Need More Power

[fspGTD]

Lanny, did you look at my downpipe web page?
It is pretty self-explanatory, at least, showing what I did for a downpipe.
It would not be easy to duplicate, however.  That german-aftermarket hartmann motorsports A2 TD downpipe had to be imported from a german friend.
http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd/downpipe.htm

What I like about it is that it uses the OEM spring-clamp ball joint.  It would not be all that hard to duplicate, except for those brackets on the swivel-joint.  They are pretty fancy and look like they were machined on a mill.  Unless you're a machinist, those swivel joint parts would be hard to duplicate.  But, you could incorporate some other kind of swivel joint instead perhaps in a custom-fab downpipe, like others on this board have done (Take a look at JoeGTD's downpipe for example.)

Sounds like the 1.9lTD downpipe may not be maxxed out in size, but it still would be a heck of an upgrade over the stock 1.6lTD cast-iron part (which necks down to 1.5"ID), and might be pretty easily adaptable to an A1 or A2 1.6lTD - no custom machining required, swivel joint is already there, etc.

Hope this helps,

[fspGTD]

Oh by the way, the sizing specs on the hartmann downpipe are:

The downpipe maintains an inside diameter of approx 2 5/16" (some standard metric tubing size probably) all the way to the end, where it enlarges to about 2.5".

I recall this size (2 5/16") seemed almost precisely what the ID of the turbine exducer bore was following the "step" (which is built into the turbo supposedly to break up air vortex patterns, which overall makes it flow easier.  It's one of those weird turbo things.)

[Turbo DS]

WRT the charge pipe causing lag question, if you do the calculations for mass flow from a 2" to 3" diameter charge pipe, you will find that it only takes a few more milliseconds longer to fill the larger pipes.

I am using 3 inch charge pipes starting right after the 1st 90 degree from the turbo which is a 2.25" for about 5 inches.  The rest is 3" all the way to the FMIC, and after to the intake manifold which has an 80mm inlet.  There was no increase in lag at all, and top end power greatly inproved over the 2" charge pipes.

[VWRacer]

Sounds like a terrific setup, Turbo_DS. Can you post some pics of your setup, or a link to a website?

[BlackTieTD]

Lanny, did you look at my downpipe web page?

hi jake, i just looked over that webpage now.

looks great. wow, thats exactly what i am looking for right now.

the ball joint isnt much of a concern, i will redo the entire exhaust system and i planned on eliminating the C-clamps, i am not a fan.

although i do have the desire, i don't have the equipment or experience to fabricate something like that jake.. but i hope to someday.

if a company made a downpipe like yours, it is one of the expensive items that i would just break down and buy instead of trying to find an economical/DIY solution like most things...

i have a friend with a welder and the gear to do mostly bodywork and engine work, i'll talk to him about taking a stab at making a downpipe with me, but i think its beyond the capabilities of the equipment available.

the ~1.5" exhaust is really beginning to bug me:

- restrictive, less top end power
- higher EGTs
- all i have is the downpipe and no muffler/resonator because i'm waiting on a downpipe solution before i get the rest of the system put together... so the car is LOUD... might be the reason i got a 65km/h in a 50 ticket the other day.. and i think my girlfriend might finally be getting tired of it, although she grinned ear to ear at first (as did i...)

ahhh... the downpipe conundrum  :?

[fspGTD]

You might want to see if you can find a hartmann A2 GTD downpipe.  They might be able to sell you one, I wouldn't know if they still make it though or if they speak english, but I was able to find their web site: http://www.hartmann-motorsport.de/

Maybe if you can find a friend who speaks german, you could have them call Hartmann germany and translate for you?

Their A2 downpipe is a simple cut, twist, and weld operation to adapt it to work in an A1.  The stock VW A2 manifold to downpipe support bracket also bolts on.  It is really high quality piece, with the tubing made of stainless.  (with the bracketry and flanges are thick mild steel.) It is not cheap.  The OEM VW swivel joint works wonderfully - allows a large, free range of motion, easy to disconnect, seals well, should be reliable and last a long time too.  The lower part you can get off any VW lower downpipe and weld it to your own - and it is made of 300 series austenitic stainless too!  The only problem I see is that the upper part is hard to re-create.

Note that there is a hartmann motorsports in the US as well, I don't know if it's affiliated with the german-based hartmman motorsports their logos look like a different style and their products seem different.

Or... just go with the 1.9lTD downpipe.  More readily available, should be able to adapt it to fit an A1 carrying over it's flex section.  Would still be a nice upgrade over a stock cast iron downpipe piece.

[BlackTieTD]

thanks for the advice jake. i will follow the hartman lead...

the 1.9TD downpipe is the one i have. long story short, it was SUPPOSED to be the right flange, when i drove an hour to pick it up it was the wrong flange, but the guy convinced me i could drill two holes and make it work... it looked like it would but upon further inspection the actual path for the exhaust gases to travel through would be staggered... so not very ideal.

if i was to work with that pipe i'd not only have to cut it after the flex joint and weld on a J bend, but i would now also have to fabricate or cut off and use an existing square garrett-style flange... seems a waste to do all that work and still only end up with 2.125" inner diameter.

i'm rambling.. thanks again jake, i'll have to sort out what i'm going to do, or see if my friends in the UK or netherlands can score me a pipe...

[1985JettaTD]

DVST8R:
went looking for the best pleace to get Exhaust done at today and found out that there is no pleaces in Vancouver that have mandrel bent. is this something that is really needed or could i get away with crip style with out hurting anything really bad? about the muffler u r useing, it is really loud? i HATE ones that r really loud!!!!!!!! i have seen the no baffel ones and they r sweet!
thanks sooooooooooo much u have been a huge help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dr. Diesel]

shop for gauges on ebay. it may take a little time and luck, but i picked up a new autometer EGT gauge and 35 psi boost gauge for great deals!

[cheng]

black tie:
think about building a spool piece for the exhaust.
it would be a short tube with a different flange at both ends.
it wouldnt have to be more than 1 or 2 inches long and would be easier than cutting and fabbing on a new flange. also you would be able to use an off the shelf part when your down pipe rots off.

the Techtonics Tuning factory is right here in my neck of the woods and I'm going to try and have them build for me or supply me the parts to build a 2.5" down pipe from the turbo to the toilet bowl piece for my A1.

they already have all the other parts on the shelf for the rest of the exhaust system available in stainless.

I need to do a lot of other work but I am going to start there with my performance mods.
 
ken

[DieselsRcool]

Bag the toilet bowl and go with a 2.5" flex joint to join up with their 2.25" system. That is unless you can do a 2.5" toilet bowl.

Let me know what you find, I need a down pipe too.

Larry

[DVST8R]

Black Tie TD: my downpipe is very similar to joegtd's if you search on the hostboard site I'm sure you can find pics of it. It consists of 1 J bend walker 2.25" mandrel bent exhaust tube, and a 1/2" piece of mild steel with holes drilled at proper points and a hole saw cut 2.25" hole, the j- bend was cut about in half then a short straight section was added and then finally the other half of the j bend, creating an elongated S sorta shape, that was connected to a 2.5" flex pipe (the bigest I could find) then it is conected to a 3" exhaust system with a dynomax bullet race muffler and the out the back of the car. It sounds like an open downpipe which I had been runing for the previous 6 months until I finally got around to finishing it, but it resonates, and vibrates alot less then the open down pipe, and is somewhat quiter. Anyway back to the downpipe it was made for less the $30.00 CDN with just basic hand tools hack saw, tape mesure, square, drill and hole saw bit for drill. I did weld it together albeit with a crappy old stick machine, but you could take it to a muffler shop, or any fab shop and the most they should charge you is like $30.00 as it is like 3 welds that might take 15min time. The reason I went with 2.25" is that it was the closest to the turbo outlet as I could easily find. If I do it again I will use 304/309 (either or) stainless with a 2.5" downpipe and port match the flange to the turbo with a diegrinder, and then run a 2.5" stainless flex pipe, and clamped to a 3" aluminum mandrel bent exhaust. But that is a little costly for most, and takes a fair bit more fab skill too.

1985jettaTD - There isn't any place in Vancouver that does mandrel bent exhuast (well at least with dies as big as 2.5" +) The only way you can get that is build it yourself out of mandrel bent J's and U's from your local parts store (go see lordco). Or you can go with a crush style, if you go that route its hardly anymore to step up to a 3" system vs a 2.5" and to gain the extra flow espetially with the crush bends.

[Turbo DS]

VWRacer:

I will see if i can take some photos soon of the setup, thanks for the compliments.

[AntonUK]

has anyone run the exhaust system with no back muffler?? iv heard some tdi guys saying they run mufflerectomy or somthing like that with no back mufflers and say its not much louder yet better spool up??

cheers guys.

[Dr. Diesel]

I'm running a techtonics 2.5" "cat back" with two front resonators and no rear muffler. It's pretty good. At some rpm's on the highway, it's absolutely silent. Get on the accelerator, and it really roars!  Using a 3rd gen downpipe. (easy bolt-on on an A2!)