Why not to use ether?

[zyewdall]

So, I know that everyone says to never use ether on a diesel engine.  But, I've never heard a good explanation why.    Since only one glow plug works on my 1.6 diesel right now, and its such a PITA to replace the two behind the injection pump, I have been using ether to start it.  My glow plugs are on a manual switch, so I make sure to keep them off through the whole process if I'm going to use ether.  With a half second squirt of ether it starts immediately and runs nice and smooth, and no white smoke.  If I try to use the one glow plug, it'll run on one cylinder at about 200 rpm shaking like crazy for a good 10 or 15 seconds before the second cylinder kicks in, then finally the third and fourth after a minute, and by then the whole parking lot is shrowded in white smoke.  What damage might I be doing with the ether?   It says it's okay for use in diesel engines and I know that my dad's 1953 bulldozer actually came with a factory ether injection kit to start it in the cold since it doesn't have glow plugs (it's also a direction injection instead of indirect injection).

[Kudagra]

Ive seen ether blow the rings apart and blow off chunks of the pistons. Usually both. And it usually f-s up the actual working glow plugs.

[Giles@PerformanceDiesel]

hi

ether will cause big engine damadge. i've seen bent con rods from it
and holes in pistons.

it is major pre-detonation for a diesel engine.

Giles

[RabbitJockey]

my dad shot too much in his td one winter, and when it finally started there was no stopping it.  he put new rings in it and his old head was cracked so he put a new one with a valve job and stuff, but this car runs really good now

[jtanguay]

if you really needed to, couldn't you spray just small amounts to 'assist' starting in a worst case scenario???  or is a small amount even worse?  I know for gasoline engines that'll fire them up real quick  :twisted:

but i guess if the detonation happens while the engine is on its compression stroke (with big enough explosion...), the rods would be rocked.

[Dr. Diesel]

changing those plugs really isn't that bad. Use a ratcheting box end wrench (if you can get one that small) or just the old fashioned wrench way to remove the small nuts. I find once you get them loose, it's faster to spin them with the tip of a screwdriver and grab them with a magnet. Same with the plugs. 12mm ratcheting wrench to loosen, and add friction with a screwdriver when they're too loose for the wrench pawls to ratchet. then extract with a magnet. Again, with the magnet, insert new plug, and push  the plug into place with a screwdriver tip. With another screwdriver, poke the plug clockwise until the threads  catch. Not crossthread!! then slip the gearwrench over the plug, use the screwdriver tip for friction and turn it back in.  put the small nut in place with a small diameter telescoping magnet, hold it against the threads with a screwdriver, remove magnet and poke it clockwise with another screwdriver until it's threads catch. Then wrench it on. (not too tight)
with a little manual dexterity, shouldn't take much more than a half hour for a complete plug change.

[macsdub]

if you do try ether just disconnect the glow plugs first
that is what we used to do with junk at work
but i still done recommend doing it

[LeeG]

The one time I tried it on my VW it wasnt nice.  I gave it a very brief shot before turning key, then went straight to cranking so the glowplugs didnt have a chance to heat.  It banged and rattled, bucked backwards.  It was clear that the TD would not put up with that.

The cans have enough warnings on them, the manufacturers know the dangers.  Wonderful stuff for waking up old tractors and what not though.

[macsdub]

yea vw idi engines dont like ether
sometimes you need 2 people to do an ether shot
one person gets it craqnking,then the other gives it a snort at the air filter
if not sometimes it can get a big load in the intake and cause an "ether lock" which is a little like a hydrolock
very ugly
i bet tdi's dont like it either
i have an open k+n air filter on my tdi-m
and one day while it was idling i wanted to touch up the paint around/near the air filter
it apparently doesnt like paint fumes either ,cause it sucked that in at idle+got a little cackly+the idle jumped up to 1000 or so
like a mild runaway

[Slave2School]

I've heard wd-40 is much easier on things if you need a starting aid in a pinch.  Anyone tried it?

[SMOKEYDUB]

when i first started out being a diesel enthusiest i was at the drag track with a tired td  (ran 24 sec 1/4 mile) and i had a huge full can of either. so i emptied the washer fluid container' dried it out emptied the whole bottle of either into the washer bottle then ripped of my squirter lines and ran them into the into the intake. first run i bring it up to 3000 pull the washer handle and it pulls hard for less then a second and then the engine locked solid and i almost ate the steering wheel :shock: . so i finally got it runnning in the pits it ran fine so i revved it to like 5000 and it sucked a bunch of either into it and locked at 5k and never started again :lol:

thats my either experience and a fun one to

[LeeG]

I tried WD-40, it didnt really seem to do anything.

Playing a propane torch on the intake manifold helped a bit, but that was pretty tedious.  

One of those diesel fired coolant heaters that you can connect into the heater hose would be the ticket.  Big trucks have them to keep engine and cab warm.  Little big for a VW though and probably worth more than my car.

[jtanguay]

I've heard wd-40 is much easier on things if you need a starting aid in a pinch.  Anyone tried it?

that stuff is pretty great... problem is that it breaks down oil, and breaksdown seals etc.  i guess small amounts would be ok though.

I remember the cold winter we had 2 years ago.  it was -32C  :shock: yes very cold!  engine would barely turn over.  I had my buddy crank, while I shot it with some ether.  I didn't use very much at all...  It tried to start... it huffed and puffed... but no go still

it didn't huff and puff at all without the ether or 'quickstart'.

only time i recommend it is in emergency situations.. and even then ... its iffy.  definitely get the buddy system, and very short sprays and wait for a huff or puff from the intake.

i tried it on my old '87 golf gasser...  that thing huffed and puffed out the intake right away lol.. so funny!  wouldnt start otherwise... bad fuel pump or something ... thats when i switched to diesel!

btw my plan is to get a marine battery in my trunk.. and run an inverter to power a coolant heater.   i got my marine battery already and its big and great.. can even power a microwave or power tools    hehehe

the zerostart coolant heater gets really hot coolant in about 2-3 minutes.  1500 watt version  

[Slave2School]

No to derail this to much, but are you just oging to hook the marine battery up in parallel to th emain battery or is it going to be isolated for just the coolant heater and charged as needed?

[QuickTD]

btw my plan is to get a marine battery in my trunk.. and run an inverter to power a coolant heater. i got my marine battery already and its big and great.. can even power a microwave or power tools  hehehe

the zerostart coolant heater gets really hot coolant in about 2-3 minutes. 1500 watt version

A 1500 watt coolant heater will draw about 150 amps at 12volts. I'd give the battery about 10-15 minutes of use before it was stone dead, much less in cold weather as battery capacity is only about 50% at 0ºC. You don't want to kill the battery completely or it will be severely damaged so you'll have to limit yourself to a few minutes.

 I don't think that the inverter would even start up with a 1500 watt load with only one marine battery connected. Usually a 2000-2500 watt inverter requires an 8D truck battery and very heavy cables (minimum 1/0) to operate at full capacity.