consequences of advanced timing??? - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• consequences of advanced timing??? by jtanguay on 14 Dec, 2006 12:21
• Yesterday me and andy2 set the timing on my car after installing his rebuilt injection pump ! yay no more leaks!!!!!
  
  we set the timing to around 1.05 or 1.06...  now what would be the drawback? decreased fuel mileage???  increase egt or decrease egt?
  
  this thing starts better than ever before... first little crank and she goes!!! before it would take 1-2 cranks or so, and then be quite cranky... as in it would vibrate and buck a bit.  fires really strong!  VERY happy...
  
  if it only decreased my mileage / egt, then i will leave it the way it is and change it once summer arrives  i can live with easier cold starts for sure
• #1 by Doug on 14 Dec, 2006 19:06
• You are right that the motor will start easier and run cooler too. There will be less visible oil burning as well. Downside is the pump is working harder.
• #2 by jackbombay on 14 Dec, 2006 21:08
• Quote from: "Doug"

  Downside is the pump is working harder.

  
  
    Why? it's still injecting X amount of fuel, I can;t see how it would be more work for the pump to inject it slightly earlier.
  
    Advanced timing will lower EGT, but make the pistons run hotter, and it will give you better slightly better MPGs, but at the expense of increased PCP.
• #3 by jtanguay on 15 Dec, 2006 05:26
• hmmm harder on pistons you say...  :?
  
  eventually i will be dropping in a rebuilt motor... so as long as it lasts me till the summer i'm good.
  
  one thing i can say... the car now starts with cold start pushed in on at around 0C whereas before it would buck without the cold start advance.
  
  i'm really digging the advanced timing... but i find that my motor doesn't heat up as much as it was before.  a
  
  s for mileage, i will wait until my needle reaches low and then fill up and record what i get on it  
  
  it gives me quite a bit of smoke if i tell it to go, and there seems to be less power up top than my previous pump.  maybe all it needs is a bit of tweaking... but i am still okay with it the way it is
• #4 by jackbombay on 16 Dec, 2006 07:11
• Quote from: "jtanguay"

  hmmm harder on pistons you say...  :?

  
  
      I was thinking of a TDI, its probably not "as bad" with an IDI. With the TDI advancing timing reduces EGT, but the heat does go somewhere, most of it goes into the pistons and the little bit of left over energy makes the car go because of slightly better efficiency. I'm sure the trend (advanced timing better efficiency) is similar for the IDIs though.
• #5 by jtanguay on 16 Dec, 2006 07:36
• makes perfect sense though.. since the heat does need to go somewhere.  the piston will have more time to absorb the heat (as well as other components, and give a little longer time to burn for better cold starts)
• #6 by ricosuave on 16 Dec, 2006 10:11
• thats something that i just thought of recently
  
  most everyone talks about advancing the timing on a 1.9 idi, but i dont think ive ever heard of anyone advancing the timing on a 1.9 tdi.
  
  why not?
• #7 by jtanguay on 16 Dec, 2006 10:14
• advanced timing usually just means added stress on engine components... but better power.
• #8 by jackbombay on 16 Dec, 2006 12:27
• Quote from: "ricosuave"

  thats something that i just thought of recently
  
  most everyone talks about advancing the timing on a 1.9 idi, but i dont think ive ever heard of anyone advancing the timing on a 1.9 tdi.
  
  why not?

  
  
    With a TDI timing advances have to be made via the software so it more involved than an IDI, some tuners advance timing and others don't.
• #9 by AdAm84 on 18 Dec, 2006 18:02
• i would imagine that most tuners would. on the big diesels that i'm more familiar with (ex. duramax, powerstroke, cummins) the tuners change preassure, pulsewidth and timing. different amounts of each create the different power levels. the timing is usually adjusted for the "economy setting. but these are common rail injected.
• #10 by jtanguay on 19 Dec, 2006 22:28
• well i will share my experiences with advanced timing.
  
  1.  engine seems to create heat a little quicker, but takes a little while to reach operating temp.  +
  2.  engine seems a bit peppier, but i need to install a 1.6 boost pin before i can truly compare. (absolutely no smoke under boost and thats floored..)
  3.  cold starting is a breeze.
  4.  can't report on fuel mileage yet, but i suspect it will be in the 700km/tank range pretty much all city driving.  which is pretty much gogogo type driving.  i still need new injectors!
  5.  sounds like the lifters are making quite a bit of noise before 1800 rpm or so.  sounds like something is rattling around... but i think that was there before!
  
  i wonder what the pistons will look like...  :lol:
• #11 by Malacaco on 20 Dec, 2006 04:28
• well, i can only say that i ran my car with advanced timing for a while and everything you say checks except that the engine ran hotter and there was a lot of smoke. couldn't  tell any difference for fuel mileage with the pump in the correct position
• #12 by Benjamin on 20 Dec, 2006 04:48
• 
  
  Greetz, Benjamin
• #13 by jtanguay on 20 Dec, 2006 08:31
• Thanks Benjamin!
  
  pretty much bang on.  If i give her while not in boost, i see quite a bit of black smoke.
  
  and for the extra pollution, yea it does smell a bit strong.  oh well.
  
  i'm still pretty much babying the car though.