'82 caddy Deisel starts but only runs breifly - page 1 - Troubleshooting - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• '82 caddy Deisel starts but only runs breifly by Mike D. on 06 Nov, 2006 18:11
• I had numerous electrical issues with this project and got some very good help with it here so here I am again. All the electrical problems are fixed and I've gotten it to run three times, but only for a couple seconds and then it dies. I bled out the injector pump to injector lines and was only able to get fuel out of three of them. The fourth one doesn't even have fuel coming out the fuel port at the pump. Do you think it would help to rig the intake line to a container of ATF and disconnect the injector lines and run them into the same container and then turn the engine over to circulate the ATF through the pump in an attempt to clean out the pump trying to break loose whatever is not working inside? I'm very new to diesels and it seemed like it was worth trying, but I don't want to hurt the thing so I'm seeking more experienced council.
• #1 by burn_your_money on 06 Nov, 2006 18:19
• Do you have alot of air in the lines? I had a similar problem and it was just excessive air. After enough cranking it cleared itself and then it ran fine. How long did you crack the fuel line that isn't getting fuel open for?
• #2 by Mike D. on 06 Nov, 2006 18:37
• Nice to hear from you again. I cranked the thing 'till the battery died, charged it up again, and then disconnected that line from the pump to see if I was even getting fuel out of the pump and I wasn't.
• #3 by RabbitJockey on 06 Nov, 2006 18:50
• check all the banjo fittings and all the rubber lines and all that ish, had the same thing on my rabbit.
• #4 by Mike D. on 06 Nov, 2006 19:01
• Thanks Trev0rbr. So what did it turn out to be on yours and what do you mean by banjo fittings? I did find a broken rubber line before I got it to start at all and replacing it got it to start briefly. I've replaced the fuel filter and filled it with ATF. I replaced the rigid lines from the injector pump to the injectors because they were leaking and I discovered the injector pump issue in the process of bleeding the air out of them.
• #5 by Mike D. on 08 Nov, 2006 22:37
• THE MUMMY LIVES!!  I got it running today. It ran about ten minutes until I shut it off to change the oil and filter and bleed the brakes. I have to confess, I cheated. I gave it a little squirt of starter fluid, held it to the floor, and it reluctantly lit. It sounded awful at first, but cleared out and ran surprisingly well after a couple minutes. It smokes like mad, but I guess I would too if I hadn't gotten out of bed in that long. I'll start it again tomorrow and let it get good and warm to see if it'll clear out. I cranked it a lot trying to get it running and I think I got raw fuel in the exhaust that it may be burning off. That's why I'm changing the oil also. Will the ATF also contribute to all the smoke? as soon as I can get it to them, there is a VW shop near me who specializes in these older diesels and I'm taking it to them to change the timing belt and adjust everything. It's been a long journey, but it looks like I'm about there.
• #6 by burn_your_money on 09 Nov, 2006 14:59
• ATF shouldn't contribute to smoke. What color is it?
  
  Do the work yourself, it's pretty simple. I'm more afraid to do brake work then I am to change a timing belt :lol:
  
  Adjusting the pump might prove difficult though, but it might not even be the pump.
• #7 by Mike D. on 09 Nov, 2006 16:10
• The reason I want to take it to a shop is tools. I don't want to buy them right now and also, the shop owner drives one of these himself and is very familiar with them. I'd like an experienced eye to take a look at it to see if there's anything missing or misinstalled that my inexperienced eye wouldn't recognize. This guy has been very helpful and not even remotely stingy or reluctant with information so I want to spend or "burn" some money with him. All Gods chillin' gotta eat and fair's fair. I asked him yesterday about the smoke and he seemed to think it may be injector timing or perhaps raw fuel in the exhaust system from all the cranking. He also said the ATF was a good idea and shouldn't contribute to the smoke.
• #8 by Mike D. on 10 Nov, 2006 15:38
• I'm making progress. It runs now but has another symptom. I have a theory my inexperienced diesel mind came up with that I want to run by some experienced diesel minds. Last night I got it to run for about ten minutes or so and then it just quit and wouldn't start again. I noticed the fan was running and didn't seem interested in shutting off so I poked around and discovered the upper hose was hot, the lower hose was cold, the overflow tank was cold, and the valve cover was only slightly more than warm to the touch. Thermostat.  Today I changed the thermostat and fired it up again. This time it started and this time everything got hot so the thermostat theory panned out. But, after about ten minutes or so, it quit again and wouldn't start again. It dawned on me that each time it quits on it's own, there isn't enough in the battery to crank it much in an effort to start it again so I've been charging it overnight and it'll run the next day for about ten minutes or so. I looked in the book and it said the fuel shut off solenoid is a magnetic switch. I haven't checked the charging system yet, but, just for the sake of argument, does it sound reasonable to suspect that, if the thing is running straight off the battery, as soon as the battery is sufficiently depleted, there isn't enough to hold that magnetic switch open, it closes, and the thing shuts off? Go easy on me now, this is my first diesel.
• #9 by Mike D. on 10 Nov, 2006 17:51
• New development. I just went out to try to start it again to test my theory. I've had it on a charger for a while and the battery is back up. I hit the starter and all the dash lights went out and that was it, no turn over. I turned the head lights on and they were nice and bright until I hit the starter when they went out. As soon as I let off the starter they come back on bright. When I got the truck, the starter was laying on the floor so I put it back in to see if it'd work and it did. Is it possible the starter has a dead short and is draining the battery as the thing is running? I still haven't checked the charging system and won't be able to until I fix the starter issue unless I remove the alternator and take it to a shop for remote testing.
• #10 by burn_your_money on 10 Nov, 2006 18:26
• The stop solenoid that you speak of uses very, very little power. In my Jetta the dash lights don't even light up because my battery is so dead but it keeps running.
  
  If you have a multimeter with an amps setting, with the car off remove the + battery cable. Hook the multimeter up in series with the battery and the battery cable. The amperage draw should be very minimal, especially if you don't have a stereo. If it is reading high (say over 1-2 amps) hook the battery cable back up. Then go into the fusebox and remove 1 fuse. Hook the multimeter back up in series where the fuse was. Note the draw. Keep doing this until you find the circuit that is causing the excessive draw. There are some circuits that don't go through the fusebox, for example the starter. You can remove the + wire from the starter and hook your meter up in the same fashion to see if it is drawing.
  
  Most likely your charging system isn't working propery (very easy to check) With the car running put your multimeter on V and hook it up to the  battery. Rev your engine and you should see the voltage climb to 14-16V. If it goes higher then 16V your voltage regulator is shot, if the voltage doesn't increase there are a whole bunch of possibilities.
  
  Another possibility is the starter is bad and is drawing too many amps from the battery. I had a starter like that. It would actually crank the engine over but it wasn't fast enough to start it.
  
  It could also be a bad connection. Clean them all up and run a thick wire from one of the starter bolts to the - wire that is attatched to the top of the tranny mount. While you are at it connect another wire from that tranny mount to the block. This can help reduce the amount of time the glow plugs are on, etc.
• #11 by Doug on 10 Nov, 2006 18:59
• Chances are if the battery is good enough to get the headlights working then it is okay. I would suspect that you may have a poor battery connection that goes high resistance when you call for more current like starting. Clean and retorque all the electrical connections.
• #12 by Mike D. on 23 Nov, 2006 21:55
• Found a good starter in a wrecking yard along with lots of odds and ends I was missing. The starter works great and I can now start the thing, but have the same issue. It'll run a few minutes and then dies and won't re-start 'till the next day. It acts as if it's starving for fuel. I've already replaced the fuel filter mounted on the passenger side strut tower. Is there another filter I've missed that may be clogged?
• #13 by LeeG on 23 Nov, 2006 22:13
• There may be a check valve back by tank and a water separator under car, I'm not sure what the '82s had though.
  
  After it dies, is there still 12V at the stop solinoid?  if there is,  try cracking open a couple injector lines and cranking it, is there any fuel coming out?
  If not, is there a water drain under filter and does it hiss if you open it after car dies?  
  
  Try running it from a can  of clean diesel to see if the problem goes away, or put a vacum gauge on a T between pump and filter.
• #14 by burn_your_money on 23 Nov, 2006 23:09
• Quote

  
  Try running it from a can  of clean diesel to see if the problem goes away, or put a vacum gauge on a T between pump and filter.

  
  
  Good idea, the pickup may be picking up crud from the tank and then clogging in the mesh in the pickup. Then after a day it resettles in the tank so it can be started again