Types of Dial Indicators

[jtanguay]

Well it would seem as though my dial indicator is not the same as the vw dial indicator.

The main dial indicator is a two piece system.  The indicator, and a hollow shaft that screws into the spot where the dial indicator goes into, and the dial indicator slides into the hollow center of the shaft.  there is a locking bolt to keep the dial indicator held firmly in place so that it does not move.

what i need to know is, where should i tighten the dial indicator on the shaft?  seems quite confusing when the bentley manual has the correct dial indicator

now here is my interpretation of how to set the dial indicator up.  install the locking pin on the injection pump, and zero the dial indicator or set it to 2.5mm?  once the dial indicator is set, lock the dial indicator to the hollow shaft so that it does not move.

am i pretty much screwed?  i bought it off ebay... check out the picture to see what im talking about ok.  the hollow shaft is right beside the camshaft locking plate.  It screws right into the timing hole on the injection pump, no probs.  The locking screw i was talking about is plainly visible sticking out and is black.  The extension beside that screws onto the end of the dial indicator.

to sum it up i hooked everything up, stick the dial indicator in, and i'm getting about 7mm.  its a brand new pump, do these things not come at .9mm or 1mm?  if not thats cool.  Maybe I'm sticking the shaft in too far as well...  but i need to know how to work these funky tools



any and all info greatly appreciated!

[LeeG]

That stuff should work fine, you have a set screw the one shown in Bently has a locking collet, same idea, the indicator locks in place in the adapter.

You shouldnt need the lock pin once you get to the stage of setting the timing with dial indicator.

screw the shaft onto dial indicator, screw hollow adapter into pump, slide dial indicator in far enough that you know it has sufficient range of travel in both directions to stay in contact.  (think of piston going back and forth, dial indicator has to stay in contact at bottom of the stroke and still have some extra travel at top of stroke.)  Bently talks about preloading the dial indicator, what that means is you slide the indicator in until it reads 2.5 mm, then lock it in place, leaving 5 mm extra travel.  2.5 mm may not be right for you, if your indicator has more or less travel.

[jtanguay]

ok so i think i'm understanding this now.

i basically have to turn the pump sprocket until the indicator stops moving, and then zero it, right?  I'm also guessing that the piston has to be in the position where it travels outward to squeeze the fuel.

suddenly things are coming together now... i never really thought of injection timing until recently when i bought this new pump.  all works on the principles of the piston squirting the fuel into the injectors and timing is set by the protrusion of the piston in the shaft on the pump... neat!  :roll:   :lol:

now that i have the timing bit down... its time to figure out what to do with the bracket mounting situation...  i wonder if a 1.6 might fit? if not i have a whole bunch of tools to drill... or even make a new mounting plate

thanks again for your help

[Darkness_is_spreading]

I bought the same kit of Ebay,  this Post will help alot for timming my pumps.....  

I have a second unit that I got for dirt cheap, I also put it into a case. If anyone is interested send me a PM.

[burn_your_money]

Last time I tried timing my jetta my dial indicator went nuts (jumped up, then down, etc)

I broke the vacumm booster dealy and gave up

[LeeG]

my dial indicator went nuts (jumped up, then down, etc)

The dial indicators can't take any side load, it makes the shaft stick and jump around.  I had the same problem and had to remove the vacuum hose to get clearence for the dial indicator to work properly.   The hose was just touching it.


It is worth mastering this, your car will thank you.

[LeeG]

its time to figure out what to do with the bracket mounting situation...  

Also see http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5721


You want to put a 1.9 IP on a 1.6?  I havent done this but my reading on here makes me think that it bolts together no mods needed.  You need the 1.9 pulley to go with the pump though.

Certainly the 1.9 IP I have fits right in place on my spare 1.6 block.  I dont have a 1.9 pulley to check that part with though.  Anyone got one for sale cheap?  

Can anyone comment on how a 1.9 IP affects a 1.6?

[burn_your_money]

It is worth mastering this, your car will thank you.

I had it down pat on my rabbit, there was alot more room in that engine bay. I"ll give it another go one of these days when it warms up.

[jtanguay]

if the dial indicator cannot take any side load, would lubing the shaft of the dial indicator help a bit? these dial indicators are super jumpy and sensitive...  my first time will be quite 'fun' hehehe!  

and about the pulley situation... looks like i'm screwed in that dept...  looking at the bracket, it looks nearly identical to others in pictures.  i have to drive out to where my car is stored and get the spare injection pump and compare the two.

man totally sucks.. i hope the pulley will work!  anyone got one for sale dirt cheap?  :lol:

this pump will give me a good mpg increase, and power increase as my old pump was leaking, and was probably due for a rebuild...  a regular 1.6 pump should be about the same.  as i had asked in a previous post though, is there any difference in cam lift?  i've seen a post with some pictures of the cam profiles... and i think i remember seeing that the 1.9 is better than a 1.6, but not sure... if anyone can find that post that would be super cool.

[jtanguay]

okay well i just found out what you meant by jumpiness of the dial indicator with side loads...  :lol:  lubing that thing has nothing to do with it...  i absolutely can't wait to time the motor...

just have to pray that the ip sprocket (from a 91 motor) fits the 1.9 pump.  to me it would make sense to have just one... having more than one type just makes more parts...  pleeeeeeeaaaase be interchangeable!!!

[LeeG]

I am not sure if the shaft tapers are the same, they look close, but the shafts do stick out further.....pretty sure you need a 1.9 pulley.  

I can take pictures of the 2 pumps side by sied if you want

[Doug]

If you have it apart then count the number of teeth on the crank sprocket. If the number is the same and the same size belt fits both why change sprockets? If you need to correct the pump position then shim the pump where it bolts to the backing plate.

[jtanguay]

well poopity poop pooooooooooo [insert poo emoticon here]!!!!!!!!!! LeeG is right on the money, mainly because he has access to both style pumps  :lol: .  the 1.9 pump sticks out like about 2 inches further than the 1.6 pump.  i'm either going to get a machinist to recess the sprocket, or find a 1.9 sprocket (if it will even work!)

leeg, does the 1.9 sprocket recess inward?  one other obstacle that isn't any real concern is the fact that the shaft will be sticking out of the timing belt shroud piece... thats easily fixed with some plastic and glue etc...  

i guess what im saying is, with a 1.9 sprocket and 1.9 pump, does the pulley line up the same as the 1.6 pump and sprocket? if so, i am buying one for $57 bux owasco, or if anyone will sell me one... i will buy it (otherwise i'm machining the 1.6 one...)

learning the hard way sucks... but its still learning, and learning is fun!  :lol:

oh yeah, the taper is the same... maybe just slightly smaller, but i doubt it.
i was thinking of shimming the pump, but 2 inches is a lot... and the injection lines don't like to bend that much... and the fact that the coolant line running from the head is right there doesn't help any (and timing??? forget that... wouldn't be any room really)  

haha btw... on my parts car i broke the vacuum line trying to cut the clip holding it on.  man i love parts cars!  :roll:  :twisted:

[LeeG]

the end of the 1.9 IP shaft is 60mm from pump mount flange surface, the 1.6 shaft is 40mm.

I read on here somewhere not too long ago that you could use the 1.9IP and 1.9 Pulley on a 1.6, so the 1.9 pulley must be recessed.

maybe your 1.9 ip onto 1.6 thread will attrack someone who has done this before.

[jtanguay]

i really hope so.  thanks for all your help LeeG.

i really really want to get this pump working on my car. hate letting it sit for so long... i start it up every once in a while, but problems start occurring when you let things sit...