Deep freeze starting revisited.

[burn_your_money]

It's too bad propane freezes, you could carry a small camp stove in the trunk and fire it up under the pan for a few minutes before starting

[jtanguay]

no i dont have a link.. i found it from a search on ebay its a 1" sized heater that sucks up 1500 watts  :shock: very powerful

the manufacturer is zerostart... no idea where it would be bought from.  it is definitely for large trucks, and threads into 1" type oil drain plug.  (our motors would need some modifications of course)


i would love to see a product that would actually fire on diesel oil to pre-heat the engine... i would rather use 5 minutes worth of fuel on heating energy rather than mechanical/heating energy...  have it on a timer and be done with it!

[LeeG]

It's too bad propane freezes

 :shock:  How cold is it back east ? :shock:
propane freezes at like -200C or something.  If you have problems with propane lines freezing, probably you have moisture in them.  

i would love to see a product that would actually fire on diesel oil to pre-heat the engine...  

There is, Espar Hydronic 4 for one.  Only problem is that the price I was quoted is $1500C.

Building one would be possible.  The primitive version would have a long coil of tubing in a heavy walled can, can wrapped in insulation.  Connect tubing to a electric coolant pump and plumb into head/block.  Fill can with a couple inches of diesel and something for a wick (rag, roll of TP).  The whole works could sit where the battery normally goes.  Open hood, light the fire, turn on the pump, wait a few minutes.  Extinguish with a heavy lid.  Everyone would think you car was on fire with all the smoke!  
A fancier version would use a fan to create a forced draft so you could install it and run it with the hood shut.  Maybe use propane for fuel or you would need a pump to pressurize the diesel so you could spray it through a nozzle to get cleaner combustion.  But now you need safety devices incase it overheats, somehting to ingite it with....pretty soon your thinking $1500 is cheap.

[QuickTD]

Propane boils at -42ºC so a propane device should be good to at least 30 below, the output might drop a little but it will work. I've seen a propane powered block heater on a log skidder. It wasn't totally automatic, it had to be lit with a match. I don't recall the manufacturer but it would be the hot ticket (pun intended) for those who can't get near electricity. Using inverters and 12v batteries to make heat is silly, why not just use 12v heaters like glow plugs. Fit the car with duraterms in the normal location and run them for 3 minutes before starting. I expect the head would be warm to the touch after that. The glow plugs will take it just fine and you'll get all the heat without burning 20% of the energy up in the inverter.

[burn_your_money]

Propane boils at -42ºC so a propane device should be good to at least 30 below, the output might drop a little but it will work. .

I've always had troubles starting my propane torches if they are the slightest bit cold, so I assumed propane wouldn't work very well for cold starting :oops:

I also find that using an inverter would be highly inefficient

What you could do rather then installing them in your head to replace the OG glow plugs is you could have a chunk of 2" (or w/e dimension) pipe threaded to fit the glowplugs. The just plumb the pipe into the coolant system. I'm not sure if the GPs would need to be protected from direct contact with the coolant though.

[QuickTD]

The glow plug sheath is inconel, no problem with direct coolant contact. They are used directly in the coolant on manual tranny TDI's for auxiliary heat to improve heater output. Duraterm glow plugs will very likely draw their full cold current when immersed in coolant though (30+ amps or 360 watts each) so make sure your wiring and battery are up to the task. Four glow plugs will kill a standard car battery completely dead in less than 15 minutes at room temperature, you'll need way more battery than that at -20ºC. One, or better yet, two group 8D truck batteries would be adequate. You'll need a 120 amp charge for at least as long as you run the glow plugs to restore the batteries so if your commute is less than 1/2 hour you'll need to charge the batteries with something other than the alternator. Plugging in will probably still be required at one end of your trip...

[jtanguay]

i also heard that the GP's in the coolant don't last too long... not a big issue though as they aren't too expensive...  the TDI's equipped with that system have bigger alternators and bigger batteries too

[anarchyx34]

Well, it didn't start again this morning . Should've seen it coming. I'm going to do what I have to tonight to get it running, and then tomorrow I'm putting in Mobil1 0w40.

[anarchyx34]

Got it to run using a booster pack I borrowed from work. So cranking speed is definitely the issue here. I drove it to warm garage and I changed the oil to Castrol 5w40 synthetic. The bottle said it was made specifically for VW TDI's so I said close enough. You can see the difference easily. This stuff pours like water. I even experimented a bit. I poured some dino Rotella T into a cup, and it was pouring on top of itself, kinda like syrup on pancakes. Then I tried the same with the synth. It was like syrup that was in the microwave for 30 seconds. The synth was able to pour back into the container quickly. The rotella oozed out of the cup. I almost cant wait to wake up tomorrow and see if my car starts. Is that sad?

[burn_your_money]

Is that sad?

Sad that you love your diesel?  :? Did you forget what forum you are on?

[jtanguay]

Got it to run using a booster pack I borrowed from work. So cranking speed is definitely the issue here. I drove it to warm garage and I changed the oil to Castrol 5w40 synthetic. The bottle said it was made specifically for VW TDI's so I said close enough. You can see the difference easily. This stuff pours like water. I even experimented a bit. I poured some dino Rotella T into a cup, and it was pouring on top of itself, kinda like syrup on pancakes. Then I tried the same with the synth. It was like syrup that was in the microwave for 30 seconds. The synth was able to pour back into the container quickly. The rotella oozed out of the cup. I almost cant wait to wake up tomorrow and see if my car starts. Is that sad?

nope not sad at all.  i'm sure your car will start!  i had the same problem when it hit -30C couple years back... the car did make an attempt to turn over though... once or twice  :lol: damn syrup!!!

[FineFrank]

Hey jtanguay, do you have a link to that oil pan heater?

I doubt it's 300W, but Kat's makes two sizes and the work excellent. Moroso also makes a nice one, if a little spendy. Both are intended to be glued to the oilpan where they warm the oil nicely. Been using one for ten years now, never had a no start from cold weather.

It's too bad propane freezes, you could carry a small camp stove in the trunk and fire it up under the pan for a few minutes before starting

Several years ago I was at Jackson Lake, Wyoming and the guys with "snowplanes" were starting their engines. They used a weed burner and a short length of stovepipe with an elbow on the end. The put the weed burner in the end of the stovepipe and turned the elbow up towards the engine. It worked great. I take the same equipment with me when I'm winter camping.

[anarchyx34]

Wow what a difference. It was 9f this morning. The friggin thing cranked like it was 65f out. Started up quickly. It misfired randomly for about 5 seconds afterwards (probably should've let the glows run a little longer) but was fine otherwise. Yay for synthetic oil.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

[jtanguay]

Wow what a difference. It was 9f this morning. The friggin thing cranked like it was 65f out. Started up quickly. It misfired randomly for about 5 seconds afterwards (probably should've let the glows run a little longer) but was fine otherwise. Yay for synthetic oil.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

hurray!     dont worry about the random misfiring... mine does the same thing.   i'm thinking i have a few GP's that aren't glowing properly...

[nkb]

-23 without windchill thismorning everyglow plug bad and i still got mine started!! all i did was unhook the pipe from the turbo to the intake and stuffed a hair dryer in there and took right off