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Water in new Engine!!!!
by
GomerPile
on 21 Nov, 2006 23:48
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OK, I feel like a damn idiot!!!!
The short story is I didn't have a covered workspace or even space near home and I didn't get my project done before the fall rains came. Busy weekends and all kinds of crap going on, blah blah blah... Anyway My newly built engine (1.6na)was under a tarp waiting for my return when a gusty storm blew off the tarp. Yesterday when I came to rescue the engine and parts I could hear water sloshing around in the oil pan!!!! The newly surfaced flywheel was super rusty too!
The head is already bolted on and the injectors glow plugs and injection pumps are also installed so far. So far my plan is pull the head to check the cylinder walls for rust, and pull the oil pan and get some heat on it to dry it out. Is there any standard protocol for dealing with this??? (not that having water sloshing around in the oil pan is anuything close to a standard situation!) Anybody have some good ideas here? Does this even sound salvagable? Hmmm... maybe I should talk to some marine engine folks...
I sincerely apologize for degrading the technical level of discussion on this great site with this admission of pure stupidity and neglect and appreciate any attempts to offer advice.
Regards,
Gomer Pile
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#1
by
GomerPile
on 23 Nov, 2006 16:54
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Thanks Andrew. I'll follow your suggestion to lube everything. The bottom end was assembled by a highly reputable local engine builder, I would bet he used assembly lube on the journals. Haven't aked him though - I've been too embarrased about leaving it out under a tarp to admit to him!
Anyway, I'm having second thoughts about pulling the head now. I know the cylinders are the most important thing, but... There was only about a half cup of water in the pan. I looked in the intake and exhaust ports on the back of the head and everything looks clean and rust free. The water probably just flowed through the ports in the back of the head to the pan and passed the cylinders altogether.
Is this unwise or a good way to avoid unnecessary hassle?
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#2
by
burn_your_money
on 23 Nov, 2006 17:34
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What all was installed on the engine? manifolds, valve cover?
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#3
by
addautomotive
on 24 Nov, 2006 05:58
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If the water flowed through "ports in the back of the head", that means it would have gone through the cylinders.
Even then, I'd say oil it really, really well and turn it over by hand. From what you described, we're only talking about a coupel days being wet, right? I can't imagine any pitting after that little time... I could believe surface rust. Also, I would think it would have been lubed for assembly.
Personnaly, I'd oil everything really really well and pull the oil pan to check everything carefully. Crank it over a few times by hand. Then I'd run it. That's what I'd do, but others may be a lot more caustious than me. I'd ask some of the guys here who actually work in garages. If this was a customer's engine, what would you recommend?
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#4
by
GomerPile
on 24 Nov, 2006 12:14
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The head was/is installed along with glow plugs, injectors, water pump, injection pump, clutch and flywheel. No manifolds, valve cover, or coolant hoses. It was only exposed directly to rain for a couple days, but it was under a drafty tarp in cool damp conditions for weeks. It was sitting leaning back resting on the right rear engine mount which is why I think the water in the pan probably only came via the two ports in the back corners of the head where the bolt heads and cam are located. Looked like they travel straight down through the back rear corners of the block to the pan past the cylinders, but sounds like I'm missing something. Are we talking about the same thing?
Thanks very much for all of the suggestions and cautions. I'm almost committed to just oiling everything really well and going for it, but haven't committed just yet.
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#5
by
Darkness_is_spreading
on 24 Nov, 2006 20:00
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I would pull the motor apart.... why risk slapping some oil in there and firing it up to find..... O no I have rust in the motor..... water some where and this displaces my oil.....
It will be hell but worth it in the long run..... Also quick question why would you keep a rebult motor under a tarp outside......
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#6
by
jtanguay
on 24 Nov, 2006 22:05
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well not a smart idea leaving it exposed under a tarp. if i was going to store a rebuilt motor I would have it all lubed very well, and then completely wrap it up with bubble wrap or a big tarp... seal it up good
and store it somewhere warm if i could.
i would agree on the surface rust for sure. gotta get rid of that. it wouldn't really pose a big problem would it? i could see if the rust flaked off and got stuck in between a bearing... wouldn't the rust just get flushed through the oil?
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#7
by
GomerPile
on 24 Nov, 2006 22:17
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"why would you keep a rebult motor under a tarp outside......"
It was part of a transplant project with 2 cars. The only space I had was a driveway at my grandparents farm a little drive away. I was starting to put the motor together and planning on dropping it in weeks ago before I got stuck with the injection pump and then got swamped with other stuff: weekend work, some out of town travel, and then a more pressing project of replacing a roof - rain really sucks without one of those! Anyway, it is what it is and I do what I can. Should have taken the time to get it inside someplace though.
Thanks again for all the suggesions and advice on here. Definately a good site. Anyone else really thinking I ought to at least pull the head and the oil pan before I go on with it? Is it much trouble cleaning up the gasket surfaces to redo them when they haven't been driven? I used the copper spray stuff on the head gasket.
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#8
by
burn_your_money
on 25 Nov, 2006 05:59
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I used the copper spray stuff on the head gasket.
You may as well pull it now instead of when the HG goes.... from my understanding you are not suppose to cover the HG with any sealant. The factory runs a very, very small bead around the outer edge of the block (not sure about the head) about 1 cm from the edge. If you applied more then that I'd be worried.
Was the cam shaft installed when it was raining?
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#9
by
Darkness_is_spreading
on 25 Nov, 2006 06:57
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put in a 1.9 metal head gasket.....
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#10
by
jtanguay
on 25 Nov, 2006 22:48
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yea do the metal hg while u pull the head off and examine the bores for any kind of rust... maybe oil them up a bit too?
if you have an engine stand put the motor on it and get a heater. is the engine full of oil? if so drain oil and pull pan... then leave that under the heater for a bit. should suffice
i kinda doubt too much moisture got into the oil, but even small amounts can turn to metal eating acid
after about an hour under the heater put the pan back on and put in fresh oil and turn the pump with a drill and move the crank a bit to get things moving again. any small movement with no load should be good enough to work any moisture loose. probably overkill though... but why take the chance?
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#11
by
GomerPile
on 26 Nov, 2006 22:57
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I only used the copper stuff on the advice of the engine builder. I've read other threads on here reccomending upgrading the the metal 1.9 head gaskets. Do they also come in different sizes of thickness that correspond to 1, 2, or 3 notch 1.6 gaskets? I forget the one I used but could check when I pull it. No oil in the engine yet to drain...
Thanks again for all of the guidance...
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#12
by
Toolbox
on 27 Nov, 2006 16:51
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Just take the oil pan off and access the damage from there. Don't go pulling off the head when you can get a better accessment from the bottom.
Also you won't have nearly the amount of rust that you had on the resurfaced flywheel. Keep in mind that is a raw metal part that has seen no amount of oil. Your cylinder walls are oiled. Even weeks or months after sitting there is still residual amounts left over. And oil is a rust inhibiter so it will take care of itsself. Taking the engine completely apart to check it is overkill and a little obsessive compulsive.
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#13
by
burn_your_money
on 09 Dec, 2006 19:10
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Any updates?
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#14
by
GomerPile
on 09 Dec, 2006 23:21
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Hey there, I'm just wrapping up messing around with the engine after a couple busy weeks.
Planned on timing everything today and pouring some oil through it while turning by hand and was starting to go that way, but ended up pulling the head off...
...mixed up by an extra timing mark on my flywheel and then after reading on here about a guy who installed his flywheel 60 degrees off I finally decided to just pull the head off and make sure I knew what the hell what was going on!
Good thing I did becasue there was some rust on the #1 cylinder wall. To remedy I went for the approach suggested by my girlfriend's brother who races big ass domestic cars (don't know what class or whatever, but they look just like the nascar ones) and that was to knock down the rust with a scotch brite scrubby, some wd40 and then I used a little 800grit wet/dry sandpaper lightly by hand to finish. Same thing on the mating surfaces too. I squirted a bunch more wd40 while turning it slowly (turned real easy) by hand to try and rinse out any guck between the top ring below the top of the piston. I think it's pretty good :wink:
Tomorrow I'll have to pick up new head bolts and gasket before getting it all timed. Should I really go with a 1.9? Read a bit and not sure I want to mess around with filling unused holes, or drilling new ports to the water jackets... Gotta get a tap or something to get a hold of a clutch pushrod bushing that's being a real pita too!