Author Topic: No start (Read 7675 times)

Wills · « **on:** February 18, 2007, 01:08:06 pm »

Help! Ive been running about in my Caddy for 6 months now with a dodgy pump, and having to start it on a hill all the time is a pain, so today I was offered a pump that was so say a recon but the car was no good and therefore scrapped, So I locked the cam, and Ip, pulled off the Ip pulleyand removed the old pump, fitted the new one and belt then the problems started. It refuses to start, I flattened 2 good Batts, and towed it but all it would do was run In gear whilst being towed, as soon as it stopped it would die, it wouldn't even Rev, loads of smoke and a terrible sound too. So i stripped off the belt and turned the pump 180, not any better I spent the day trying the belt at different places but it is having none of, someone tell me what I am doing wrong?

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2007, 01:46:38 pm »

First guess is that your new pump won't prime... disconnect the return line and apply suction (I use a brake bleeder) until you're sure you've filled the pump with fuel. No fuel ?? Filter ?? O ring leaking ? Hose blocked ?

Second guess, once you've confirmed the pump is full of fuel, is that your new pump is not working... once you're sure it's full of fuel open a few of the injection lines at the injector and crank the engine... fuel should leak out. If not... you have pump problems.

Third guess, if you have pump problems, is the fuel shutoff solenoid... the wire from the ignition switch to the pump. It should "click" as you turn the key on and off. If not... swap it out.... maybe you kept the pieces from your old pump ??

Wills · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2007, 02:36:10 pm »

Thanx, Ill try all that tomorrow, am I reading the forum right though, by rotating the pump I am changing the timing, this is with the belt on too? Which is the return line by the way?

jtanguay · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2007, 03:07:31 pm »

well lets get down to basics here... did you time the pump with the dial indicator??? its super precise and i doubt you could time it by ear unless you are really skilled... (i know someone who can do this :shock:... takes him about 45 mins or so though)

he did say the car got running... so im sure the shut off solenoid is working... you did make sure to spin the engine around to make sure that valves arent hitting pistons etc right? confirmed TDC???

i still have to think that its timing related issue. either that or the pump could be a little gummed up... some diesel purge would clean that out.

bubbles are easy to check for.. once you get the engine timed properly get someone to start it and keep an eye on the fuel lines for bubbles. if it starts and runs keep an eye for bubbles... give it some revs and check for more bubbles. if you see lots of bubbles, suspect the fuel filter and possibly the screen mesh back at the fuel tank.

burn_your_money · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2007, 03:27:24 pm »

if you don't have a dial indicator just put the pump about in the middle of the bracket, maybe a bit towards the engine. It should at least start up there.
I'm also thinking that either there is no prime, air leaks or the pump is gummed up. Drain the fuel filter (or hook up a separate feed for the pump) and run pure ATF. It should help free up the pump even though you are just cranking. Make sure to give your starter a rest or you will be replacing that as well

I just reread your post and since you are getting loads of smoke, you are getting fuel, so the pump is primed.

Wills · « **Reply #5 on:** February 19, 2007, 01:29:28 pm »

So today I had to get it running as I need it back desperately, I got the flywheel to TDc and locked the cam, locked the pump and pulled off the belt to start afresh. Checked everything and refitted the belt, wound over twice to make sure no knocking, I then pulled off the fuel return and fitted a short hose with a pot full of Diesel on the end I wound over for a few minutes and watched as a load of bubbles appeared through the pipe until the pipe was filled with fuel only, re fitted the pipe and pulled off no 1 Injector and proceeded to check all these to make sure there was fuel getting there. I then pulled the pump all the way forward and marked it then all the way back and marked it again, I set the pump to about halfway and cranked, just spluttering, all the way forward still spluttering, all the way back(towards the engine) and she coughed into life! I adjusted this to get the idle as quiet as possible and to cleanly rev throughout the full range. BUT, the pump is incredibly close to the engine, so am I possibly a tooth out on the pump, retarded? And the other problem is it is incredibly noisey, and has no go off boost, the pump has been fully recon, is there any adjustments I need to try?

burn_your_money · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2007, 04:39:54 pm »

It sounds like the pump is off a tooth defintly

jtanguay · « **Reply #7 on:** February 19, 2007, 04:47:34 pm »

you might as well invest in a good dial indicator... it will really help you out big time!

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19, 2007, 05:13:26 pm »

Noisy and no power off boost... again, almost certainly timing (assuming fuel is good and compression is fine).

Dial gauge here you come !!! Or, get your neighbourhood vw guy to set it this one time ?

With a gauge you'll probably know if you're one tooth off 'cause you may not be able to set it to spec.. as long as you locked the pump sprocket properly when you put on the belt you're probably fine... one tooth off is pretty obvious assuming your locking tool is tight. :roll:

burn_your_money · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19, 2007, 05:37:29 pm »

Being off a tooth on the pump isn't that obvious. I've made the mistake a few times. The pump locking tool i was using (deep socket) had a lot pf play in it. The crank pulley will also rotate and throw you off pretty easily. If you were closer I'd time it for you

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #10 on:** February 19, 2007, 08:25:31 pm »

yup, if your locking tool has slop then you can get out of wack... edited my post about to be clear that if the tool is tight the belt is pretty obvious if it's out.

And good point about the engine drifting away from TDC all by itself.. one more thing to keep an eye on as you set up the belt !!

Wills · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2007, 03:30:44 am »

Any idea which way out it will be, Im asuming that since the pump is up close to the engine it would be too far advanced? Am I ok to drive it too as I have driven 10 miles to work in it today! And as a final thought, is there any other way of checking the Tdc, I had to change the flywhweel When I put the motor in and am not 100% sure that I put it on the same as the one I took off, assuming I can put it on wrongly that is?

burn_your_money · « **Reply #12 on:** February 20, 2007, 05:35:51 am »

The flywheel is on correctly. If it wasn't you'd be smacking your valves and then it wouldn't run.
If the pump pulley stays in position the belt needs to move one tooth away from the cam pulley if I am thinking about this correctly.

I think you will be fine to drive it. Timing is retarded, probably around 0.80. You'll just have horrible power and mileage, I don't think it will cause the head to overheat but someone should verify that

Wills · « **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2007, 06:07:29 am »

So am I thinking about this correctly that I can lock the cam and pump pulley then pull off the belt, pull the pump 1 tooth forward and refit the belt? I'll need to readjust the timing on the pump after too wont I? Thanx for all your help by the way. If I am however totally wrong about how Im about to do this can someone point me in a better direction please This is the first time I have done any work on a derv engine.

burn_your_money · « **Reply #14 on:** February 20, 2007, 09:36:45 am »

It's easiest to remove the belt from the cam and the IP pump. There is no need to remove any of the accessory pulleys though. You'll want to remove the cam pulley as well as the tensioner. Remember to tighten the tensioner clockwise, not counter.

Turn to TDC
remove upper timing cover
remove VC
lock cam/pump
loosen cam pulley
Check TDC
loosen tensioner
remove belt
using the belt turn the crank to get it right at TDC. You shouldn't need to move it far
Put belt around pump. You can use clamps to hold the belt in place on the pulley.
Make sure to keep tension on both sides of the belt or it will fall off the crank and you need to start over.
Get the belt onto the tensioner and cam pulley.
Tighten and check