
Anyone know from these #'s which model it may be? One engine is from a 92 jetta, The part number is off the 92. The other is from a late 80's jetta I believe.
Thanks, jim
Sniff...sniff
Man, do I stink or something? :cry:
I have spent hours and hours in the search section. The 1.7 piston into the 1.6 block does not seem to be a new idea. Everything seems like it would fit. Pin, rod, crank. Half the post's say the walls of the block would be too thin, others say it's no issue. However, I have not found a single post where some one did the mod. I'm sure there must be someone here who can shine some light on the subject. :?: :?:
Jim
i think the 1.7 pistons do not have the recess machined in them for the oil squirters... thats pretty much it i believe.
OK, I'm kind of new to using the quote feature. that 1600 to 1700 post was supposed to be in here. :oops:
jim
As soon as i get going with a job i plan to do this. I too have searched for an exact answer that they will fit. I know that scopefrfd has sold some to a few on here that were cut out for the oil jets. And if they were not, why not find a 1.9td piston and use a piece of cardboard to copy the pattern the modify the 1.7 pistons have them coated and balanced. Then call it good? I have no personal expierence soi can not say anything 100% sure. But what you have said sounds like you are going in the correct direction. At least you have 2 TD engines coming your way. Thats more than i have to work with. Good luck.
Well it has begun.
I just received my new Kolbenschmidt pistons, 50mm oversize.
Will be placing the call to Total seal about the ring modification. Anyone else done this or in the process? I was thinking about just the top ring, any comments? I will also pick up some of there Quick Seat product.
Also am holding in my hands a new set of nozzles for my 1.9td injector bodies. I decided to go with the DN0 SD 265 ( 0 434 250 128 ). These are the newest updates for the Mercedes 300TD. I will be having these done up this week.
Crank was out and to the machine shop. It did not need to be turned. Guys said it looked great and just polished. Will be going with a set of standard size bearings. If anyone knows the part number for the Glyco main bearings with the seperate thrust washers I could use it.
Have my new glow plugs sitting on my shelf.
Purchased a new oil pump, the one with the 36mm gears that was reccomended.
I will be picking up a new Bosch 65 amp Alternator this week.
The same time I am getting the Alt. I will pick up a new waterpump. OEM.
The block will be getting bored out some time next week at the machine shop. Wish I had a torque plate.
Sent my connecting rods to ARP so I could have them check for the right bolts. Posted that info here. I will order the head studs and the conrod bolts today. I am going to hold off on the main studs until I figure out whats going on with the Girdle scene. I may have Dave or one of the guys from the index fab one up for me.
The IP is pulled, drained, bagged and boxed with Giles name on it. I just need to bite the bullet and send it up.
I just lost out on a 600HP precision intercooler on ebay. SHEEEIIIT! That would have been sweet. I will keep looking.
I need to get hold of Dave and talk turkey about getting some work done and some parts. Gonna go with the 2.5" DP, new intake, some form of his Port N' Polish and perhaps if I can swing it the equal length runner exhaust.
I will be lucky if my CC company dosent start calling thinking someone has stolen my card
I've done the total seal rings on a volvo td and blow-by is non-existent. I had the 2nd ring modified. My understanding is the 2nd ring is ok for low reving, under 6k rpm, engines and the top gapless ring is for higher reving engines. This recommendation comes from the aircooled vw guys. I haven't done a compression test on the engine, because 1. the engine only has 400 miles on it so far and 2. the engine is such a pain to work on. But the engine is very impressive..to show how little blow-by it has, I haven't hooked up the breather hose to the valve cover it just vents to the air and there is virtually no oil film on the valve cover. The engine/compression should only get better as the rings break-in. As opposed to the volvo D24 that I just dissassembled...if you disconnected the breather hose the oil would shoot/splatter all over the engine. Come to find out it has 4 cracked 2nd rings...which I assume is probably caused by the previous owner getting frustrated starting it as it had 4 dead glowplugs and shooting starting fluid into the engine.
In my opinion the best you can do with a 1.6td is put the 1.7D pistons in it and a 1.9td head. The 1.9td head will lower the compression but the 1.7 pistons will recover approx 1 full point back in compression. I believe the engine will be around 22-1 compression ratio. A slightly lower compression ratio will actually help if you're running higher boost. The 1.7 pistons I bought have the oil squitter reliefs in the pistons and they're also coated. 1.6 and 1.7 blocks are exactly the same except for the larger bore size of the 1.7. As far as ARP headbolts and such..I've haven't had any HG failures using factory head bolts with a properly prepared block and head. I've run 20+ psi on these engines and so far so good. I would imagine if you're running 30psi then the ARP's will give you piece of mind. Diesel rod bolts are rarely if ever changed...you can tell by the lack of aftermarket rod bolts out there. A low reving diesel doesn't put as much stress as a gasser engine. If the engine shows signs of being previously rebuilt then replace the rod bolts..they can only be re-used one time. Using .50mm over pistons you may want to consider going 1-step higher in HG thickness as the extra bore volume will increase compression...great if you're going N/A but not so great with a turbo.
I'm in MA if you have any other questions feel free to PM
I did a bunch of research on the 1.7 deal. Tracked down pistons and everything. Bruce here on the forum brought home a sonic tester and checked wall thickness on some blocks he had. I think they were NA . Don't know if that makes a difference, but the readings he came up with suggested that the walls would be very very thin going out to 1.7 spec.
I may hit you up on that offer for some help after I get all my parts in hand. I will be bringing the car down to MA to a body shop that my wifes uncle owns. No sense building a nice engine if the body starts rusting away. I would love to strip it and spray the hell out of it with that rino liner stuff, but I will settle for whatever the family discount gets me :wink:
Come back! the snow misses you
Just ordered my Head studs and Con Rod bolts from summit. Must be a run on those rod bolts, they are now back ordered.
Dropped my 1.9TD injector bodies off an hour or so ago. Next week they will have fresh new 300TD nozzles in them
Moving forward.........
His name was darryl remick. I guess he used to be a head mech. at a small shop in rye nh. He quit or somthing and moved to northern nh onto the side of a mountain. A bit ecentric, but knows his stuff.
I have family that planted roots in Falmouth on the family farm about 200 years ago. Still in the family. It would be a wicked pissah if they sold it :lol:
subsonic Where did you get your nozzles from? If you don't mind me asking how much were they and how much are they charging to install and pop test them? I found some for $55 a piece its the whole injector.
I am paying 20.00 per injector for the cleaning, install and pop tests. A bit high, but the shop is right on the way to work so I don't have to go out of the way. I purchased them with the goodfriend discount from the parts store he works at. $27.93 EA. So even with the good discount I am looking at $191.72 or 47.93 per injector.
Where did you find yours? I saw a site a while ago that had the Merc injectors at a good price but they were backordered with a unknown time.
I put these in the 1.9TD bodies over the 1.6TD. I had read here that they offered a bit more on the top end. I dont know why, or how, but I had em so I figured I would give it a try. Anyone know why?
By the way, even though these were brand new Bosch injector nozzles, the still said made in India on them :x
I have two more sets of 1.6TD injectors and a set of 1.6NA injectors so I may be able to experiment some later on down the road.
The guy has a nice shop. He has about 18 years of experience doing pumps and such. I will let you know how the quality of his work is. He said he could do a rebuild on a Bosch VE for about 300-400, as long as it was not siezed up.