ok guys (big power guys) TDI M

[SMOKEYDUB]

Ok for the past 2 years i have been monkeying with a 1.6 idi. It is an excellent setup but i cant keep the head from lifting. I am currently running 27 pounds boost with 2.5 inch intercooler tubing, A ported and polishe head and manifolds and a built bottom end. The turbo i am using is a k24 o and also i have arp hardware everywere to try and keep the thing together. I have come to the conclusion that I am just trying to get this thing to go to far. I ran a 15.9 quarter mile in my a2 jetta and its just not fast enough. so thats at its limits so i want to move to a tdi m. I am just wondering if you guys are experiencing any of these problems. I have a factory TD rabbit that i want to stick the tdi m into with a vnt 20 or vnt 25. I have on my 1.6 a 12mm pump made and tested and tuned by giles. i wanna go with fairly big power i want that rabbit to run deep into the 13s on slicks. so can you give me a few answers? Also my 12mm pump can i use it on the tdi m? and what would i have to do to the pump to modify it? thanks alot fellas...


Jeff

[SMOKEYDUB]

Need a bit of help deciding. Help answer some of my questions

please

and

thank you  

Jeff

[malone]

Ok for the past 2 years i have been monkeying with a 1.6 idi. It is an excellent setup but i cant keep the head from lifting.

... I am just wondering if you guys are experiencing any of these problems.

What symptoms are you experiencing with the head lift? andy2 and I had coolant overpressure from the cylinder compression leaking into the coolant passages. The realistic solution may be to o-ring the head to hold the compression in. As simple as that may be, I don't know if that's the end-all solution as we haven't gone that far just yet. It might even seal the TD head+block together for at least 200whp, who knows.

FWIW I'm more interested in IDI performance because there's still some unexplored territory left (to seek more power), but it requires patience and some risks. TDIs are easy because the ALH stock internals can handle ~350 wheel torque out of the box, so people can just "bolt on" and go. Each have their pros and cons.

Most VNT-20 is fine for 190-200whp uncorrected depending on the rest of your setup. If that's enough whp to get your Rabbit into 13's... It would be cool to keep the factory Rabbit TD fresh & original. They seem rare so they might be worth a pretty penny on ebay. You could consider selling it (unless it needs repairs) and picking up a gasser or regular diesel Rabbit shell for the TDI swap.

[SMOKEYDUB]

I am experiencing the same problems as you and andy. I have talked to andy and have ventured over to his house to check out his setup. I just thinking up the old sayin theres no replacement for displacement and clearly a 1.6 is not made for anything but good fuel mileage. I am impressed with the performance i got out of it but if a tdi can handle a much higher power with out doin anything why not build one up and go fast easy. I have already have done a bunch of risky things that nobody around me has done and its just to much for the little engine. I am just simply wondering if the tdi m will still have the same issues as my idi with pressurizing the cooling system.....hmmmmm

[malone]

I am experiencing the same problems as you and andy. I have talked to andy and have ventured over to his house to check out his setup. I just thinking up the old sayin theres no replacement for displacement and clearly a 1.6 is not made for anything but good fuel mileage. I am impressed with the performance i got out of it but if a tdi can handle a much higher power with out doin anything why not build one up and go fast easy. I have already have done a bunch of risky things that nobody around me has done and its just to much for the little engine. I am just simply wondering if the tdi m will still have the same issues as my idi with pressurizing the cooling system.....hmmmmm

If it's a displacement issue, then I would imagine that acquiring a 1.9 AAZ long block won't be any more expensive than a MK4 ALH (depending on the junkyard). I understand though that you've had enough with experimenting and overcoming IDI hurdles. I believe that once the IDI o-rings are used, which is not rocket science, it's just a matter of how much power the reciprocating block internals can handle. The TDI rods can be adapted to a AAZ block without machining and the IDI may have superior high-RPM combustion performance for HP (they can start & idle fine without needing to retain the airflow-restricting swirl chambers that TDIs have to live with). Pre-chamber design/size/strength is another issue with IDIs though. I digress.. can't go wrong with tried-and-true TDI performance for peace of mind.

If you want 350-375wtq/200whp uncorrected, then a stock block ALH should be fine. Any more it might be a good idea to lower compression (at least that's what the VW Racing team does, but they're quite conservative). Have the pistons machined to accomplish that. The ALH will still run great at 17.5:1 to 18.0:1. Stock HG and head studs should be fine. A VNT-20 (try gt2256v) spools quickly and pulls really strong to redline if you want a fun daily driver. Add nitrous & propane for killer drag results.

[Benjamin]

i cant help you with the rabbit tdi...

i wonder why your jetta cant be faster than this.
my Fiat 1.9td is running 17s flat gtech on the quarter and i believe it can better with this setup (i had shift problems)

its with stock T2 turbo @18psi, its with a little stock IC install, 11mm with 0,96mm timing (stock 0,80), governer and lda mod. it was 940-960weight (without myself :wink: +85kg). its with much smoke, i cant tell you the egt's sindce i didnt intalled the meter.

maybe you are just running to much pressure, i love to see fast 1.6td's, you can say its only a 1.6    dont forget, its a DIESEL  
i had the chance to smoke a honda when i was driving with my dieselbeast, very impressive for such an old car!
i'm staying in the IDI zone with a big vnt turbo.

audi80 is running about +170hp with his 1.6 and 1.9head, i believe he dont got those problems, he runs a gt2052v @28psi

Greetz, Benjamin

[Audi80]

Are you using stock K24 :shock: I´d say it is way too small for big power. What kind of exhaust manifold pressures do you have?

I have old 1.6 head, which have been welded at least 3 times :roll:  It has cracked 2 times, from intake runner to prechamber. Temp has gone suddenly too high, thermostat has not opened. Have no idea what causes that... Now Im running AAZ metal gasket with ARP studs, no problems so far.
I´m going to build a new engine for Scirocco, but i´m holding with IDI Hoping to get 13´s with slicks

[Benjamin]

how to measure manifold pressure  :oops:
and what can you do with the results?

Greetz, Benjamin

[Audi80]

Just stick a boost gauge to exhaust manifold

Manifold pressure should not be much higher than boost. Below boost would be good.

[Benjamin]

dont you need special feelers for this one, rubber hoses wont take long. or can we just take the normal boost gauge with about 10"metal hose, after that use rubber hose?

Greetz, Benjamin

[Audi80]

just take the normal boost gauge with about 10"metal hose, after that use rubber hose?

Greetz, Benjamin

Thats right

[SMOKEYDUB]

its just time for a change i have mad up my mind im selling the idi stuff and building an ahu. any bad things about the ahu ? i think it would be eqasier to mount then the alh.

[malone]

RabbitGTDguy uses a AHU or 1Z block and he installed ALH pistons. If you search his TDI build-up thread I think you may find his reasoning in there, or send him a PM.

The MK3 TDI pistons are supposedly not as strong as the ALHs. Seeing as you want a 13-sec Rabbit this may be worth looking into.

[RabbitJockey]

i did a 16.2 on 25 psi no intercooler and stock pump that i barely turned up in my a1 jetta.  i'm surprised you only did a 15.9.  blake did a 15.8 in his a1 jetta on 40psi water injection and his pumped turned up real high.  and then he put a 12mm pump head on it and he said it was a hell of a lot faster but he blew the headgasket out then haha.  no governor mod either although i doubt that makes that much of a difference.  anyways what i'm saying is i don't understand why your car only runs 15.9s


anyways with a rabbit you shouldn't have any trouble getting into the 13's.  especially with the setup your planning.  blake did a 14.07 with poop tires and  a slipping clutch, a t3 turbo and water injection.  at 40psi, his injector pump is basically that of a 4bt cam plate and all that goodness.  so as long as ur not afraid to run some boost, and you run the vnt you're talking about with an intercooler and all that good ness, you shouldn't have any trouble hitting 13s

[SMOKEYDUB]

lets just say there was spinning on the 15.9. dont forget im in an a2 jetta with full interior (3/4) tank of fuel to i did 85 mph at the end of the track. The reason for doing a tdi m in a rabbit is because my dad has a 1963 chev impala that does 14 sec flat 1/4 mile time @100 mph on street touring radials. So my goal is to beat him bad. Also i want to pull up to a 5.0 mustang with a loud rattling rabbit and ASS rape him (in a racing way) heheehe cant wait to see the look on peoples faces. I havnt really raced many people in my jetta but i havnt lost yet. anyways i really appreciate you guys giving me some answers and some guidance and i thank you very much. feel free to suggest anything else and happy dieseling....


Jeff