Author Topic: Conversion Q (Read 6743 times)

Typrus · « **on:** December 16, 2006, 09:33:54 pm »

Hello. I have an 84 Toyota Tercel 4wd Wagon. I love this car very much, but am a bit dissatisfied with my stock powerplant.
3AC 1.5L I-4. 8-Valve SOHC 2-bbl gas carbureted.
62HP at 5200RPM
74 ft/lb at 2400 or so RPM.

She's a wee gutless.

My mom has a 96 TDI Passat with 1Z 1.9L TDI. Great little car. Gutsy and excellent fuel economy.

So, I posted over on tdiclub.com about a conversion, and was informed that a 1.6TD might be better for me.

My main issues-

Longitudinal engine alignment. My car is all-time Front-Wheel Drive, shift-on-the-fly TRUE 4wd. Not AWD. No center diff.
The stocker tranny will handle about 100HP and 100ft/lb before grenading under any kind of realistic driving style. Much of any driveline shock above the 100 figure blows things apart, and I do love to drive hard.

So part of my discussion over there has been over transmissions.

I want to maintain longitudinal setup. Its just sooo easy to work on stuff in that configuration.

If possible, I want to retain my 4wd. Where I live (Colorado mountains) snow and ice are very much realities and 4wd is a true God-send.

I want stock ride height or lower. I love to zip through mountain passes and adore my handling now. Lowered with proper compensation would not only aide that, but help my flying shoebox get a little better fuel economy. It may not be realistic, but I can still hope, right?
On that point, the question of a Subaru drivetrain is pretty much invalid. I can't stuff an inline-4 anything (diesel or no) in front of the little room that configuration gives without severely compromising CV shaft angles in the front.

It may come down to having to either settle for RWD or go for a lift and throw a 4Runner or Pickup 4wd driveline under there. (shrug)

So... If anyone has suggestion on that point, I'd love to hear them.

Now, to why I'm here.

What does the 1.6TD come in? How much does it usually cost to grab one for? What should I know about it? I know that both the 1Z and the 3AC (my engine) are ClockWise rotation (veiwing from crank pulley) but I do not know if the 1.6TD is. This is the first hurdle.
What is its powerband? I've been told it revs over 5k, but not what kind of grunt it has.

I turn about 3300RPM at 75mph with stock gearing. I've been told I could stuff a 7th gear in my box, but don't know for sure. If nothing else, I can stuff big tires on there :lol:

Can anyone offer any pics?

I've also been told its dirt simple to install and run. This is good, as all my car has in terms of electronics is an Emissions "smartbox" that reads the O2 and kicks a few flappers open or closed.

How bad does this stinker smoke? I've seen some old Rabbit 1.5's that can really spew it at my elevation, and I do not want to contribute to the smog problem.

Yes, I talk alot. Thanks to everyone for any help they can offer. Its very much appreciated.

deepmud · « **Reply #1 on:** December 16, 2006, 09:54:55 pm »

holy cow. I'm the least "normal" type (vehicle-wise) hanging around here, but you may win the oddmanout competition

subaru are flat fours, only two cylinders deep.

all the VW AWD stuff is longitudinal - you said there's no room for 4 cylinders tho' - I'm not sure I am following you exactly.

There are adapter kits to bolt VW to the bolt pattern of the Toyota 22R - don't know if your trans would take that. If you decided to lift it and put a 4x4 Toyota truck drivetrain under it that would work.

The 1.6td can easily exceed 100 ft lbs. But Suzuki Samurai have teeny trannies and seem to hold up to the 1.6td. Maybe you could make a 1.6td Tercel work, but you'd make my custom 4x4 look typical :lol:

Typrus · « **Reply #2 on:** December 16, 2006, 10:06:25 pm »

Heh.

Here we go again...
Oh screw it, I'll just copy and paste-

Toyota lesson!

If you look at the engine codes of various Toyota's, you'll learn more than you think.

3A-C. 3= Engine Series. A= Engine Family "A". C=... Well, there are several ideas for what it means, but carbureted is not one of them.

22R-TEC= 22=Egnine Series. R= Engine Family "R". T= Turbocharged. E= Fuel injected. C= who knows.

2JZ-FZTE= 2=Series, JZ= Family "JZ", F= Economy angled dual overhead cam, Z= Supercharged, T= Turbocharged (that makes this engine a Twincharger... Only set up custom) E= Fuel injected.

The Toyota aftermarkets have been making twinchargers out of Silver and Blacktop 4AGE's long before VW released its production of the Twincharger engine. 600+HP has been seen out of the little 1.6L's.

The engine family is a useful thing to know, not only because it tells you that the 4A-C, 4A-GE, and 3A-C are all in the same engine family ("A") but because they are in the same engine family, the transmission bellhousing bolt patterns are EXACTLY the same. So, in theory, I could slap a 20v 4AGE onto my car with relative ease, only having to trim the flywheel diameter down a bit. But it'd grenade without custom internals.

So I cannot bolt a 22RE pickup engine to my 3AC's tranny. Nor can I bolt up a 2CL diesel to my tranny. That aside, my bellhousing is permantly attached to my tranny. It is the same casting piece as the front differential housing.
So aside from having the tranny gears custom re-cut (which I would do if I had the $$$) I don't havemuch choice. Getting them recut bigger and from better material in a new gear ratio set would be awesome, if it wouldn't wind up being crazy-expensive.

Yay.
You think a Sammie is A-Typical? You haven't been to Colorado then, have you? Oh wait... It looks like you have Mattracks on there.... That would be an a-typical feature...

Here's some pics of my baby for you.

Yes, I know they are 2 or 3 deep, thus the lack of room. The closest to viable Subie would be an SVX, but its track is about 4 inches wider. That'd look a little funky.

Are they longitudinal? Anyone have pics from a Synchro or 4Motion? I doubt that'd be a cheap mod, but it might be worth a glance.... Biggest issue with those kind of changes is with the track, overall length, and mounting up the componants.

You want funky- Check this Rabbit out!
http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1902&highlight=rabbit
Take one 83 Rabbit... Take a Suzuki Samurai.... What do you get? :shock:

deepmud · « **Reply #3 on:** December 16, 2006, 11:02:11 pm »

I have a Samurai with an intercooled VW 1.9TDI-M bolted to a W56 and Toyota axles with Longfields, mounted via custom "one-link" coils with a wheelbase stretched from 80 to 108 inches, tires are 39.5x18x15r Super Swamper Boggers - the "mattracks" are home built track assemblies - not actually mattracks, and they were thought up after seeing Una-Tracks from the 70's, pre-mattracks.

It's not really a Samurai anymore.

So anyway - whatever.

By the time you swap an AWD VW into the Toyota you may consider the option of just getting a VW or AUDI in the first place.

Of course I understand swaps to get something that does what you want - but if I could have just bought a diesel mini-4x4, I would have. What would a conversion do for you that you can't just go and get? Make youself a list of why you'd do the conversion, and what advantages you'd have - if you feel it's worth it - make it happen. You may end up with a 250hp turbo-tdi 4x4 rallycar diesel hybrid and really like it.

I've seen that rabbit online before - the spitfire is cooler lol.

Typrus · « **Reply #4 on:** December 17, 2006, 10:30:14 am »

Here's some goodies for you.

Thats with the engine pulled on my 86.

Anything need to know? Measurements, tranny splines, etc?

cubevandude · « **Reply #5 on:** December 24, 2006, 04:54:48 pm »

I'm watching to see what happens. Somebody just put a f*****g diesel into one of these cars so I can convert my fleet of tercels. I just bought a AWD Camry to see if there is any way a vw diesel will fit. A project for down the road.

:shock:

RabbitJockey · « **Reply #6 on:** December 24, 2006, 06:43:29 pm »

you could always just buy one of those imported awd mk3 golfs off ebay, then everything will bolt right in.

LeeG · « **Reply #7 on:** December 24, 2006, 10:40:18 pm »

Quote

Anyone got a Passat G60 Syncro Wagon for sale?

Its not mine, but someone locally has been trying to unload a 1992 passat g60 syncro wagon for a couple months. currently $6k Canadian

http://www.thedov.com/forum/index.php?topic=106726.0

I'd heard that the gearing in them was not very diesel friendly though. Anyone?

The Canadian military recently dumped all their old VW/Bombardier Iltis. They come up on Ebay and locally periodically. They'd be a natural for a diesel and a dead easy swap. A friend brought one over from Germany a few years ago. It went pretty good with the 1.7 gas, handled pretty good too.[/quote]

Turbinepowered · « **Reply #8 on:** December 24, 2006, 11:33:22 pm »

Quote from: "LeeG"

Quote
Anyone got a Passat G60 Syncro Wagon for sale?

Its not mine, but someone locally has been trying to unload a 1992 passat g60 syncro wagon for a couple months. currently $6k Canadian

Hmmm... wonder why it's not selling? If it's as rare as he says, it should go pretty fast; just not a high demand for supercharged AWD wagons in Canada?

commuter boy · « **Reply #9 on:** December 25, 2006, 10:22:37 pm »

High mileage I imagine. It's approaching the age at which everything in the Passats start to biodegrade.

LeeG · « **Reply #10 on:** December 25, 2006, 10:46:31 pm »

high mileage, the g60 isn't known for being cheap and easy to maintain, plus that mention of bodywork. Nice looking in the pictures though.

itzdshtz · « **Reply #11 on:** December 26, 2006, 11:24:45 am »

The 2.8-V6 shares the same tranny bolt pattern with all the I-5s ( don't know about the new golf 5 cyl yet) and the VR6 and is different from all the I-4s.

Typrus · « **Reply #12 on:** December 27, 2006, 09:28:15 pm »

<blink> <blink>

I wish I had that kind of money guys. This is kind of research and development time for me. I have no money and am prepping for college (watches as everyone winces) so $$$ is very questionable.

I'm trying to get it all figured out though.

Who has a fleet of Tercs? What do you call a fleet? I have 3 4wd wagons and an 81 Corolla Terc. I've been accused of having my own fleet.

If you do have a Terc 4wd fleet.....

www.tercel4wd.com/forums

LeeG · « **Reply #13 on:** December 27, 2006, 10:54:55 pm »

no, no, not trying to diss your project by bringing up the vw syncro idea. Do the tercel / idi thing, keep us posted. its the kind of thing that keeps this forum going.

The Tercel 4x4 was one of the first awd/4wd cars to make it in NA. I lusted after one once upon a time but the ones I could afford were way too rusty.

In the 'pictures of your diesel in all its glory' mega thread you will find a link to a guys 1.9 -> landrover swap. Check it out, he did a nice job mocking up the adapter plate using plywood and particle board. it let him solve all his starter, flywheel clutch questions before investing time and $ into the adapter

Typrus · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2006, 07:20:43 pm »

Heh.
I got my 84 (the one pictured) for $400. The 86 for $600. The 87 my folks got in 88 for maybe $4k? I dunno. Can't remember.

You just have to know where to look. And get kind of lucky.

Remember, body panels can be replaced/fixed fairly easily. If the uni-body "frame" is damaged, however, drop it.

Subie came first, but then the Terc 4wd came along. The Terc 4wd out-reviewed and out-tested the Subie for every production year. That alone should have told Toyota to keep making it... (sigh)