Author Topic: TDi-M Turbo and Fuel Questions (Read 11351 times)

VDub_Fun · « **on:** December 31, 2006, 03:41:19 pm »

Well I finally got a pump from Ohio.

It looks like a 1.5L. I have not had the time yet to get in contact with the builder to find out what the exact specs are. Can anyone see a problem running this pump on a TDi? Its currently on the car, and it runs and drives with no problems except the below problem.

I am having a problem witht the turbo at the moment. The car starts runs and drives, but I can not get more than 5psi of boost from the K14 that I have on the car. The injection pump does need to be checked for timming as I dont have a dail indicator yet and just put the pump on as is when I got it so that I could drive back and forth from work for the week. Can the lack of boost come from improper timming of the pump?

Thanks Again

andy2 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 31, 2006, 05:06:28 pm »

Lack of boost can not be caused by pump timing if the engine runs fine.It could be either a wastegate problem on the turbo the k14/k14 wastegates like to get seized up due to carbon or the inj pump could be underfueling the engine.You need to find out what the fueling specs are when the pump was setup.Find out what size of head was put in that pump either 9,10,11 or 12mm.Did your other TDI-m pump have the aneroid on top of it?Ask the builder why they did not put an aneroid on your pump?How much did you pay for that pump if you don't mind me asking?I've never seen such a bare bones pump before,Looks way too primative IMO.

VDub_Fun · « **Reply #2 on:** January 01, 2007, 12:28:48 pm »

Quote

Lack of boost can not be caused by pump timing if the engine runs fine.It could be either a wastegate problem on the turbo the k14/k14 wastegates like to get seized up due to carbon or the inj pump could be underfueling the engine.You need to find out what the fueling specs are when the pump was setup.Find out what size of head was put in that pump either 9,10,11 or 12mm.Did your other TDI-m pump have the aneroid on top of it?Ask the builder why they did not put an aneroid on your pump?How much did you pay for that pump if you don't mind me asking?I've never seen such a bare bones pump before,Looks way too primative IMO.

The other TDi-M pump that I had looked almost identical to this one, execpt for the fact that the aneroid had been machined off, and caped. I'll get some pictures of it, it does not look like the Passat AAZ one. Besides that it was the top end of a TD pump, with a 1.6L VW number on the housing. Specs on that pump are totaly unknow to me and the person I got it from. The builder of that particular pump will not give away anything on the pump, I have called and asked him personally what was done to it, and he wouldnt say a thing. All he said was to ship it back to him in the Czeck Republic and he would repair it and send it back to me. I will try and get into contact with the builder of my new pump later in the week, as he is on vacation. The pump has had all the Bosch and VW numbers removed from the pump, and it is very very similar to that of a 1.5L N/A injection pump. The only date wheel left on the pump reads that the housing is from 1975.

I will be having the pump timming checked hopefully tommorow as every were is currently closed. I am running the stock TDi injectors in there at the moment. I will be changing thouse out today with the R520 ones to see if it aids the problem.

The Wastegate on the turbo seems to be operating fine, was before the turbo was removed from my AAZ engine. Ive adjusted it to no avial. I only get 5psi at any adjustment, all the way out, and all the way in on the wastegate.

I am personally leaning towards a fueling problem. I have very very little exhaust smoke (checked on a cold start when it was cold out, just a hint of exhaust came from the exhaust) Hopefullly changing the injectors will help. Onece the pump is timmied I will be able to increase the fueling if it is needed.

VDub_Fun · « **Reply #3 on:** January 02, 2007, 03:06:18 pm »

Well I changed the injectors, and it seems to have helped a bit. The Engine runs better and reganed some performance. The turbo though is still only making 5psi. Pump will be timmed on tursday so hopefully that helps out even more.

RabbitJockey · « **Reply #4 on:** January 02, 2007, 07:03:55 pm »

are you using just a 1.5d pump on a tdi? if so that's your problem

RabbitGTDguy · « **Reply #5 on:** January 02, 2007, 07:16:10 pm »

Quote

are you using just a 1.5d pump on a tdi? if so that's your problem

the 1.5 pump could be used as a base for a hybrid...so no that isn't a problem...

Looking at the SAE papers as well...the 1.5 pump offers a bit more gov. range than even the 1.6 pumps since the 1.5 revved slightly higher...which makes it nice for those doing gov. mods, etc...

Will it run the TDI right on? No...

As a base for a hybrid you can use it... you'd need to use at least a 10mm TDI hydraulic head, plunger and camplate assembly...
find a TD LDA assembly and use that with the boost pin of your choice
(you can also use a 11mm pump head, plunger, etc...or even 12mm... hillfolk runs a hybrid pump based on an IDI 1.6 pump...hasn't had issues...)
From there..you'd need to work with the timing advance mech in the pump...
you could cut the piston down (i personally wouldn't do it this way)
or you can swap in the TDI advance piston assembly, etc. as use its cover which simply by looking at it you can tell it allots for quite a bit more advance...

but its possible...

feel like I've said this more than once...

the engine "could" run on it the way it is...but not well... its not up to DI specific injection pressures, nor can it provide the fueling for loaded options, etc. with that small of a head not to mention it can't increase fueling under boost at the moment due to the lack of the LDA assembly and boost pin that allows this...

but anyways...

Joe

RabbitJockey · « **Reply #6 on:** January 02, 2007, 08:39:47 pm »

i mean it sounds like he is using a regular 1.5 pump umodefied, which i'm sure will make it run but i makes sense that he can't get much boost since he wouldn't be getting nearly enough fuel...

RabbitJockey · « **Reply #7 on:** January 02, 2007, 08:40:28 pm »

oh nm i see it's supposedly modefied... but i dunno, he should really find out what his pump has in it

andy2 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 02, 2007, 09:14:03 pm »

I could easialy see his pump being a 1.5/1.6(9mm) with only a TDI camplate,Is this possible though?

RabbitGTDguy · « **Reply #9 on:** January 03, 2007, 05:56:33 am »

possible... but that could cause some problems... I don't think 9mm would be large enough to run a TDI effectively...not to mention, I believe in swapping the camplate from the TDI into the IDI pumps, there are a few slight differents with the plungers "foot print" where it presses against the camplate itself...

I can't say for sure as I went a totally different route with mine, but I remember this being the discussion before elsewhere when it came to the hybrid pumps. I'd want at least 10mm on any TDI pump though...as any from the factory were 10mm to begin with. You need that fuel and pressure to work with...not just the camplate...

Joe

andy2 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2007, 10:50:22 pm »

This may explain why the preformance seems very poor having and 9mm plunger.I think the 9mm plunger will fit into the TDI camplate but the TDI plunger will not fit in the IDI 1.5/1.6 camplate??

VDub_Fun · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2007, 09:43:57 am »

I still cant get specifics of the pump yet, the builder is still on vacation it seems. Today the car is at the shop having the timming on the pump set, well see what this does.

The motor starts and runs well, but under full acceleration it fells that it is lacking in fuel, lacks that punch that a normal TDi or TD would have. The car is running in between a 1.6L TD, and a 1.9L TD from the way it feels when I drive it.

Here are some pictures of the bad Injection pump:

RabbitGTDguy · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2007, 11:52:32 am »

Guess it will be interesting to see... but neither of your pumps has the LDA on it that increases fuel relative to boost which could be a HUGE loss in performance when compared to other cars....why are you not running an LDA? Could very well be why your only "feeling" what you are feeling.
I believe your lack of LDA was mentioned above as well...

Other thing is...it'll def. be interesting to see what that pump builder has to say... no LDA right off...would scare me a bit. Also...what size hydraulic head, which camplate, etc?

The pump could work as a base for a TDI...but it needs some work...right now, it looks like a stock IDI diesel NA pump, not even turbo... and if its running the stock plunger, camplate, and IDI 9mm head...even more "ouch"

Any pictures of your engine? Its def a TDI right...not an older IDI TD or IDI NA?

Joe

andy2 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2007, 06:17:32 pm »

I still think that its just a 1.5/1.6 NA pump with a TDI or equivelant Camplate in it!

VDub_Fun · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2007, 04:07:58 pm »

Well the builder is still away, wish I had this long for vactions.
When I talked to the builder about building a Mech. TDi pump he said that he had done it many times before, and that they ran great. I left it at that after telling him the spec's of the engine a stock 1Z motor. He said No problems. I shouldnt have taken him at face value as he came recommened.

Took the car to the shop to have timming checked, before I took it in I asked specifically if they had a Dail indicator to set timming for a mechanincal injection pump. They said yes. Well I drop my car off as soon as they open , they didnt get to it untill noon, and tell me Oh we dont have a dail indicator to time mechanical injection pumps, we just do it by ear. Is it possible that people can do actually what you ask them to do when they say that they can do it!

Got in contact with the person that provided the orginal motor, and injection pump. He is going to own up and ship me another injection pump, hopefully this one has an LDA. Should be here next friday.

I am thinking the same thing that the LDA is the key here, either that or the Injection pump is way out on timming.

Yes this is a TDI motor, code is 1Z came from Europe. This is not a TD or anyother IDI engine. I had a AAZ 1.9LTD in the car before the swap. The head and injectors give it away. Ill get some pictures later on in the week.

Looking back on things I wish I never did the swap, the AAZ ran great. If I cant get this motor up and running properly it will be going back into the car. So far this has been one of the worst experances yet.

Author Topic: TDi-M Turbo and Fuel Questions (Read 11351 times)

andy2

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