Franken Build, Need Parts Help 1y and 1.6TD Mixup

[vwpieces]

I have been running 1.6L TD's in a MK1 for 20+ years and know those pretty well. Also have Spare Parts.
A few months ago a 1Y short block came my way. Nice condition too. I want to use "what I have" if at all possible.
How much Taller is the 1Y compared to the 1.6TD? and am I correct in thinking the height difference is all above the IP mounting bracket holes on block?

Only 1.6 hydraulic head in the hoard is not great to say the least. It is flat but the usual cracks between seats. And there are hairline cracks in the prechambers. And the cam has pits starting on 4 lobes. Exhaust valves are Real Hard to find in USA, But I dug deep and found Int and Exh valves. Did New guides and cut the seats, I already had a new set of the INA 034****** lifters... just need a cam. Finding an 068109101L cam in USA, good used or New has eluded me. I have taken some basic measurements, comparing an 068109101W solid to the L and other than slight ramp difference, W is very slightly flatter as it approaches the lobe tip. I ALSO see PartsPlaceInc selling One cam for solid and Hydraulic heads... The cheepAss in me wants to just put the W in the Hyd Head.

As for a cam, I did see Cascade German has a cam they say will work on a 1.6L It is the 028109101F, 028109101C, 028109101G, Stock Eurospec camshaft for all VW TD AAZ and TDI 1Z/AHU engine codes.
Note: On AAZ's you will need 1Z/AHU valves and spring.
Fits the following:
1996-1998 Jetta, Passat, Golf TDI
1993-1996 Jetta, Passat, Golf TD (AAZ)
Also fits 1.6L TD - read on TDIclub and VWdieselparts on how these work in 1.6L engines! You would want to get our hydraulic lifters to go with it too!
As quoted from the ebay listing.
So is this a drop in cam for the 1.6 hydraulic head? I searched all those part numbers on this site and nothing 1.6 head related.

Or should I just give up on a Cam for the 1.6 and buy a complete Chinese AAZ Head off eBay for $260 to $320

Other parts I have and would want to use if possible
1.6TD pump with LDA
Have a spare set of 1.6 TD 155bar injectors I have new nozzles in and pop tested.
I think the 1.6 TD injector hard lines are a possibility? or AAZ?
Conti timing belt 028109119P
068 head bolts and timing belt tensioner I already have and I think are correct to use.
Piston protrusion is 0.9144mm and I believe that is 2 Notch, 028103383BKJ,  ELRING 914856
Using the 068 cam gear, pump gear OK? Crank timing gear is the one from the 1Y.
Pretty sure None of my timing belt covers will work and I have some MK1&2 types on hand.
I should be covered for clutch/flywheel in 200 or 210 if I want to go there.
Misc gaskets and seals I should have, but oil filter housing to block I might not have, with the offset top hole.

I know a couple guys from vortex will recognize me.
Thank you in advance.

[fatmobile]

Yeah, I know ya, we go back a ways. I'll try to help.
 So the 1Y is the NA (non-turbo) version of the AAZ right?
 Both are IDI?
I'm not sure how much taller the 1.9 is.
 I've heard it's the block that is taller so you might be right about everything above the injection pump mounting bracket being taller.
So I don't think the injector lines from the 1.6 will work. Lots of bending and they don't bend easy or like it.
Someone on here recently bought a set of 1.9 injector lines that they were real happy with.
But I can't think who or which post.

 I'm going in the opposite direction.
 A friend had his AAZ throw a rod though the block on his MK2 jetta and I'm putting one of my old 1.6TD engines in it's place.
 I can't image the head surviving that and still being in good shape.

I was thinking a mechanical head will fit on a hydraulic block.
But not if you are putting it on a 1.9.
 The head gasket holes for a mechanical head are too small for the pistons.

So Cascade German says their cam will work on anything 1.9 including AHU TDI engines?
 That kind of makes sense since they are all 1.9 engines.
 I have heard the cams on the hydraulic heads were made of a metal that was too soft or not tempered right and it is common to find the lobes worn.
I'm not sure how the timing curve for the 1.6 pump will work with the 1.9.
 You could probably swap the timing piston springs and washers from one pump to the other and get close to the same timing curve.
Oh that's right your engine didn't come with the pump.
If it gets clacky at higher RPMs you could put another washer in or find the proper spring size somehow.

Slight cracks in the prechambers can be scary they don't worry me as much as cracks in the head around the prechambers.
The 1.6 hydraulic head has way smaller prechambers so the compression will be high with a 1.6 in a 1.9.
Several people have swapped 1.9 heads onto the old 1.6 blocks and the compression was so low it wouldn't start on a cold day.
I pulled a 1.9 prechamber once and it was at least twice the size/volume. Maybe triple. I could fit my finger in it quite a ways
So I'm not sure just a cam is the solution. Not sure what that high of compression would do to a 1.9D.

The expensive way to go:
https://tornau-motoren.de/en/e/EF/cylinder-heads/cylinder-head-complete?make=VW&model=GOLF%20III%20(1H1)&motorType=1.9%20D&carId=1866&powerKw=47&ccmTech=1896&yearOfConstrFrom=199111&yearOfConstrTo=199708
 Didn't know AMC is still making heads.

I think the 1.6 cam sprocket and injectors will work.
Did the crank sprocket on the 1Y have the flat spot type keyway or the old 8mm wedge like the AAZ?
 That was a trouble spot for the AAZ.
 Pretty easy to upgrade to the flat spot and later TDI sprocket. I had a special tool made to broach it while the crank is still in place.

 It will be interesting to see how the timing belt covers work out.
 I can check with the guy and see how much of the AAZ parts he wants to sell or trade for 1.6 parts.
I'm a little short on 1.6 timing covers and am curious if the lower one is the same as the AAZ.

[fatmobile]

Looks like the 1.9 lines came from brickworks:
https://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,47169.0.html

[VWSmokr]

Not trying to knock the OP's topic astray, but fatmobile... your statement, "Pretty easy to upgrade to the flat spot and later TDI sprocket." has even broader interest for any who do not wish to re-experience the 'mangled keyway' saga on another engine... EVER!  So, 1) What is the correct part # for the "later TDI sprocket"?  2) Will it fit an IDI 1.6n.a. / 1.6td crank? and  3) Can most automotive machine shops accurately broach/machine a 1.6L crank to fit such a sprocket?

[fatmobile]

 I believe it had a D on the end of the part number. I remember because it is D-shaped.
 But that might have gotten superceded with an E sprocket.
It's the sprocket for the AHU engine and does fit the 1.6.

I'm not sure how many shops can put the proper flat spot on the end of the crank, if the crank is off the engine.
 I had a shop try and made it too sloppy for my liking.
 So I had a fixture made that would hold the broach steady and cuts it to the perfect depth.
 you actually kinda have to tap the sprocket on.
It works with the engine still in the car.
Just lent it to my friend in MPLS he used it unsupervised and it worked great for him.
 I've thought about renting it out, but I'd need at least a $500 deposit (I'm not sure I could get another perfect one made for that much) and $50 for the rental.



crankkeywaycutter_2 by vwfatmobile, on Flickr

[VWSmokr]

Thanks for the info, fatmobile. Would that be #06A 105 209 D (or, now... "E")? May have found a pic of a sprocket with that stamping. Crank is not in the engine yet, so will buy a pulley & see what some local machine shop friends think about their own accuracy on this. The broaching location on the crank seems non-specific, other than avoiding the oem keyway slot... right? Will be glad to work around the earlier keyway design that has cost a couple of engines.

[fatmobile]

Right, you can put it anywhere around the nose of the crank.
 Usually the crank sprocket bump will be at 7:30 when the engine is at TDC. That will change.
 I once got a free MK2 Jetta because of the crank issue.
I'm not much help with the part number.
 Oh wait,.. the crank sprocket # on the AHU project is 028 105 263 D.

[RabbitJockey]

hey Nick hows it going? We spoke last year at volksfest and then you sold me the bracket for a mk1 1.6td air box.

the height difference is above the pump bracket, im not sure exactly what it is but its the same difference as a 1.8 jh vs an aba engine, and also the same deck height as a tdi.

you can run the 1.6 injectors, pump bracket, and pump. 1.6td or aaz lines could work but they will both need to be bent because the 1.6 lines are too short and the aaz lines are too tall because they had the taller 2 stage injectors, unless you can find the uncommon early aaz lines for single stage injectors but keep in mind some pumps had longer delivery valves.

i have some aaz stuff left over from my last engine, like an upper timing belt cover thats already trimmed for a mk1

[vwpieces]

Have not received any notifications. Changed to my gmail and did not receive notification of last reply.
Also needed to get image hosting figured out again. 

Can anyone confirm that this is a piston from a 1Y engine? I have spent a lot of time searching and get no other similar pistons. I can not see how this dish can allow a diesel to run.


They are VW DE but no identifing marks that suggest a part number. 24mm pins and 79.5mm "ish" diameter.
They Are factory notched for the oil squirters too.
These also match up with diesel protrusion, should be 2 notch gasket. IIRC it was 0.9144mm... from memory, Old memory.
Pistons are like new, rings barely worn. I see no skirt wear.
This short block has very little miles but there is evidence these pistons indeed were run on diesel.

[vwpieces]

AAAND Monster Image FAIL
Sorry... Fixed it.



Learning all over again.

Craig, message sent but messing with the pic in here. Resizing tricks....

[vwpieces]

Things have been moving along but hitting walls.
Latest and #1 wall, is the pistons in previous reply.

Also moved past the 1.6: hyd head and Splurged for a Chinese head off ebay. Actually made an "offer" late night and damn it... it was accepted. $255 shipped on an Complete 1.9L AAZ chinese head.
I did have to spend 2 hours deburring all the flashing machining smear. Complete disassembly, quick lap on a few valves for sanity and they actually looked good. Guide fit and all.
Just cant leave things alone and Had to clean up the ports and bowls. Damn tiny exhaust ports compared to the 1.6L heads, yet bigger intake valves. Cam made me cringe with the very sharp edges on lobes. I did file them to prevent chipping but opted to buy a New cam I linked in first post, from Cascade German. Very nice! Also had a New set of INA 034 lifters in the hoard and used those to complete the head.

First pics of the Chinesium, honestly I wasn't disappointed.




BURRZZ everywhere





This was a joke sent to a couple friends.
A Day at the HyKolity Masheen Schop. Flo Bhench testin.
Cant say it is accurate but it did show the ported intake about one red floater thing higher than stock bowl.


Some bowl work.



Cam arrived today and installed.

[vwpieces]

Pics of the rod from the 1Y block and weird piston. Cause I know you want to see Rod pics.
It looks like it should be rifle drilled but it's not. Rod caps have 028J on them.
Bushings and bearings look new.
Ordered a set of 45mm rod bolts from AutohausAZ for 3bux ea.
028105425N or ends in C, same, same
Anyone know the rod bolt torque spec off hand?





Not going to bother taking crank out.

[vwpieces]

I took off oil pump and saw this.


It did turn over by hand and didn't feel anything before removing pump. Put it back to see, and here are pics.


this is an 049 pump that was in there


I have a good VW 026 pump and it clears rod bump. Bigger gears too.


clears

[vwpieces]

I think I figured out the pistons.
They certainly are the ones that came in this engine.
Someone Cut the dish into them. Why? My only conclusion is they were going to run crazy boost.

If you stare at the pic, and imagine the 2 circle pattern on top of all IDI pistons. The 2 outer notches and the top part are all that is left.



I Need 1Y pistons.
Standard bore, 79.5mm

[fatmobile]

 That seems like a great price on a new head and it sounds like the quality isn't too bad.
Maybe they were going to run a 1.6 head on this block so they machined the pistons,
 to lower the compression because of the smaller prechambers.
I'm going to dig through my hoard and see what I have for timing belt covers for the MK2 I'm working on.
 Sounds like you have someone local with a 1.9 upper cover, your lower cover might be the same as a 1.9.
 I'll check if I have a MK2, 1.6 lower timing belt cover to compare it to.
That would leave you just needing the 1.9 tin cover.

You going to put a turbo on it?