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Better Brakes..is there a way to improve???
by
Peter
on 15 Aug, 2006 22:02
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is there a way to improve the brakeing abilities of my 86 jetta..on this rare occassion, I changed out both the master cyl and brake boost, also new pads/disc and shoes with new drums...but when comparing it to my 20 yr old subaru or my daughters very old toyota, you still have to press much harder on the vw
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#1
by
akrallysport
on 15 Aug, 2006 23:08
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first off... this should be in a different section, be it general chit-chat or non-engine upgrades.
To answer the question - you will require much more effort to press the pedal on a VW than a Japanese car (except mk4 or newer models). It's just a case of the degree of power assist on the brakes. I actually prefer VW brakes as they are easier to modulate and get the right braking for the situation. I actually believe that the power brakes on my 93 Subaru prevented me from avoiding my accident since the sudden power assist locked all the wheels, even trying to pump them. Meanwhile, yesterday, I avoided an accident with my Jetta because I was able to control it with perfect threshold braking and stop on a dime, even with puny non-vented rotors up front and worn drums in the rear.
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#2
by
anarchyx34
on 15 Aug, 2006 23:21
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I have to agree, I think the brakes on these cars suck too
. I'm wondering if a GLI master cyl and rear disc setup would improve things?
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#3
by
ssray
on 16 Aug, 2006 02:07
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yesterday and today i ran out of brakes on my seat toledo(mk 2 golf/jetta based) when i got to work i had smoke rising from the nearside(uk) brake pads,my journey to work is about 14-15miles and up to 100mph but not too twisty so not a lot of breaking but a few roundabouts with space in between them.
i need better brakes too please.
ray
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#4
by
vwmike
on 16 Aug, 2006 04:28
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I also have an '88 Jetta TD and when I got it the brakes were almost nonexistant due to a bad master cylinder. I beleive it was a 21mm but starting on the Scirocco 16v and carrying over into the MK3 Golf/Jetta they started using a 22mm master cylinder. It decreases the amount of pedal travel required to stop the car though it may reduce the resolution (for lack of a better word) in the brake pedal. This is a direct swap onto most if not all MK2's. Stock the car had 9.4" solid front rotors and rear drum brakes which can easily fade on the twisties. I replaced the front knuckles with those from a 2L MK3 and then used the 10.1" MK3 brakes. I also swapped on the rear disk brakes from a MK2 (The MK3 rear brakes should also work but you must use the MK2 e-brake cables). It stops much better now but in order to move up to the 10.1" brakes you must be running a 14" or larger wheel. If you want even more then the 11" G60 brakes will also bolt onto the MK3/Passat/G60 knuckles. The stock knuckles used with the 9.4" brakes are not upgradeable. I hope that helps you out a bit.
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#5
by
Peter
on 16 Aug, 2006 07:10
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this sounds similiar to what I have done with my older subarus(although much easier then what you have described)...did you have to exchange or do anything with the proportioning valve???and where can one to get info about the MK2/3......
I also have an '88 Jetta TD and when I got it the brakes were almost nonexistant due to a bad master cylinder. I beleive it was a 21mm but starting on the Scirocco 16v and carrying over into the MK3 Golf/Jetta they started using a 22mm master cylinder. It decreases the amount of pedal travel required to stop the car though it may reduce the resolution (for lack of a better word) in the brake pedal. This is a direct swap onto most if not all MK2's. Stock the car had 9.4" solid front rotors and rear drum brakes which can easily fade on the twisties. I replaced the front knuckles with those from a 2L MK3 and then used the 10.1" MK3 brakes. I also swapped on the rear disk brakes from a MK2 (The MK3 rear brakes should also work but you must use the MK2 e-brake cables). It stops much better now but in order to move up to the 10.1" brakes you must be running a 14" or larger wheel. If you want even more then the 11" G60 brakes will also bolt onto the MK3/Passat/G60 knuckles. The stock knuckles used with the 9.4" brakes are not upgradeable. I hope that helps you out a bit.
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#6
by
Black Smokin' Diesel
on 16 Aug, 2006 07:36
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The stock braking system on the mk2 is quite efficient (for a 20 year old design).
If you want something good and you're not willing to spend a ****load of cash, get some Brembo vented discs and a good set of pads. Bleed the brakes using ATE super blue fluid. Rebuild the calipers yourself or get a set of rebuild calipers and hoses (after 20 years, it might be a good idea).
It doesn't matter if you have drums or discs in the rear, you won't feel a difference in braking power. If you live in a cold area (northern US or canada), rear calipers have a tendency to seize due to corrosion. Drum will last as long as the car itself (I'm at 310K km on the original drum setup).
But remember that your brakes are only as good as your tires are.
I have the stock 9.4" setup with ATE vented discs and Mintex red box pads, they do an amazing job thanks to the Falken Azenis I'm rolling on.
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#7
by
BlackTieTD
on 16 Aug, 2006 11:56
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i agree with upgrading the parts and servicing the braking system... new fluid, good pads. if you have kelsey hayes calipers and solid rotors (9.4") you should be able to switch to vented rotors along with the correct thinner pad. i do this to all the mkIs. should help with fade.
i don't think it was mentioned to try stainless lines instead of rubber. they should firm up the pedal and little since the stainless wont expand under pressue like rubber.
the braking in a correctly-setup older VW (75-92) is phenomenal. i was out in my friends 91 16v GTI last week (stock brakes) and almost put us through the windshield while testing out the brakes :lol:
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#8
by
Peter
on 16 Aug, 2006 14:01
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everyone has been a big help here..keep up the good work..this should keep the wife happy
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#9
by
malone
on 16 Aug, 2006 15:12
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This thread is moved to the Upgrades (non engine related) forum.
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#10
by
moosiah
on 16 Aug, 2006 23:50
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Hi this topic was discused in one of the first posts to non engine upgrades , My bunnycar (a1-'81) uses 10.1 rotors from a audi 4000 , calipers from a sirocco2 , rear brake backing plates from a quantum w drums from a jetta 2 (200mm/40 vers stock 180mm/30). the rims are audi 4000gt rollas 14x6 w 185/75 14 potenzas(24in dia vers 22in stock) .......Springs are from a '83 cabrio. I used this combination because I tow a 14ft sailboat w the rabbit ( hence the nicname "frankenbunny") which looks funny because parts of the boat stick over the roof of the rabbit. AND all this stuff is available at my local picanpul yards around here ( norcal, bay area) I have a whole rear disk set , but didn't use it as the parking brake is !weak! :shock: and I work in SF as a stagehand and have to frequently park on steeeep streets, not to forget parking on boatramps to launch the sailboat .... glug glug........ I think that I should have used a 22mm master cy l too 'cause the brake pedal is a little squshy ( like too much power boost)
so thats my .02c
Look for " bigger brakes " post in this forum ,, 3 pages!!
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#11
by
hillfolk'r
on 17 Aug, 2006 00:47
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lol
you guys would be cryin on my 79 tdi-mrabbit that does lo mid 14s
and it has ,,,,,ta daa,,,no power assist
yea manual brakes
they work great
all i did was put on ate powerslots+metalmasters
they actually have a very nice feel to them
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#12
by
Black Smokin' Diesel
on 17 Aug, 2006 06:19
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the braking in a correctly-setup older VW (75-92) is phenomenal. i was out in my friends 91 16v GTI last week (stock brakes) and almost put us through the windshield while testing out the brakes :lol:
True, all thanks to good design and light weight cars
Anyone noticed how easy they are to control in emergency braking? Even under hard braking it's easy to move the wheel on my non power steering equipped MK2, quite impressive.
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#13
by
Peter
on 17 Aug, 2006 11:51
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Has anyone ever experienced having to push still harder on the brake pedal when installing / useing a pad with a higher amount of metal in the brake pad compound...I was reading an article on braking compounds and it had mentioned it without any explanation...didn't seem to make sense to me??
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#14
by
Black Smokin' Diesel
on 18 Aug, 2006 16:09
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I heard some people say that different pads did give different pedal feel. My guess is that it has more to do with heak soaking and fade than pad material itself.
It's all in the discs/pad combo. Some discs will litteraly eat thru a pad in very short time and vice-versa. A good combo (or so I have heard) is brembo discs and PBR ceramic pads. You can't go wrong with the brembo vented disc. It's also one of the only disc available cross drilled in which the holes are not "drilled" but cast, resulting in much higher resistance to cracks.