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Author Topic: Hello, first post and first 1.6TD troubleshooting questions  (Read 446 times)

October 28, 2019, 11:55:47 pm

Majorpardo

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Hello, first post and first 1.6TD troubleshooting questions
« on: October 28, 2019, 11:55:47 pm »
Hello from Majorpardo in Washington.  Iíve enjoyed reading threads for a couple evenings and am ready to dive in on my new project car a friend is giving me. I hope to get it running quickly as possible as Iím driving a gas guzzler 1 ton van. Itís a B3 Passat wagon, 1991, that originally was a gasser but changed to 1.6TD. He thinks the engine may have been from a Rabbit. From what Iím told it smokes heavily at cold start up. Grey/white smoke. Then clears up mostly when it warms up. I have not gotten it home yet. Iím wondering what to learn about before I go and what to take with me to work on it there?
 Here is the history I have heard so far: he says since it started smoking the injectors were checked and ok. Perhaps they were reinstalled incorrectly?
 He says the glow plugs are new.
 He says it that biodiesel was used.
 He says the previous owner went over the engine and possibly rebuilt it.
 Iíll ask him if anyone touched the IP. I gleaned from this website that air bubbles in the fuel line are something to look for? Maybe after reinstalling the injectors air is now allowed in?
  What should I check and in what order? What will I need to take with me ?
 The Passat has not been run in a year and has sat a couple years. I want to identify the engine and components. He said if I do a compression test to have some new injector seals on hand.
 Iím excited to learn about small diesels. Iíve gone through gas engines but never a diesel. Thanks in advance.
 

 
 



Reply #1October 29, 2019, 11:40:50 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Hello, first post and first 1.6TD troubleshooting questions
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2019, 11:40:50 pm »
I'm not sure what you're asking for.  Does the car run well enough to drive it home and work on it?  If so, then you probably don't need to bring much of anything other than your driver's license and maybe your AAA card.  If not, then you probably don't need to bring much of anything other than your driver's license and your AAA card.  :)

Once you get it to where you can dig into it a bit, I'd probably start with confirming that the glow plugs are getting current at the buss bar when the key is turned on at a cold start.  I would look for air in the clear line before the injection pump.  I would add a clear line after the pump.  If that all checks out, I would probably pull the injectors, do a compression check, and while the injectors are out, visually confirm that all four glow plugs glow brightly.  Checking and confirming injection pump and cam timing would be wise - for me that is a 'must do' item before putting a vw diesel into service.  If there is any age to the injection pump, then that would be good to do at the same time (also before putting it into service).  There are plenty of other things to check if none of that reveals a smoking gun.
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Reply #2November 03, 2019, 08:07:08 am

Majorpardo

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Re: Hello, first post and first 1.6TD troubleshooting questions
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2019, 08:07:08 am »
Thanks Libbydiesel. Sorry about my unclear post. Went and tinkered on it. It would not start. The dead battery, low tires, low fuel, and sticky door handle kept me busy so didnít spend much time troubleshooting engine on this trip.
It has a push button switch inside for the DIY glow plug solenoid. I could not hear the glow plug solenoid clicking so that might be it. And I could see some air in the clear intake fuel line. I donít know if these have a ďlift pumpĒ? Or prime pump?  I can try gravity feeding fuel directly on my next trip and bring tools and wire to hot wire glow plugs.
  I did grab the factory service manuals so can read about adjusting the injection pump and cam timing.
 Itís a decent looking wagon for its age. Odometer says 458K mikes lol. Not the original engine or transaxle but still thatís far more than any other car Iíve ever worked on. I noticed it has rear disc brakes. The undercarriage doesnít look bad or beat up like some cars Iíve seen. No rust. Interior is a bit musty but should clean up.

Reply #3November 03, 2019, 02:08:53 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: Hello, first post and first 1.6TD troubleshooting questions
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2019, 02:08:53 pm »
Majorpardo, Your quest is before you!

I would take the service manuals, a multi meter to measure 12 vdc and resistance, metric sockets and wrenches and a general set of tools like pliers and screwdrivers. 

Just because that DIY button goes click doesn't mean the GPs do anything that they are supposed to.  That is where the meter will come in handy.  Placing it on the glow plugs and clicking the switch will verify you are getting voltage to the proper place.  But even that might not be all you need to have.  Like Libby said if you pull the injectors you can hit that switch and have someone or yourself be looking down those openings where you pulled the injectors and you should see a red glow going on.  You could also test them individually with the meter for resistance.  Infinite resistance, or no needle movement if analog meter, Means non working plug. 

As this thing has sat for several years you may have a fuel problem to sort out as well.  The IP pulls fuel to itself, only if the filter is not restricting the flow, the lines are not leaking and there is not a plugged line going to either the pump or the filter from the tank.

Bringing a means to fuel it from a bottle or jug or jar will go a long way to solving those problems.  If it starts and runs off a line from the bottle to the IP and then back in a closed loop it lets you know all it good on the engine and filters, lines and tank may be a problem.  You can pull the out bolt off and fill the IP from there to a point where it should be able to draw fuel by itself from a bottle.

You need a dial gauge or something to put in the hole in the back of the IP to adjust timing.  Special tools that are a must have to do this correctly.  But If you do get it running it might be all you need to do  to make it better is to loosen the three bolts that hold the IP solid to the front bracket and underneath on the back there is another bolt.  Kind of a pain to get to with the Rad hose in the way but I use an extension on my 3/8 inch drive and a shorter socket.  Then just press against the hose a bit seems to work for me.   

Bring jumper cables and or one of those jumper batteries.  You may need to crank on it more than you think.   Loosen the nuts on the top of the injectors if you don't take them out.  Cranking for a good count of 10 a couple of times should show fuel to that nut.  Don't grind on the starter for long periods of time.  They are doing a lot of work and get hot.  Put your hand on it and see if it is after a couple of tries. 

Good luck, you will be happy to get it running and get better mileage.  You will be saving money only after you buy about 300 dollars in replacement parts.  Yes, old cars that sit are not free. 
Looking to add fender trim, LED lights and a bumper push to the truck soon.

Reply #4November 03, 2019, 07:04:43 pm

Majorpardo

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Re: Hello, first post and first 1.6TD troubleshooting questions
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2019, 07:04:43 pm »
Thanks ORCoaster. I appreciate the pointers. Next time Iíll go ready to camp out until itís running. My mission may turn into a siege lol. Driving this shorty school bus around has gone far enough. $20 every time I go out. But at least I can bring everything: generator, air compressor, extra battery, tools upon tools, fuel, heater,.......and hot wire!
 I forgot to loosen the injector lines. I was distracted. His unpleasant wife returned home and found me there working in it and started snooping around to see if I was stealing anything. Guilty until proven innocent. Iíve known him longer than she has. So I just left and will only go back when he is there. He was there when I started but left to go to a meeting.
 Anyway, Iíll be better prepared next time. As mentioned towing insurance was probably the wisest choice as who knows how many trips this will take. As I tow with a Motorhome Iíve been wondering about Good Sam roadside assistance?? Or AAA Plus.
 So, no one mentioned replacing the seals on the injectors so Iíll reuse the old ones? For now anyway.  Not sure where Iíll be getting parts from yet anyway.
  Iím really curious how stock the engine is. Whomever built it put some TLC into it and a lot of miles. Even if it needs major work Iíd like to rebuild it.
 Iím in Pickup truck country but only about 25 miles from Bellingham, WA. Someone mentioned thereís a small shop that specializes in 1996 B4 wagons there but also works on B3, Audi, Jetta, Rabbit, Caddy,....apparently they know how to lift these wagons a couple inches so they are not such a toboggan. I mean if I tow it behind my Motorhome through the woods lol.
 

Reply #5November 03, 2019, 09:26:43 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Hello, first post and first 1.6TD troubleshooting questions
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2019, 09:26:43 pm »
Injector heat shields distort to seal against the tip of the injector.  VW says they are single-use.  Some people use a small ball bearing and whatever is necessary to press on it and the heat shield to push that lip back out so it will seal again.  Doing nothing and reusing the shield and having it in the engine for an extended period of time is ill-advised.  The carbon from combustion can shoot up the injector area and seal them into the head making them near impossible to remove. 
Use, abuse or ignorance of any information is at your own risk, confirmation or refutation is your own responsibility, no further 'proof' will be given, take it or leave it, YMMV,terms subject to change without notice, avoid contact with eyes or skin, contents known to cause cancer in California

Reply #6November 03, 2019, 09:33:19 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: Hello, first post and first 1.6TD troubleshooting questions
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2019, 09:33:19 pm »
Ahh forgot to mention about the injector seals.  You can reuse them BUT YOU HAVE TO REShape them.

How to do that?   A pair of vise grip pliers, a steel ball and a socket about 11 or 12mm in size.  I think there is a sticky on it somewhere.  I will look later and edit if it find it.  But here is the process.  Take the shield, place the socket under it as it would be an injector, the flat side.  Then set that combo on the jaw of the vise grip.  Open the grip enough to set the steel ball, about a 3/4 inch one is what I use.  Rob the kids marble set.  Then close the pliers until it comes close to tight.  Adjust the tension a little bit so that you can close them. 

Open them again and tighten a bit more, do this in small stages.  I use an injector to rest it on each time to see when I get to the point where the middle of the shield will rest on the injector and a small line will show on the flat edge.  Once you get to that point you are done squeezing on them. 

What you are trying to do is to get the middle of the shield to hit the injector first when you go to tighten it in place.  That will ensure you will be transferring the heat away from the injector and into the head. 

Hope this all makes sense.  Oh and a warning, if you  have cold hands, knuckles that bind or otherwise hands that aren't real loose you will find this process a pain in the fanny.  It is a balancing act for sure.  The pressure on the ball tends to push the shield off the socket and the lower jaw of the pliers.  Once you practice on it a bit it won't be so hard to do.  And you will not need to spend your money on new ones just to get that curve your injectors need. 

Plenty of places to buy parts from.  Do a search and see.  This was as close as I could come on short look:

http://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,36769.msg344804.html#msg344804


Lifting the wagon beats lowering it in my opinion.  I have lifted my Rabbit and Pickup.  I wish I could afford an air system on it just for the sake of raising it to work on it.  If I don't put it up on ramps to work on it my back ends up killing me later on. 

Edit after post::::: Dang second place again.  But I don't mind loosing out to this gentleman.  A great resource IMO.
Got the warning someone else posted while I was writing my stuff.  Libby beats me again.  Thanks guy!!!
« Last Edit: November 03, 2019, 09:43:08 pm by ORCoaster »
Looking to add fender trim, LED lights and a bumper push to the truck soon.

Reply #7November 03, 2019, 11:38:11 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Hello, first post and first 1.6TD troubleshooting questions
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2019, 11:38:11 pm »
Be sure to closely inspect the reshaped heat shield.  It is not uncommon for the reshaped center area to get small cracks and if there is any doubt, throw it out. 
Use, abuse or ignorance of any information is at your own risk, confirmation or refutation is your own responsibility, no further 'proof' will be given, take it or leave it, YMMV,terms subject to change without notice, avoid contact with eyes or skin, contents known to cause cancer in California

Reply #8November 06, 2019, 05:52:24 am

Majorpardo

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Re: Hello, first post and first 1.6TD troubleshooting questions
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2019, 05:52:24 am »
Fantastic! The reforming process you described for the seal/shield is innovative. In the true sense of the word thatís mechanics at its best. Actually repairing and reusing something. I grew up in Kenya with the notion to do whatever it takes to fix the vehicle using limited resources at hand. Iím glad to know about this repair especially if Iím working on it out in the field somewhere. I didnít think of the part being a shield as well as a seal.
 Learning patience to closely inspect everything before and after disassembly is important. Not being distracted. So thanks for the reminder to use a looking glass for cracks on the shield/seals.
 I asked him if it had been overheated in his experience. He said it did loose a heater hose and heat up but not badly as he pulled over got his nephew to tow it home. Here in Puget Sound the temperatures are mild generally. I think itís easier on vehicles. Iíve read about other places like Texas and think my old vehicles would not survive lol. I never owned a car with a functioning air conditioner until I got this van from Florida. But I once drove a $50 pre Cash for Clunker car 45 miles with no water in it. Rattling the whole way.
 

 

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