Pump problem after gov mod...

[AntonUK]

Hey everyone, some of you might have read about my governor mod I did (in how to remove the governor topic) and as I suspected it’s turned into a nightmare!

Come morning, I tried to start the car (Jake, the first time I took pump apart it hardly lost any diesel) and nothing, not even the slightest sign of life. Eventually my battery died so I took day off from college to take the pump apart again.

This time I removed one of the shims from the main spring since the throttle was way to harsh and unsmooth for me so more to stock than before. I did find a small spring knocking about that I must have missed (part of the idle idle spring assembly) so again I put everything back together carefully made sure I’m not forcing anything to fit.

Jake I must admit I didn’t put the max fuel screw exactly the way it should I roughly put it in as I could see were the fresh thread was were it sat in the body. Maybe this could be causing trouble??....

This time I knew it had to be primed so I got my friend to tow me around the block to get the pump to prime itself. I was in second at about 2k rpm and again...nothing...not a puff...not a sign of any life. This was for about 500m :cry:

I felt so sick I was just prepared to scrap it! I can’t understand why it doesn’t even give any sign of life or willingness to make the slightest combustion!

I have checked the fuel cutoff and the solenoid is making the click when I put the connector to it..

I’m absolutely out of ideas..Dieselpower or Jake do you have any ideas what I could try?? Or anyone else please?

Thanks for any help!

[dieselpower]

hey,
i had that excact same problem that you are having. i tried everything but it wouldn't start. i just got fed up with it cuz i thoguht it was the govenor mod so i took it apart and when i did that i seen that the throttle lickange wasn't properly set up, so i put it all back together and it started like a dream. also i had my dad pull me around and then we went back to my house and he was like, y didnt't u let the clutch out?. i was like it was out the whole time. it didnt put a towin load on my dads truck because it had just enough fuel goin in that it was able to propell itself, it never seemd to me that it was trying to start at all tho.

how did you actually remove the top cover? did u just stick the shaft threw the hole or did you play around with the linkage till it spun and it came loose?

cuz another thing i can think of is did u put the throttle shaft back in properly if u just slid out the shaft?(is it so when you turn it counterclockwise it pulls on the linkage, or is it backward so it pushes on it?) and is the lever set up to the right position? or is it set too much to a low throttle setting?

good luck with it and hope this helps.


Mark

[fspGTD]

When the pump is sufficiently low on fuel, it is not self-priming (IE: no amount of turning it over, or even like you did AntonUK: have the car towed around in gear, will get it to prime itself.)  What you've got to do is manually get fuel into it's main cavity somehow - and I won't go into detail on all those ideas as there are a lot of them discussed on various thread here (try search on "prime" or "priming" maybe?) but none are really that easy to do on a turbo-diesel pump.  For example, some people with electric fuel pumps just turn those on.  I've actually used one of those outboard motor fuel "squeeze bulbs" plumbed into the fuel supply as well... or there is always the method of using a turkey baster to squeeze fuel into the fuel return hole and/or fuel stop solenoid hole.  On an NA pump, it's easy as pie - no LDA device in the way, so just remove the fuel outlet banjo and squeeze fuel int the hole.  On a turbo the LDA is in the way and the fuel return hole is sideways so maybe try the fuel stop solenoid hole.  Note: you can't prime it either by just getting fuel into the inlet hole... as it is separated from the main cavity (you need to get fuel into the main cavity.)

Regarding not getting the max load screw in the exact same amount... it certainly could cause a difference!  This is one sensitive screw... and you should measure carefully it's orientation before removing it and also count the threads exactly as you remove it so you can duplicate it's original position exactly when re-installing it.  Otherwise, well for one reason you won't know if a power gain is due to something you did inside the governor, or just this screw's position got changed.  Another reason is that, well I think it may be hard starting or bad at idling if it were not turned in enough.  And if it's turned in too far, your motor can literally overrev itself and melt holes in the piston after you get it started, before you can even get a chance to shut itself off (just ask Deo!   :lol: )  If you have lost the position, the safest thing to do would be to take the pump to a diesel specialst and have them calibrate the fuel quantity on a test stand.  That way when you get it started, no chance of it over-revving itself and self destructing.  A less preferable option is be prepared to turn it off right away after starting it if it doesn't seem right!  And then turn out the screw before starting it again, and repeat.

If you got the position of the full load screw really close though, I'll bet you are just having an issue with your fuel pump not being primed.  When you start it, press down on the throttle in case it's not turned in far enough... if idle rpms aren't high enough you know you'll need to adjust the screw in.  If you set it so it idles at the same RPM that it used to, the full load screw will be in the same position that it was before messing with the governor.  That is because in theory, neither the governor main spring nor the part-load spring come into play during starting or idling.  HTH, good luck...

[dieselpower]

a way i find that is easy to prime the pump is to remove the fuel return line and hook a vacuum pump up to it(im not sure the name of it but it extracts it into a jar) and i use a clear hose and watch till no more bubble come out. u can also undo all the injector lines and crank it over till fuel comes out.

good luck

Mark

[fspGTD]

a way i find that is easy to prime the pump is to remove the fuel return line and hook a vacuum pump up to it(im not sure the name of it but it extracts it into a jar) and i use a clear hose and watch till no more bubble come out.

You mean one of those one-man brake bleeders that operate by using suction?  It would also pull all the fuel you get into the pump through the filter with minimal chance of dirt getting in... I like it!  The trick though would be getting it plumbed in air-tight and correctly.

u can also undo all the injector lines and crank it over till fuel comes out.

This will not work reliably if the pump is too low on fuel to be self-priming, as it sounds like is the case for AntonUK.  (He already spun it in gear at 2000RPM when it was towed for half a km!)

[AntonUK]

Hey thanks for the replies Mark and Jake.

Mark, I took the pump apart by fiddling with the governor spring assembly as I didn’t realise the shaft came out the way it does (would have helped a lot) As far as I can see, I put the arm and spring assembly the correct way. Now its assembled, when I move the control arm I can see the LDA pin sliding out so I’m presuming everything inside is working the right way (maybe not though).

Jake, I didn’t put the screw in as much as I thought it should go in as I was planning just to put my foot down on the accelerator and see if it starts while being towed. I can worry about the idle and max fuel later on so I stuck to the safe side.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that fuel is pissing out of the control arm. Jake does this mean that the cavity is fully primed? As the fuel is forced out at the highest point? This is obviously another problem but I want to get the car started first before I look into changing the seal. I presume this seal is the o-ring on the arm shaft which sits inside the copper bushing in the pumps body?

Mark, How did you realise that your throttle linkage wasnt setup properly when this happened to you? As I can't really see inside the pump once I hook everything up ready to put the lid back on..

Thanks again for your time guys!

[dieselpower]

i just took it apart to undo my govenor change and when i pulled up on the cover, it just slipped off insted of being conected to the linkage. i dont know how it came undone but then i just put it back together and it worked. it was all luck that i found out what was wrong with it tho.

try taking it apart again by slipping the throttle shaft through the copper bushing. just mark down how it goes back together. then you can make sure the linkage is set up right and locked together(which is hard the other way)

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/418501/3
the bottom pics are how it's supposed to be hooked up.(sorry about the quality, my camera isn't good with closeups)

other then that are you sure you conected the throttle lever back one in the right position? try taking it off then spinning the shaft counterclockwise till it catches on the spring then line it up with the lines like this...the outside 6 lines are the ones on the lever and the one in the middle is the one on the shaft.(i'll draw a better pic then post it on my site) dont mind the periods, they are just there to space it out properly

\.../
- \ -
/...\


hope you figure this thing out


Mark

-edit-
my pic is up, lol, not the best pic in the world but you should get the idea. anyway that how 3 pumps that i have looked at line up, it might be different on yours tho.

[AntonUK]

Hey everyone

Just to update things, Mark I haven’t took the pump apart for the third time yet (basically I’m on the edge of setting it on fire!) but I have talked to a local diesel specialist.

He told me I could have easily knackered it by even the tiniest dirt spectacle and the way he sounded it looked like the pump was dead, but he told me to try disconnect the injector lines and see if there is any fuel coming out. Thankfully there is fuel spraying out from the head, a nice thin line of it quite consistent. So I got back on the phone to him and he said it’s probably not setup right but he wants in the region of $150 to set it up on the bench! He basically said there probably isn’t enough fuel pressure coming out to give any combustion or smoke.

I really don’t know what to do, I don’t want to pay that much just to set it up its probably cheaper to source one at a scrap yard somewhere for a whole pump (he wants another $50 for the throttle shaft bushing and o ring)

Update:

Last thing I was left to try is put everything back to standard. And what a suprise..It’s looking like its working.
I didn’t put the LDA pin back I just got towed again and after some quick judder it fired up give out a puff of smoke and drove..I clutched it and it reved up like crazy (loudest turbo spool I ever heard) there was so much fuel pouring in but I think this is because the LDA system thought there was max boost as the ride pin must have come all the way out since there LDA pin wasn’t in.

Anyway tomorrow I have to get the new o ring and bushing for the throttle shaft so Il have to take it apart again hopefully it will go ok tomorrow.

Anyway I’m happy it fired away but I’m still very confused why a couple of shims in the governor spring stopped the whole thing from working?!

Thanks for all your help Jake and Mark! :lol:

[fspGTD]

Glad to hear you got 'er running again, Anton!