Author Topic: 1.9 TD power question... (Read 19922 times)

gldgti · « **on:** December 08, 2006, 03:29:33 am »

hey guys,

I've been considering inporting a 1.9 TD for myself in the not so distant future, to replace my little 1.5.

I do enjoy my 5.3l/100km at the moment, but i really want a turbo engine with some more grunt. also, this will allow me to use my faithful 1.5 in my final year mech eng project (and hopefully make it very powerful too ;-) ).

what i want to know is, how much power will a 'late 80's/early 90's 1.9TD be putting out stock (assuming its woring well)... I've hear figures of 90hp, but dont know how much torque.

also, i'll be wanting increase power to something like 120 hp and as much torque as i can have, but iwant you guys opinion on turbo spooling for hiway driving.... is it going to be more economical to have a little turbo, ora larger one that isnt spooling while criusing easily?

cheers

aydan

Baxter · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2006, 10:32:05 am »

From stock they are 75 bhp, unsure or torque.

Chestrockwell · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2006, 10:33:56 am »

Hey, I've got a '97 1.9TD and I think they're rated at 70 hp 140lb-ft from the factory. Before I got the pump tuned and upgraded turbo and a bunch of other stuff, I'd say it wasn't 70hp and the mileage wasn't great. Maybe 500k/tank. Since new injector nozzles and all the work done it's up to 600k/tank (~50L tank). I changed the stock K03 turbo for a T3 and it's way nicer on the highway; at cruising speed, the boost comes on quick and on mine it goes to 27-30psi depending on load conditions. The stock turbo was great for off the line stuff, but not even comparable on the highway. So my assumption is that the new injector nozzles and pump are mostly responsible for the reduced fuel consumption, but the different turbo and added intercooler are likely responsible for some of the change. By driving feel and comparison to other vehicles I would guess it's close to 120hp at the motor... just a guess.

Otis2 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 08, 2006, 01:21:02 pm »

Aydan, I think the 1.6TD was rated at 69 HP @ 4500 RPM and 98 ft.lbs. @ 2500 RPM. The 1.9TD (AAZ) was rated at 75 HP @ 4500 RPM and 114 ft.lbs. at 2500 RPM. I'm sure those are rated at the crankshaft. Rated at the wheel would be much lower. Really kind of dismal numbers, factory stock.

Here's a dyno graph of the factory stock horsepower & torque (unfortunately in metric, kW and Nm), of the 1.6TD (MF) and 1.9TD (AAZ) engines, comparing their output with the Vanagon stock gasoline waterboxer engines (1.9 and 2.1 litre engines). I'm not sure how accurate it is, or where fastforward got the original data, but gives you a general idea of the shape of the respective power curves, factory stock.

There are a few guys here who have posted their dyno graphs of their modded engines. Search "dyno" on this forum and you should get some hits.

1.6TD dyno:

1.9TD dyno:

Chestrockwell... a couple of questions for you.

1) Is your T3 from a 1.6TD VW engine, or is it a non-VW T3 with a larger housing? What's the A/R?

2) What kind of injectors did you put in? Just new stock ones, or something more exotic, like GTD injectors?

I've read some pretty contradictory things about installing GTD injectors on the AAZ. Some butt-dynos say noticeably more power (but hard to say whether brand-new *stock* injectors would have had the same effect) , some say no power difference but less smoking, some say no power difference but more smoking, etc. I don't think there is any consensus that if you put "X" new injectors on an AAZ, you will see "Y" power increase.

This seems to contrast with the TDI world, the new injector path seems to be pretty well-worn and proven with objective data.

I'd love to see some objective dyno data for the AAZ re: before & after, with "before = new stock injectors", and "after = new GTD (or other exotic) injectors".

Chestrockwell · « **Reply #4 on:** December 08, 2006, 03:09:08 pm »

Turbo is from an '86 Golf 1.6TD I think, as is the manifold. .42 turbine a/r and .42 or .48 compressor a/r rings a bell. The injectors are GTD injectors. I don't think they do anything different than stock nozzles; I was mostly going after the improvements seen by just rebuilding injectors. GTD nozzles were easier for me to source and probably the same cost as stockers. I don't attribute any performance gains to them. I'm pretty sure there have been before/after dyno comparisons with stock and GTD injector nozzles showing no difference.

ricosuave · « **Reply #5 on:** December 08, 2006, 04:15:07 pm »

Quote from: Chestrockwell

Hey, I've got a '97 1.9TD and I think they're rated at 70 hp 140lb-ft from the factory. Before I got the pump tuned and upgraded turbo and a bunch of other stuff, I'd say it wasn't 70hp and the mileage wasn't great. Maybe 500k/tank. Since new injector nozzles and all the work done it's up to 600k/tank (~50L tank). I changed the stock K03 turbo for a T3 and it's way nicer on the highway; at cruising speed, the boost comes on quick and on mine it goes to 27-30psi depending on load conditions. The stock turbo was great for off the line stuff, but not even comparable on the highway. So my assumption is that the new injector nozzles and pump are mostly responsible for the reduced fuel consumption, but the different turbo and added intercooler are likely responsible for some of the change. By driving feel and comparison to other vehicles I would guess it's close to 120hp at the motor... just a guess.

i cant say for sure due to the nozzles and tuning youve done, but surely you should be getting better than 500-600 a tank!

i get ~850-900 in the summer and 650-750 in the winter and my car is all stock with stock timing!

Chestrockwell · « **Reply #6 on:** December 08, 2006, 05:13:21 pm »

Yes, pardon me, I forgot to mention that I drive the car mostly in the city these days on short trips usually. When I use most of a tank on the highway it definately goes farther on a tank; easily more than 700 if I'm not to heavy on the pedal.

gldgti · « **Reply #7 on:** December 10, 2006, 03:04:29 pm »

ok, so it sounds like a t3 is a good turbo choice....

if your getting 800-900 km/tank on hiway i'd be more htan happy wih that.. what im realyl seeing is that my 1500 get about hte same economy as a well tuned 1.6 or 1.9 T, because i have to be a lot heavier on the right foot with less power.... well i dont have to be but i am.

95gltd · « **Reply #8 on:** February 27, 2007, 08:35:23 am »

my 95 golf td 1.9 has got a best of ~6.5l/100km Stock with 250,000 km. (rebuilt turbo) i think the injectors are bad also. Best i've done is 850 km on 55l. It has alot more power than the old n/a 1.6 i can actually pass cars on the highway now with out needing a 3 km stright away lol.

bert · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27, 2007, 09:45:13 am »

I have used a AAZ with a 1.6TD T3 and its amazing,ive only altered the aneroid pin,nothing else,T3 good choice.

Bert

g-spec · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2007, 10:21:22 am »

It's good to hear positive things about the T3!! I installed it on my 1.9IDI but I havent driven it too much yet since I got it not too long ago and Im still working on it!! I just drove it around the block!!!!
Soon to have front mount and exhaust along with some mods!!!

jimfoo · « **Reply #11 on:** February 27, 2007, 03:09:01 pm »

Quote from: Otis2

Aydan, I think the 1.6TD was rated at 69 HP @ 4500 RPM and 98 ft.lbs. @ 2500 RPM. The 1.9TD (AAZ) was rated at 75 HP @ 4500 RPM and 114 ft.lbs. at 2500 RPM. I'm sure those are rated at the crankshaft.

I don't think engines have been rated at the crank since in the 70's. My Rover had 77 hp stock at the crank. I upped the compression to 9:1 added a header and 2bbl carb., and it did much better. But my 1.9 kicked it's butt. It had the fuel turned up a little before I got it, and I ran 13 psi, but nothing major. By the way, my Rover's wheel hp was 42 with the gas engine, so that's why I'm sure the 75 must be at the wheels.

Author Topic: 1.9 TD power question... (Read 19922 times)

Baxter

95gltd