mTDI Passat b2 swap, your help is much appreciated - page 1 - mTDI Mechanical TDI Conversions - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• mTDI Passat b2 swap, your help is much appreciated by 33B on 09 Apr, 2023 15:47
• Right,
  
  So I've been preparing my car for a m-tdi swap by upgrading suspension, brakes and so on..
  It's a Passat '87 with a 1.6td mounted longitudinally, front suspension is completely out of an Audi 80 B4 (which came with 1Z). I'm looking at these 3 options 1Z, AHU or AFN. What are the pros and cons of each engine? The reason I'm looking at these three and not newer is because of an easier swap. Same block more or less (or am I wrong), my thought process is that im gonna use the same mounts for the engine.
  Would 1.6 manifolds fit, if yes would they be restricting airflow?
  Does 1.6 vacuum pump fit?
  Could my stock transmission and clutch work with the 1.9 for a while until i source a good Passat 5/audi a4 b5 transmission?
  
  And also what are my IP options? I've heard of 300TD LR pumps, kind of rare here. Could a 2.1L Renault diesel IP work for this application? This engine was used in 2000s Jeep Cherokee.
  
  Thanks
• #1 by libbydiesel on 14 Apr, 2023 17:47
• Quote from: 33B on 09 Apr, 2023 15:47

  What are the pros and cons of each engine?

  
  The longblocks are basically the same.  I believe the AHU/AFN pistons are a better design, but not enough of a difference to be concerned.  I'd get whichever is available for a decent price.
  
  

  Quote

  The reason I'm looking at these three and not newer is because of an easier swap. Same block more or less (or am I wrong), my thought process is that im gonna use the same mounts for the engine.

  
  1Z/AHU/AFN should bolt up in place of the 1.6TD.  One thing to keep in mind is that the 1.9 blocks are ~13mm taller than the 1.6 blocks and the difference is at the head gasket surface.  That difference can cause issues with the exhaust or intake fitting as both mount to the head and their mounting position would be changed by the block height difference.
   
  

  Quote

  Would 1.6 manifolds fit, if yes would they be restricting airflow?

  The exhaust manifold will fit fine.  The intake ports are a different shape between the 1.6 (oval) and 1.9 (D-shaped) engines.  The 1.6 intakes will mount up to the 1.9, but the port mismatch will cause excessive turbulence and hurt flow/performance.
  
  

  Quote

  Does 1.6 vacuum pump fit?

  The 1.6 and 1.9 pumps look similar but will NOT interchange!  There are several differences including the size of the hole in the block and size of the drive gear.
   
  

  Quote

  Could my stock transmission and clutch work with the 1.9 for a while until i source a good Passat 5/audi a4 b5 transmission?

  Yes, but treat it like it is made of glass or the torque of an mTDI will force the swap sooner than later. 
  
  

  Quote

  Could a 2.1L Renault diesel IP work for this application?

  I'm not familiar with that pump so can't really say.  If you post/link pics I could probably say more accurately. 
  
  The following criteria are needed for a direct swap mTDI pump:
  -from a direct injection engine that has a similar rpm range
  -triangular mounting flange at sprocket end of the pump case
  -clockwise rotation of sprocket/shaft
  -accelerator shaft/lever on the correct side of the pump and with the correct rotation direction
  
  Each of those criteria can usually be determined by looking at the exterior of the pump if you know what to look for.
• #2 by chi1337 on 14 Apr, 2023 18:37
• Considering that Renault pump, get it's number; for example the 1.6D has:
  
  0460 494 131 or
  0460 494 052
  
  etc etc
  
  the 6th number (9) is the plunger size. For mTDI you need at least 10 mm, the number would look like;
  
  0460 404 052  for 10mm plunger
  0460 414 052  for 11mm plunger
  0460 424 052  for 12mm plunger
  
• #3 by 33B on 15 Apr, 2023 15:23
• Quote from: libbydiesel on 14 Apr, 2023 17:47

  Quote from: 33B on 09 Apr, 2023 15:47

  What are the pros and cons of each engine?

  
  The longblocks are basically the same.  I believe the AHU/AFN pistons are a better design, but not enough of a difference to be concerned.  I'd get whichever is available for a decent price.
  
  

  Quote

  The reason I'm looking at these three and not newer is because of an easier swap. Same block more or less (or am I wrong), my thought process is that im gonna use the same mounts for the engine.

  
  1Z/AHU/AFN should bolt up in place of the 1.6TD.  One thing to keep in mind is that the 1.9 blocks are ~13mm taller than the 1.6 blocks and the difference is at the head gasket surface.  That difference can cause issues with the exhaust or intake fitting as both mount to the head and their mounting position would be changed by the block height difference.
   
  

  Quote

  Would 1.6 manifolds fit, if yes would they be restricting airflow?

  The exhaust manifold will fit fine.  The intake ports are a different shape between the 1.6 (oval) and 1.9 (D-shaped) engines.  The 1.6 intakes will mount up to the 1.9, but the port mismatch will cause excessive turbulence and hurt flow/performance.
  
  

  Quote

  Does 1.6 vacuum pump fit?

  The 1.6 and 1.9 pumps look similar but will NOT interchange!  There are several differences including the size of the hole in the block and size of the drive gear.
   
  

  Quote

  Could my stock transmission and clutch work with the 1.9 for a while until i source a good Passat 5/audi a4 b5 transmission?

  Yes, but treat it like it is made of glass or the torque of an mTDI will force the swap sooner than later. 
  
  

  Quote

  Could a 2.1L Renault diesel IP work for this application?

  I'm not familiar with that pump so can't really say.  If you post/link pics I could probably say more accurately. 
  
  The following criteria are needed for a direct swap mTDI pump:
  -from a direct injection engine that has a similar rpm range
  -triangular mounting flange at sprocket end of the pump case
  -clockwise rotation of sprocket/shaft
  -accelerator shaft/lever on the correct side of the pump and with the correct rotation direction
  
  Each of those criteria can usually be determined by looking at the exterior of the pump if you know what to look for.
  

  
  Thank you very much!!!
  
  

  Quote from: chi1337 on 14 Apr, 2023 18:37

  Considering that Renault pump, get it's number; for example the 1.6D has:
  
  0460 494 131 or
  0460 494 052
  
  etc etc
  
  the 6th number (9) is the plunger size. For mTDI you need at least 10 mm, the number would look like;
  
  0460 404 052  for 10mm plunger
  0460 414 052  for 11mm plunger
  0460 424 052  for 12mm plunger
  
  

  
  0 460 494 315
  
  So it cant work for this application. Pictures here https://www.megaparts.eu/en/product/1457593590
• #4 by 33B on 15 Apr, 2023 15:43
• Since ive posted this, i've found a 1.9 afn for 200bucks complete w/o ac compressor (bracket still there) and I have also found the 300td LR IP which is also 200bucks. What will I need to make this IP work with this engine (sprockets, brackets etc.)?
• #5 by 33B on 20 Apr, 2023 14:45
• Guys I bought an Audi A4 B5 1.9tdi afn for parts. I'm gonna pull the engine and trans and sell the rest. Next up is purchasing the LR pump. I'm gonna post regular updates as i proceed.
  
  
• #6 by fatmobile on 21 Apr, 2023 12:48
• What is the US equivalent of the AFN block?
• #7 by Dennis Froelich on 21 Apr, 2023 13:37
• 1Z or AHU is the U.S. version of that engine. Upgraded a bit though. AHU and AFN got better pistons over the 1Z.
• #8 by 33B on 26 Jul, 2023 11:57
• Late update on mTDI build.
  Finally managed to get some free time to pull the engine and trans from the audi (to be exact i pulled the car apart around the engine hehe), also LR 300 pump arrived today. I think I have everything to start building this thing.
  Pictures include the LR pump, the engine and the guinea pig I'm gonna operate on.
  
  https://imgtr.ee/image/lr.rgxob
  https://imgtr.ee/image/p.rgZO2
  https://imgtr.ee/image/mot.rg2Qh
  
  
  
  
  
  
• #9 by fatmobile on 28 Jul, 2023 00:09
•  Looks like the pump has a throttle position sensor and the stop solenoid isn't all covered in a plastic shield like one that I got.
   I'd rather see a side view of your passat than a picture of it on it's side, ha.
  
   That was a called a quantum over here right?
• #10 by 33B on 12 Aug, 2023 11:47
• Yes sir Quantum in the US. Hehe, I'll post next time with it not on it's side.
  
  I have mounted the LR pump. Bracket was widened for IP to fit. AFN IP sprocket swapped on LR IP. LR IP three holes for mounting onto the bracket widened with a hand file to the dimensions of AFN IP holes so it can be timed. Also rear bracket swapped over and AFN delivery valves.
  
  Tried starting it and it's trying but it's not timed right, maybe firing on one cylinder 
  Need help with timing this IP.  Specs etc..
  Is the timing mark on the AFN sprocket still accurate?
  
  For now i want it roughly timed so it can start. After that im gonna replace all the seals and belts. With a new timing belt im gonna precisely time it.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• #11 by 33B on 12 Aug, 2023 13:41
• Okay so found the post about timing. Key should be pointing at the #1 delivery valve. Did i get that right? What about timing advance, read some posts saying it should be 1.25 others saying 1mm?
  
• #12 by 33B on 13 Aug, 2023 15:17
• It's alive. Bad quality video, family member was recording me without my knowledge. But hey first start video.
  Before the recording started, it started and revved up on it's own. Most likely stuck internals of IP from sitting for too long. That's the reason i was not too keen on touching the throttle at first (ready to cover the intake with a block of wood).
  Rattling/grinding noise is from the cover plate thats situated behind sprockets, intermediate shaft sprocket grinding on the plate, also valve cover rattling since it isn't bolted down. 
  
  https://youtu.be/XOFQvvjPwl0
• #13 by fatmobile on 14 Aug, 2023 18:20
•  Nice to hear it suddenly start and run after all that cranking.
   
• #14 by ORCoaster on 14 Aug, 2023 21:40
• Good to hear that rev and sing.  Good job!!!