Author Topic: Deep freeze starting revisited. (Read 8662 times)

anarchyx34 · « **on:** February 03, 2007, 12:18:20 am »

Ok, so in a few days time, I'll be waking up to single digit temps again, they're saying 6-8f...ugh (that's -14c for you metric guys). Last time this happened you might remember, my 1.6td didnt start. I dont want to be caught having to drive a gasser to work again and having people laugh at my silly diesel. So far here's what I've done:

-Changed the oil, this time half 15w-40 and half 5w-30.
-half a bottle of white bottle "power service" anti gelling stuff (enough for 50 gallons lol).
-battery verified putting out 850cca.

The last step is what I'm wondering about. Im considering using Ether, or WD40, which I've heard is safer. I know with Ether they say not to use the glow plugs, which isnt a problem since my plugs are on a manual pushbutton. Will Ether really work on a stone cold 6f engine without glow plugs? What about WD40? Will it be effective?

Remember that I live in an apartment, so I cant plug it in overnight, light a fire under the car, etc... The absolute last case scenario for me is to leave the car in my parents garage (which stays relatively toasty) and have to take the train there in the morning to get my car. Not a good option because I'll probably turn into a solid block of ice walking halfway to the train station. Think it'll work?

jtanguay · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2007, 01:36:13 am »

ether will work... doesn't take much compression at all to get that stuff to ignite

just a pita to use ether... best done if you had two people.. one to turn the key and one to spray the ether. still doesn't matter much when the car doesnt turn over fast enough...

you don't want to overdose your car on the power service stuff... i think it was burn your money who overdosed and burnt an injector :shock: it only takes a very little amount to give you the proper anti gelling and cetane boosting.

one good idea is to install a 1 gauge cable going from your battery to your starter, and make sure you solder it on. also make sure there is a good ground going to the starter as well. other than that it pretty much boils down to having working GP's and having good cranking speed.

i think my pump is having some air leak issues... it seems to miss at startup which is probably the cold, but air leaks are usually more pronounced with cold weather. i still have yet to install the new fuel filter i bought :roll:

Dr. Diesel · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2007, 07:02:23 am »

i found 0W40 allowed the engine to crank over faster in -15C than it did in the summer with 15w40. Make absolutely sure all your glowplugs are working. having one plug inop can make or break a successful startup. Also, remove your battery cables from the car completely, and make sure all cables and connections look like new.
If you had a spare battery in your car (trunk) you could use an appropriate power inverter and a timer to power an on-board block heater for a couple hours before starting. Obviously, the highest capacity battery you can get your hands on, preferrably deep cycle, would be better. You'd also need a way to charge it while driving, but not have it discharge your starter battery while it's powering the block heater. A primitive system where you manually disconnect it from the starter battery (sharing the alternator while driving) when you park the car would be easy, or maybe use one of those big kill switches within reach of the driver seat on the main DC front-rear cable. On when driving, off when parked.

burn_your_money · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2007, 07:38:03 am »

I used 1/8 to 1/2 a bottle of power service with one fill up, my car never ran the same after. Very little power and hard to start. I changed the injectors and voila. You might want to think about draining that tank.... It was an old rabbit though, so maybe it cleared some crap from the pump and got lodged in my injectors.

Use synthetic oil, my car doesn't have the best compression, isn't timed properly, and it still starts in colder weather then you are experiencing.

Definitely run a cable from the battery to the starter, it makes a world of difference

anarchyx34 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2007, 09:29:26 am »

Well all of my battery cables are new, and in fact I went crazy with them and "doubled them up". I have 2 4 gauge cables going directly to the starter, a 2 gauge ground cable going from the starter to the battery, another going to the bellhousing to the body... lol I dont think the cables are a problem.

I'm leary of using synthetic oil in a motor with 240k miles. The motor burns about 1 qt every 1000 miles as it is and from my experience with synthetic on other cars, it will just make it worse.

All glow plugs are new and functioning BTW.

mst · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2007, 12:04:29 pm »

You can do what I did when I was working I Sweden in the winter :Take the battery with you in the house in the evening as to keep it warm and reinstall it in the morning just before you start, battery looses a lot of power when cold; OK mine was a gasser (Thunderbird 1958)so it got
half a bottle of ether in the 4-barrel Holley, it always started
:lol:

anarchyx34 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2007, 12:14:11 pm »

1958 thunderbird... in Sweden?? You must've been pretty well known there.

jtanguay · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2007, 01:01:19 pm »

i have a nice big deep cycle battery i got from my brother $25... all i need now is an isolator for the alternator to charge both batteries without the drain issue.

the biggest issue would be using the block heater for an hour and going for a 20 minute drive... probably wouldn't charge the battery enough

did you install brand new terminals on your battery? my bro also got me a nice big kick ass battery with 800CCA... i think it was a die hard... very very good battery! it started my old diesel over in -20C weather... it ran like hell at that temp but cleared up after a few mins... oh and there was quite a bit of white smoke... (i also had shell rotella sb 0w40 in it) that engine had around 300'000km with new rings and i think machined crankshaft and new bearings.

i've got synthetic in my '92 with 390'000km no problems there. the level goes down every once in a while, but only when i drive it really hard. by really hard i mean... peg 20 psi boost bootin it down the road hard...

i would definitely go synthetic if i were you. just get the cheapest brand that has the diesel compression symbol like CF. it'll get you through the winter easily.

i wonder what those in Ottawa do? my sister lives there and she says that overnight it can drop to -45C or is that just windchill??? :shock: she has it plugged in at home, but not at work...

saurkraut · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2007, 01:44:24 pm »

Too thick oil will be you major issue. There are 10W30 diesel rated dino oils that will give you a fighting chance in cold conditions.

Moble delvac and Rotella both are available in 10W30 weight, non-syntic "C" rated oil. Walmart, Kmart, and every truck stop has them.

Dump that 15W40/5W30 mess you have in there now and put in the right 10W30 oil.

Oh, and don't use either. Use the right amount and you'll put cracks in you prechamber covers. Use too much and you'll wash all the oil off you cylender walls and your compression will drop dramatically.

burn_your_money · « **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2007, 04:32:43 pm »

I have 440xxx kms and I switched to synthetic. My oil consumption/leakage did not change. I'm at about 1L/1000kms but once it's below half it loses it a lot slower.

LeeG · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2007, 01:40:24 am »

I didnt find Ether helped my 1.6TD start. I gave it a shot, then went straight to cranking, not waiting for glowplugs. It bucked and shook cranking over as the ether ignited way to early, didnt even come close to starting until I had cranked it for a while. Total cranking to start was the same as without ether and the ether was clearly not doing nice things.

400,000 ish Km at the time. My glows all worked and it ran well, but not sure what the compression was. Changing a couple injectors made a huge difference in starting ease.

A heat gun under the exhaust manifold will warm it up pretty quick, if you can run an extension cord out to it while you are there. Used that trick up north a few times. I would also resort to a propane torch on the manifolds, but make sure your engine isnt too oily.

What about just pouring 5 gallons of hot water slowly over the engine? Nothing much on the diesel would be bothered by that. Certainly mine never complained about being pressure washed.

Gramps used to drian the coolant (plain water??) from his Model T and bring it inside overnight, then heat it on the stove before pouring it back in. VW are a PITA at times to get the air out of system so that might not be a good idea.

DieselSteed · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2007, 09:25:53 am »

I agree against using the ether. My low compression NA wabbit made strange attempts at starting while using the stuff. It didn’t sound good, the sound of bad things happening.
I have wanted to use an inverter and deep cycle batteries tied to a digital timer like Dr. Diesel talked about (and LeeG, I meant no disrespect about not using a mercury switch in the relay controlled block heater thread!).
Cranking speed plays a large roll in starting and a good oil will help. I run the Rottella synthetic in mine. Libbybapa talked about cleaning the internals of the starter (good brushes and bushings , good connections, etc). That should help you.

tSoG-84bit · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2007, 01:20:35 pm »

I had to start my rabbit up this weekend using a second person and a can of starting fluid ("ok, for diesel and gasoline engines" read the label). I have the push button glow plug setup, I just told my starter to turn it over, and as she did I gave a few quick squirts of starter juice. It fired up to clattering speed as if it were summer, not about 5*F. It idled poorly til I closed the hood and realized the cold start knob was pushed in. this 'bit still has a few problems though... I shouldnt be overheating in the worst blizzard of the season, especially after nearly the whole coolant system has been replaced to get my heater working. I wanted heat but not THAT much :-( After a bit of ranting I think the only suggestion for you is get a two battery setup, one for prestart, one for starting. Most boats have that setup so you can use all the electronic toys without running your boat out of gas.

jtanguay · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2007, 02:29:24 pm »

i've got a nice 3000 watt inverter that i'm going to hookup in the summer. and use a zerostart oil pan heater (need to weld it on ... it will make a world of difference for cold starts!)

mix that with the nice big marine battery i have and it should start at -30

DieselSteed · « **Reply #14 on:** February 04, 2007, 02:55:38 pm »

Hey jtanguay, do you have a link to that oil pan heater?

Author Topic: Deep freeze starting revisited. (Read 8662 times)

anarchyx34

anarchyx34

anarchyx34