Author Topic: A/C on a 1986 1.6TD (Read 8070 times)

jtanguay · « **Reply #15 on:** July 13, 2006, 10:27:41 am »

I hate r134a. it can't even be recharged. The whole system must be evacuated, and then recharged with fresh r134a (supposedly consists of 3 gases, and one of them has a really small molecule which can leak past even good seals.. which just plain stinks)

I am quite confident that if you were to switch to the HC-12 (hydrocarbon aka propane refrigerant) you will not have a leak problem anymore (only if it was a phantom leak.) If it's a bad leak, then you need to use a sealant, or if its severe, then maybe new o-ring at the leaky joint.

HC-12 runs with a lower head pressure as well, about 3/4 of the pressure of R134a. This means that the chances of the compressor leaking out the gas its lowered greatly.

With all the benefits of the HC-12, there is one more benefit. It can be recharged if you're running low-unlike r134a.

Forgot to mention too. Canadian law states that you cannot bleed off refrigerant into the atmosphere. It must be reclaimed. I wouldn't worry about bleeding off HC-12 since its not ozone depleting. Still considered illegal though. However R134a is illegal to dump. So if you plan on switching, just go to an A/C shop to get it evacuated and pull a vacuum. (vacuum is best... and it will get rid of most of the crappy lubricating oil as well)

arfalberg · « **Reply #16 on:** July 28, 2006, 01:10:04 pm »

Did some research and found this.

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/609/saeepawarning.html

Notice the illegal part in the first paragraph? There is more than likely a good reason for that.

I think I will get something else.

jtanguay · « **Reply #17 on:** July 28, 2006, 10:09:05 pm »

Illegal in the U.S. good thing I live in Canada! If you have a leaky system, then by all means, installing the HC refrigerant is pretty dangerous. I don't have ANY leaks, and I've been using the HC refrigerant for over a month now with no problems, and I'm extremely content with the performance + temp of my system. There appears to be no pressure drop on my system as well. I have used a can of the Duracool system seal and that should keep the joints nice and sealed tight.

I don't like the EPA. They give our diesel cars a really bad MPG reading. Probably because they don't know how to drive. As for cutting up HC refrigerant, they can bite me. Instead of trying to encourage SAFE use, they merely oppose its use and see it as a threat.

HC refrigerant has a auto-ignition point than R134A (1635F!!! Your turbo will melt before this stuff will explode). Plus the fact that you only need 40% of the amount of R134A and 35% of CFC-12 to cool your system makes it extremely appealing, doesn't it? After all, you're going to see less pressure in your entire system (mostly the high side), which will mean it will be less likely to have leaks! Less head pressure, and also less head temperatures mean that your compressor isn't going to be working as hard, and as such will have extended life (less likelyhood to break down due to overheating).

So as long as your system is good and sealed, I can't see anything wrong with it. If you go with R134A you need to change all your seals btw, or it won't last more than a year. (unless you use a sealer... maybe).

If I ever explode because I have approx 12 oz of propane in my car, I will make sure to make one last trip to my pc and post on here with my results. :lol: (and that is IF I don't sniff it out before it ignites... hint: roll down windows)

**no I'm not a salesman for duracool, I'm just pro-environment, pro savings, and pro-health; I'm also into colloidal silver if anyones interested. This is a nice read http://www.hychill.com.au/pdf/facts.pdf haha supposedly some car fires were reported, but they were charged with R12 and R134A... not the HC... I'm beginning to believe that the EPA is being payed off :x

edit: read the duracool faq http://www.duracool.com/Duracool/faqs.html

arfalberg · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2006, 03:31:10 pm »

great comment. Honest i love it.

i may actually reconsider it now.

however, my one reserve is not the auto-ignition point (the temp were the substance bursts into flame in its own) that i am worried about it is the car crash with sparks, fuel, and flames that caused the leak in the a/c system that i am worried about directly-igniting the obviously flammable gas.

jtanguay · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2006, 04:10:35 pm »

Quote from: arfalberg

great comment. Honest i love it.

i may actually reconsider it now.

however, my one reserve is not the auto-ignition point (the temp were the substance bursts into flame in its own) that i am worried about it is the car crash with sparks, fuel, and flames that caused the leak in the a/c system that i am worried about directly-igniting the obviously flammable gas.

that was my concern too... but if you think about it, the condensor would be the first thing to crack right? so the hood of the car would blow off... and thats only if there is a spark to ignite it.

If for some reason the evaporator cracked... well that would suck for me :cry:

As I stated before, a dump valve would be a neat idea in case of collision. However it would pose a lot of engineering problems. Where to dump the gas... etc...

For an alternative, I have been researching Thermoelectric Peltier coolers. Pretty neat little devices using the flow of electrons to carry heat from one side of the plate to the other. Introduce a flow of heat, and you can create a flow of electrons (thermoelectric power generation).

I am considering creating a system that uses the waste heat from the engine/exhaust to power the coolers for an air conditioning system. All I need is some aluminum water blocks with flat surfaces to mate the plates. (will have to find somewhere to machine, either at the college, or who knows). I have around 10 350W peltier plates if anyone is interested in doing some testing with me!

My idea of how it would work, is as such: Hot engine coolant runs through the water block to the peltier plate, other side of plate has another water block and is connected to another rad in the front of the car (in place of the condensor). For the cooler, the heat would be extracted by means of a separate rad to keep water chiller temps low. The chilled water from the cooler could either be sent through the evaporator (with some modification to the pressure valve, as in removing it) or spliced into the heater core in the car with some solenoid valves to divert hot coolant somewhere else in the motor. Only problem with using the heater core, is that the condensation might puddle in there, so there will probably be a need to drill a hole + add a drain hose.

When I started thinking about this whole idea... I thought to myself. Maybe I should just buy a new condensor and charge it and see if I can get the original system working first :lol: