Cranks But wont fire LR IP

[jhax]

Good Morning Community,

I am seeking some advice. I have built an AHU with a LR injection pump to install in my T3. When I crank it it will crank but not fire. If I turn the max fuel screw cranking speed increases but obviously a black plume emanates from the tail pipe but it wont fire. I also have .205 nozzles installed.

I have the pump timed to what I assume is where it should be, the only thing I can think of is that when the pump was reassembled that the cam was installed out of time?



Okay here is the sequence. I start where I believe is the peak of #4 to peak #1.

Peak of 4.





Beginning valley of 4 to 1




End of valley from 4 to 1




This is where I would get measure and set static timing at 1.35? 1.4? 1.54? Based on the nozzles






Peak of #1
The keyway snaps past the timing pin hole at this point




I would really like to get this thing running today.

Thank you,
Justin

[ORCoaster]

I thought you had this pump installed on the car and were timing it.  Putting it in a vise and turning it with a pulley or whatever really doesn't make much sense if the pump is not in the correct engine configuration.  Bolt that sucker in place and try timing it that way.  Line up the keyway at that position, have the cam locked in place, and have the crank at TDC.  That should get you going.

 

[jhax]

I guess I am struggling to see the difference between achieving static timing and installing the ALH hub on the bench vs on the vehicle. Unless you are saying that the timing will change after the sprocket is installed. But if the sprocket is loosely bolted on there, then the timing pin inserted into the TDC slot, timing belt tensioned, then the pin would keep the pump in the same 1.XXmm of lift on the cam as it was when you installed the hub?

[ORCoaster]

I guess I see the pump in the vice as a way of measuring the lift of the cams and that is about it.

In order to set the timing you have to have the pump in place on the engine with the timing belt on it.  Once you have the cam plate to keep the cams at TDC with the #1 cylinder at the proper position then you lock the IP in the proper position, keyway to 10 o'clock position as you have shown.  Once the crank is rotated so you have it at TDC on the #1 cylinder you are set to put the timing belt on and tension it up. 

Now if the cams and crank are not close to start with, you will have trouble getting them in place but it can be done.
Please tell me that you have not messed with those individually and will be smacking the valves on the pistons trying to turn the crank to TDC. 

If all the individual parts, cam, crank, and IP are held in their respective places the belt goes on much easier if the cam pulley is free to rotate on its own, it should be loose.  That allows you to tension up the crank against the IP and the slack is taken up on the backside.  It keeps the cam in place and puts the proper tight to the belt.

Once that is done you do the backwards rotation of the pump till you zero out the dial gauge you install in the back prior to backing it up.  Push the dial gauge in a bit to get it to show you between one hundred and one hundred fifty on the gauge.  This is the preset you may have read about.  It allows you to see when the needle stops moving the engine backwards.

OK, you rotated the pump and the dial needle is not moving anymore.  Twist the outside indicator on the dial to the zero reading and start to rotate the pump forward.  As you come up on 100 mm stop and look at the TDC mark on the flywheel.  Are you close or did you go past it?  This is best done with two people but if you don't have a second set of eyes on it you will just have to adjust one way or the other and keep checking on it.

Once at TDC on the flywheel you read the dial gauge.  Is it 1.04 or 1.25 or .85? 

Now is the pump adjustment time.  Time to time it.  I loosen all the bolts on the bottom, back and the one from the front through the pulley.  It is the only time you can get to it with a socket.  13 mm.  That leaves the one near the radiator left tight.  I loosen it slowly and push the pump towards the engine to get a higher reading on the dial, this is advanced on the pump.  If the dial reading is too high, I pull the pump towards me a bit and watch the dial till I get it to the number I want.  Now tighten that front most bolt on the IP. 

Pull the cam lock and the IP lock as it is the moment of truth.  Rotate the engine at the crank bolt but go easy on it for starters.   If the piston is going to hit the valve you will feel it within the first one or two wrench pulls so go easy on them.  If the engine turns over then you are in luck.  Bring the lobes of the #1 cylinder to their upmost position and check the flywheel for TDC. 

What is your dial gauge reading?  Still where you want it?  Good, no need to adjust the adjustment. 

All this can't be done in the vice, at least I see no point in doing so.  You might figure out about how far the pulley will need to rotate to get to the 1.4 mm you want but it won't do any good for setting the timing of the engine.

Have a good time with all of this.  Once you get this process down and you do it a dozen times you will do it in five minutes. 

[jhax]

Thank you for the very detailed step by step instructions. I forgot to mention that I have a 2 piece ALH hub on this IP. When I was referring to setting the timing, I mean the static timing on the pump so I can get the keyway on the hub in the correct position and lock the hub. As indicated in this post https://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,46764.0.html but it seems that I still have to do the same procedure you mention above, with the exception of rotating the pump body, I am rotating the shaft back to the 1.XX position. I was just setting the 1.XX position on the pump and installing it, installing the pulley, installing the locking pin and tensioning it all up.

[fatmobile]

 It's been a while since I did this.
 But I did write it down in my build thread to help my memory.
https://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,46476.0.html

Down in post number 6.
" I locked the shaft at 1.4mm,.. my dial gauge isn't metric so I used .055".
Then cleaned and degreased the hub center and shaft before sticking them together with a nut."

[jhax]

I had it previously pinned on 1.4 and that is when these symptoms began. Maybe I wasnt at absolute TDC, I do have the metalnerd crank lock tool and was using it, but it did keep slipping out of place due to the orientation of the motor. But I also just bolted the pump to the motor, while locked in place, tentioned it all up, removed the locks and hand rotated. I didnt do any more adjustments with the pump, I didnt roll the motor back to BTDC and zero the dial indicator. Im wondering if that may have had to do with it?

[jhax]

Well I suspect that my timing is still off. I have been having issues staring my AHU mTDI in my T3. When you swap these motors in these vehicles at 50* and use a DMF you need to make a mark for TDC on the flywheel. I suspect my marks are off because when I took the crank timing sensor out while the notches on the flywheel were lined up with the bellhousing, I couldnt find the gap in the timing wheel. When I did turn the motor to where the gap was exposed, my cam still needs to rotate more CW to be at TDC. But before I try to fashion a tool that slides into the crank sensor hole and into the timing wheel gap, I want to be sure that where the gap is where TDC is. Is that the case?

Thank you,
Justin

[jhax]

We got a start and a run! Turns out my fuel screw was not in enough and my throttle lever position needed a bit more advancement. Thank you all for your help.

[fatmobile]

 Good to hear it.
 And an easy/cheap fix.
 I was going to suggest that might be the problem, ha.

[ORCoaster]

I knew it all along just forgot to say it.