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May 17, 2004, 08:05:41 pm

1985JettaTD

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« on: May 17, 2004, 08:05:41 pm »

Hey all! I have been looking for a TD Bored for a long time and just came accros this one and it is great!

Anyway I have a
1985 Jetta with the 1.6L Turbo diesel. The lack of power in it is really bugging me. I wanted to know what the best mod or mods would be to get the most power for your money. I dont really know much about the car and dont know what anything does so if someone could help me along it would be great. I would like to get about 150hp out of the car and have about $3000cad. to spend. What is the nest way to do that????
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Reply #1May 19, 2004, 12:18:23 pm

Turbo DS

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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2004, 12:18:23 pm »
First, you have the proper approach; do it right the first time and get good parts.  You will be far happier in the long run.  You have to pay to play.

Get a proper FMIC (front mount intercooler) like a PWR, greddy etc.  As far as the size of it, fit just about the largest you can, as the added thermal mass will allow the engine to make power longer, and the air, more isothermal.  Cost will be about 4-500USD.  You will also need to fab up some charge pipes.  This is not hard at all, and will generally cost you under 100 USD including couplers and hose clamps.  

Next, get a larger exhaust (2.5-3+ ") with resonators only.  ~500USD.  

You will then want a boost controller to take advantage of the better mass flow capability of the engine.  With the turbo you have, I believe you can run about 20psi, and perhaps 25psi as long as your head gasket is in good order.  Cost will be anywhere from 5-50 bux for mechanical or a few hundred for electronic.

At the same time, you will want to tweak your injection pump.  Do a search on how to perform this action... if we have the information on this website yet.

There is more as well that you can do, and I am sure the other members will have info to give.

If you want more power, step up to a larger turbo.  You have myriad options concerning what turbos to use.

Reply #2May 19, 2004, 01:38:42 pm

BlackTieTD

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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2004, 01:38:42 pm »
some good advice there. where can you find a downpipe larger than about 2.125"? thats the diameter of a 1.9TD downpipe and even at that it will need some welding to make it work...

i've never seen anything larger than that other than one-off fab jobs.

 :?:

Reply #3May 19, 2004, 07:53:14 pm

DVST8R

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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2004, 07:53:14 pm »
For the DownPipe Custom, just go to the local parts store and ask for mandrel U or J bends in what ever size you want, then cut them and weld them, if you can weld then you can still cut them a hack saw takes no time at all, and then take it to a place to be welded shouldn't be anymore then $20 to have it done as it is a quick easy weld. If they are going to charge you more go some where else.
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Reply #4May 24, 2004, 03:30:42 pm

DVST8R

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« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2004, 03:30:42 pm »
Well since we don't have one on this board yet I supose I will answer this one so people have something to search for. That and I just wrote out the novel for another board so ignore the refrences to the 4x4's and other engines
 :roll:

What this didn't cover as I had already covered it during this persons build up are the upfront costs. **These things must be in place b4 any thing you start to mod.

1. ***Exhaust from turbo back at lest 2.25" mandrel bent 2.5" is ideal, 3" is doable but takes alot more fabing.

2. Gauges. egt gauge, boost gauge, are the minimum, if you are going to do the govener mod then add a tach to that.

3. Intercooler, a poor intercooler is worse then none at all so choose wisely ( I am not the authority on intercoolers so someone else will have to jump in here.

4.**optional but highly recomended**1.9L metal HG, and arp, or raceware or, jan b's cheap head bolts or studs.

****WRITE DOWN EVERY ADJUSTMENT YOU MAKE, SO THAT IT IS EASY TO RETURN TO STOCK SETTINGS FOR EMISSIONS OR WHATEVER****

Ok lets start with the max fuel screw as even with out extra boost these motors can still definatly use extra fuel, so for this mod just break off the coller (either remove completly form pump and then remove or find the seam and pry it off with a well pointed flat blade screw driver. Then start turning it in until ether you chicken out, or your idle goes above 1200 or so with the idle screw turned right out (with the exhuast and intercooler setup you have if you run enough boost to burn this fuel (ie around 15-20psi) you will run lower egt # then a stock vwtd.

From here lets move to the the top of the pump under which is located the starwheel the diaphram and the anroid pin.

On the very top is a cap with a 13mm lock nut around a torx screw (i think its a T-25) this is referd to as the smoke screw as it adjusts low rpm / load fueling by turing it clock wise you increse the fuel and normally the smoke and visa versa, a good place to start is about two turns in.

Now lets remove the four screws holding the cap down pull off the cap and you will see a large rubber diaphram **(there should be a puch mark on the metal center take note of the direction it is pointed), with some wiggling and sometimes the added help of a flat balde screwdriver prying on the metal center this should come out with a spring and a nylon washer, at the bottom is the ecentric cone that the anroid pin rides on, if you look around the cone you will see exactly where the pin rides (ware mark) now take the nylon washer and compare the its thickness to the the amont of pin travel to the top of the cone, remove that much from the washer so the pin now can travel to a hair shy of the top of the cone. Incase you havn't realized the amount that pin travels is the amount of fuel avalible under boost so now when we replace the cone and the diaphram we will replace it so that the pin is now riding on the steepest section, BUT before we replace it lets look down into the hole where the starwheel resides. The star wheel adjustment sets the spring tension on the fuel load delivery rate diaphragm. If your star wheel (under the AFC spring) is set too high, the delivery rate pin won't move downward as it should with increasing boost levels. Turning the star wheel up (counterclockwise) increases the spring pressure, and slows the delivery rate. I'd suggest turning the star wheel down (clockwise) in 1/4 turn increments until you smoke, then back off (counterclockwise) till smoke is gone to your satisfaction, or smoke on under power, a black haze, not a black soot cloud. The retaining lock spring doesn't have to be removed, the star wheel will rotate with a small screwdriver gently placed and pried between the wheel and it. Note the location of the wheel, mark it, and count any turns for reference. Remember: Star wheel down=less spring resistance=increased fuel delivery rate.

Ok so far all of the above mods have been free, just basic tuning built into the motor. These next mods may or may not be free depending on your skill and the tools you have.

First We Now need more Air so its time for a manul boost contoroler this can be anything form a fish tank bleeder valve, to a full on greddy electronic boost mangement system. personally I like the grainger valve its cheap, works well and is reliable, here is a link to all sorts of boost contorllers Boost Controlers once again this could be free or it could cost $600.00 depends on what you have and what you want.

Next is injection pump timing, ***IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHEN THE LAST TIME THE TIMMING BLET WAS CHANGED DO IT NOW WHILE YOU ARE DOING TIHS** With that being said you don't have to actually remove the timming belt to do this, but you do need the proper dial gauges, If you don't have them take it to sombody that does, get it set for 1.00mm - 1.05mm factory is .95mm incse anybody cares. once again if you have the tools this could be free if you don't it probably will cost you something.

Finally this last mod is not all that hard but, is high on the pucker factor which is why most people let a shop do it (preferabley at the same time as the mod listed above) this is the govener mod. The govener on this motor start kicking in about 2800 rpm with a limit to about 5450 rpm, now this mod will change your motor from night to day. Imagine if you will your driving along in a normal family car and as you press on the gas you get more fuel so the more load the engine sees and the faster you rev it the more fuel it gets, obviously to a point. no imagine that you are driving that same car and some one has put a govener on it that starts taking away fuel at 2800rpm and by the time you reach 4000rpm even with your foot flat on the floor you it is cutting out the fuel by 80%, now I know you wouldn't except it in a gas motor so why would you in a diesel. The reason I use this analogy is when most people hear rpm mod they think of getting more rpm's and that is partly true you now can take your motor to what ever rpm you think it will hold, however it start to run out of top end breathing at about 5500rpm, though people have had to 6000rpm. The point is that there is a lot of extra power and dirveability with this mod.

Now for the actuall mod, on the cover of the pump (below the boost enrichment device we previously discussed) are four allen screws and a spring assembley it is imparitve that the spring assembly go back to gether exacly the same and on the exact same postion on its shaft so take pictures mark it draw it, what ever you hav eto do to make sure it goes back together the same. (Normally If I am working on a pump Ido this all at the same time I.e. I will pull out all of the above listed pieces and have everything layed out and marked) Now once you are in there you will see a spring assembly that has three parts a very soft idle spring **leave this one as is** an intermidiate spring and a long main sping. These springs are set so that once the idle spring has been compressed it starts to work on the intermidate spring and once that has been taken car of it starts on the main spring, now this main spring is long enough that you never actually get to the end of it in the real world. Here is the options for this mod, you can:

1. replace the intermidate and main sping with a solid piced of tube or strong wire ect... somthing that doesnt compress (I have even heard of fuel line  :shock: )

2. you can place shims (read washers or what have you) in the intermidate spring placing it in coilbind and preloading the main spring by about a 1/4"

3. or you can just replace the intermidate spring with something solid, and preload the main agin by about 1/4"

then re-assemble and double check the spring asembly on the outside cover.

Now go and dirve your new beast you will quite litteraly smoke any stock gti 16v, or 8v, and will probably even keep pace with a well moded gti

And if this still isnt enough let me know and we will talk injectors, propane, nitrous, bigger turbo's, or twin sequntials, head swaps, cams and pump mods to take care of the fueling needs :grinpimp: but all of those cost money.

The most you should spend to get all of the above done is about $350 cdn, (THIS IS NOT INCLUDING THE ** UPFRONT COSTS** SEE ABOVE)  that is including replacing the timing belt and buying a manual boost controller (ebay is a great source lots of ricers to cater too :flipoff2: anyone will work don't worry if it says for a specific brand its just controlling air flow)

And that about wraps up stage one. (or mabey novel #1 :roll: )

Some one correct me If I am wrong, but I belive that at this point you are in the 120HP neighbour hood and depending on how much you can fab and the kind of deals you got along the way it will have cost you anyware from about $200.00 - $2500.00

One more thing to add if your not going to do the gov. mod yourself send your pump to Giles and have him work his magic all at the same time it will save you in the long run of doing bits and picese here and there, that and your pump will be ready for more then any stage that any of us have taken this motor to YET :twisted:
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The Dark Side of Beauty.[/i]

Reply #5May 24, 2004, 03:32:24 pm

DVST8R

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« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2004, 03:32:24 pm »
As for the 150Hp mark your shooting for get through all of that and then we will start looking at stage 2. :wink:
The Brett of the board...



The Dark Side of Beauty.[/i]

Reply #6May 24, 2004, 06:41:16 pm

RevelationX

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« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2004, 06:41:16 pm »
///""""Ok lets start with the max fuel screw as even with out extra boost these motors can still definatly use extra fuel, so for this mod just break off the coller (either remove completly form pump and then remove or find the seam and pry it off with a well pointed flat blade screw driver. Then start turning it in until ether you chicken out, or your idle goes above 1200 or so with the idle screw turned right out (with the exhuast and intercooler setup you have if you run enough boost to burn this fuel (ie around 15-20psi) you will run lower egt # then a stock vwtd.

From here lets move to the the top of the pump under which is located the starwheel the diaphram and the anroid pin.

On the very top is a cap with a 13mm lock nut around a torx screw (i think its a T-25) this is referd to as the smoke screw as it adjusts low rpm / load fueling by turing it clock wise you increse the fuel and normally the smoke and visa versa, a good place to start is about two turns in. """\\\



Can I assume that some of this will apply to N/A motors also...I know the power increase will not be as large but.........

Keith
Power hath decended forth from thy hand
so our feet may swiftly carry out thy command.
And we shall flow a river forth to thee
and teeming with souls shall it ever be....
Inomine Patris,et Filii,etSpiritus Sancti.

Reply #7May 24, 2004, 08:17:13 pm

DVST8R

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« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2004, 08:17:13 pm »
Your asumtion is correct :wink:
The Brett of the board...



The Dark Side of Beauty.[/i]

Reply #8May 24, 2004, 09:28:59 pm

VWRacer

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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2004, 09:28:59 pm »
Great DIY article, DVST8R! 8)

The only improvement I can think of would be to add pics. I have a good digital camera, but you're a long ways away... :(

How do you come by the estimate of 120 hp? Is that from comparing side-by-side performance with other cars? Pro-Tech? Dyno? In any case, the improvements are real, so the exact number probably doesn't really matter. I did get a boost improvement on my Quantum when I disconnected the boost line to the wastegate, so I imagine that if I add fuel I'll see yet more boost and power.  :D
Stan
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Reply #9May 24, 2004, 09:47:04 pm

n_tensetuning

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« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2004, 09:47:04 pm »
i agree.... this is an awesome post!  it would be nice to have some pics, as I'm trying to tweak my pump on my 1.6td and am having a hard time deciphering which one is the max fuel screw etc...

please.....please.... please post some pics or post a pic of the mechanical injection turbo pump, and what screws to play around with.

oh.... what about the pressure relief valve on the intake manifold? i noticed there is a flat head screw in the middle of it. How much adjustment in clockwise/counter-clockwise is allowed?


anyone?
david
81 vw caddy 1.6td

Reply #10May 24, 2004, 11:16:49 pm

VWRacer

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« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2004, 11:16:49 pm »
I found the pics! :D

On the old forum someone posted a link to a post on a third forum ( :roll: ) where pics of this process are posted.

You can read the page in English here.

And in French here.
Stan
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Reply #11May 25, 2004, 12:07:32 am

dieselpower

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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2004, 12:07:32 am »
Quote
You will then want a boost controller to take advantage of the better mass flow capability of the engine. With the turbo you have, I believe you can run about 20psi, and perhaps 25psi as long as your head gasket is in good order. Cost will be anywhere from 5-50 bux for mechanical or a few hundred for electronic.


Turbo DS....i just replaced my head gasket 10000 kms ago.  how much boost do you think is ok to run. I have mine at 13psi right now but am scared to go more cuz i blew a head gasket a while ago.  I dont have an intercooler on it yet so how much do you think is safe for intercooled and non intercooled.
thanks for the help
84 rabbit 1.6TD
because real cars don't have sparkplugs

Reply #12May 25, 2004, 12:32:11 am

DVST8R

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« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2004, 12:32:11 am »
Well I wish I could add some pics, but not only do I not own a digital camera, but I don't even own a normal camera, so we are out of luck.

As far as the numbers it is a guestimate at best, but I have drag raced cars that dynoed in that area and was very competitive, as well as comparing other g-tech plots and the fact that every time you you add 14.7lbs of boost you double the theoretical output of the motor all of this has led me to thta approx # now I may be a ways off but, I'm sure some one on here would be able to correct me to a closer # :wink:

dieselpower the max efficincy on the garret turbo is about 22psi anything above that and you risk damaging it, though I think that dr.d ran one at 27psi for several months as a test and it was fine, however it doesn't make usable power past 22psi, as for the kkk I belive it was 18psi, but I have never had one so I am not certain.

As for how much boost is safe to run with and without an intercooler I think that the more important question is your exhuast if it is 2.25" mandrel bent form turbo back or bigger, your egt's will be fine for the full 22psi, however there isn't anypoint in running 22psi, as with the stock 1.6td pump tweaked to its STOCK max, you only have enough fuel for about 18psi, more important then the psi you are safe to run is that you are running enough psi to burn the extra fuel, running wiht black smoke pouring out behind you is excess fuel and is high egt's however on the other side of things running 22psi and stock fuel is just extra parestic drag. Some things to think about.

For anyone who has pictures and would like to supliment this thread so there is less of the how to make power questions in the future by all means either add them and describe how they fit or email me them and I will add them or perhaps red rotors would "mod" them into place if I am unavalible to do so. Perhaps we should start a vwtd FAQ thread that is "stickyed" to the top of the idi forum???
The Brett of the board...



The Dark Side of Beauty.[/i]

Reply #13May 25, 2004, 01:37:37 am

1985JettaTD

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« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2004, 01:37:37 am »
thank all of u for all the help! but . . . the mods that your talking about are for the 1.6l TD, right? reading the stuff about the fuel pump and looking at the pics makes me feel that these are not something for the 1.6 because the fuel pump in the pic does not look anything like mine and the things that you have described does not sound like what i have seen under my hood. if anyone has pics please post them, it would be a big help!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply #14May 25, 2004, 08:28:40 am

BlackTieTD

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« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2004, 08:28:40 am »
pics look like a 1.6TD to me... they look the same as my engine which is from a 1990 jetta 1.6 turbo diesel if that helps.

 

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