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#30
by
lord_verminaard
on 05 Jul, 2006 22:12
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VW counterflow heads have horrible flow characteristics, especially in the higher RPMs. Why do you think VW switched to a crossflow head on the MK3 ABA 2.0 gas motor???
Hmm, so the racers that use ABA bottom ends promptly throw the heads in the garbage and put solid-lifter JH heads on instead have no idea what they are doing then? Counterflow heads flow quite well, especially after a little porting- sure, they dont scream into the 7000 rpm range as well as a Honda would, but most of the time people dont build them that way. TDI heads have the potential to flow a lot of air, if anything would be hurting airflow potential to spool up a turbo, it would be the stock TDI cam.
Not to be a jerk, just posting what I've read. Math works great for a starting point, but lots of people on here have done that already and realized that there is more to be had than what the math has calculated. Hillfolk, and others, are proof of that!
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
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#31
by
andy2
on 05 Jul, 2006 22:49
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I may have a good combo for you hillfolk'r,In fact I will likely be running it myself very soon with the compounds.I will be putting the hy35 assembly into the hx30W turbine housing.The Turbine wheel OD's are the same and both housings also have the same nozzle area dimentions,The exducer bore will be the main up size.The hy's heatshield is bigger so the hx30's housing will need to be adapted to accomidate this without any issues :wink:.
So now we've droped the A/R way down by switching housings and still will flow well on the the top end without possibly opening the wastegate :wink:.
I agree that the hy35 won't work too well for your TDI,but possibly by making a hybrid out of another it should work well :lol:
Experts feel free to chime in about this making any sence.
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#32
by
andy2
on 05 Jul, 2006 22:51
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Just try the hy straight up and if it does'nt work too well then try what I'm doing.
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#33
by
therabbittree
on 06 Jul, 2006 07:31
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a tip for any one taking apart the hy35 from a dodge truck..its got a metal set pin for the the compresssor housing , ie ..to lock it in the right position for a dodge..ie you can't just let up on the snap ring and clock the housing..you have to take the snap ring out and then lift the compressor housing up ...remove the set pin and then you can play..what cm is this hx30 housing?..what does it cost?...the hy is 9cm..is the hx30 smaller?
thanks
deo
\x/ hillfolk!
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#34
by
andy2
on 06 Jul, 2006 07:44
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The turbine housing on the hy is also located using another pin as well.I figure that the hx housing is somewhere around 6cm if I had to guess(.42-.47A/R)???I don't know.
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#35
by
DVST8R
on 06 Jul, 2006 13:42
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Bling, bling... Now is the hx-30 housing divided or?
Does it require any machining?
This maybe the best cheap solution yet, instead of a custom housing.
Andy are you going to try this combo with your twins first or just as a single?
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#36
by
A2TD
on 06 Jul, 2006 14:33
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VW counterflow heads have horrible flow characteristics, especially in the higher RPMs. Why do you think VW switched to a crossflow head on the MK3 ABA 2.0 gas motor???
Hmm, so the racers that use ABA bottom ends promptly throw the heads in the garbage and put solid-lifter JH heads on instead have no idea what they are doing then? Counterflow heads flow quite well, especially after a little porting- sure, they dont scream into the 7000 rpm range as well as a Honda would, but most of the time people dont build them that way. TDI heads have the potential to flow a lot of air, if anything would be hurting airflow potential to spool up a turbo, it would be the stock TDI cam.
Not to be a jerk, just posting what I've read. Math works great for a starting point, but lots of people on here have done that already and realized that there is more to be had than what the math has calculated. Hillfolk, and others, are proof of that!
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
Actually you got it wrong most ABA(racer) guys swap the 9A 16V head, whichs make an ABF motor(available in Germany only). This will drop the compression down to about 9:1, are you gonna tell me the JH head flows more than a 9a 16V head???
As for the JH motors, most guys swap the ABA heads onto them so they can get an 8.5:1 compression ratio, ideal for a turbo gas motor.
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#37
by
vwmike
on 06 Jul, 2006 15:01
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Actually, VW switched to the crossflow head to improve crash protection.
People swap on counterflow heads because they want to keep their stock injection. The crossflow head flows a bit better but that's probably mostly due to the 7mm valve stems. All 1.8/2L 8v heads have a 30cc combustion chamber. The 16v heads all use a 45cc combustion chamber as does the 1.8T.
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#38
by
therabbittree
on 06 Jul, 2006 17:17
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argh arguing about this or that cyl head.....hey andy do you have a part # for this hx30 housing ?..or any others available ..do you need a engine serial # for cummins to look it up?..seesm like every time i want a weird cummins part i have to find some sort of serial # for it to order the parts..i have dug around plenty of wood chippers, excavators, and boats to get serial engine #...
yeah teh exhaust house just wasn'ty coming undone quite as easy as the other holsets i've done.. that pin explains it i will have to try another method..thanks for the tip.
later
\x/ hillfolk!
Deo
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#39
by
andy2
on 06 Jul, 2006 17:37
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I will be trying this combo with my twins again and will be using the T3 this time around instead of the k24 :wink:.
Its not a divided housing,very similar to the hy housing just smaller A/R.It will require two machining procedures to accept the hy guts but not a whole lot of work.
HX30W turbine housing PN# is 353429907,It looks like that anyhow.I'll check tomarrow to make sure.
My dad and I will be adapting this housing very soon,I will keep you guys updated and post some pics as well.
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#40
by
hillfolk'r
on 06 Jul, 2006 20:41
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lol,this is getting out of hand,now my manifold dude wants to install an ic too,"while we are doing this"
found a few on ebay,like a universal core deal,like 28 long 12 wide,and 3 thick(inches)
they were reasonable too like around 120 shipped!!
he's lookinat moving the rad a little so its mounted a little to the left,and a little angled like an a2 rad...
im trying to convince him lets get it running,then if it runs good,lets ic it
now this project is getting way outta hand
i may have to cut a hole in the inner fender for the airfilter
we may also have to cut up the neuspeed bar,the right rear part,and put more of an angle in one tube for more room
i said ill pitch the bar for now,but he likes em,i do too,so we will modify
i think he is sorta getting into it now,diggin it i mean
math math ,math blaaaahhh
what about my stock turbo? it shoundnt be "working" cause its like dead on the efficency thing,the math says,but the more ya dial the boost up,the more power it makes,even at hi 30's
yea rabbittree,i been playin with that turbo,basically sitting there is the carteridge,i cut off the wastegate bracket off the compressor snail,and beadblasted it so its purdy,lol
we got special compound action snapring pliers at work just for these turbos!!!
i saw that lil pin,after i figure out where the turbo will sit,ill drill so i can keep the pin
yea i agree with andy,if it doesnt "work" compound it!math and paper only get ya so far,then ya gotta go do it!!!!yea i can add 2+2,lol
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#41
by
935racer
on 06 Jul, 2006 21:31
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The turbine housing on the hy is also located using another pin as well.I figure that the hx housing is somewhere around 6cm if I had to guess(.42-.47A/R)???I don't know.
Dude that is pretty small if you are right, I have been using .48 T3 turbines for a while, and with the custom cam and extra fueling I am seeing about 20 psi at 3200-3500rpm, the nice thing is that my exhaust backpressure is super low as well, about 1.2-5 to 1, depends on what turbine wheel I use too, I have had 1 to 1 ratio but spool up was pretty slow especially for just one turbo. I think for my next compound setup I am gonna use a .48 turbine for the highpressure turbine, and likely just a slightly modified hy35 for the low pressure, I've come up with a few new things to get those turbines spinning up pretty quick
Well I hope so anyways, the 14mm head will definately help :shock:
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#42
by
andy2
on 06 Jul, 2006 22:47
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935racer your right the 6cm,hx30w housing is too small for an all out race machine. 6cm^2 converts into .38 AR at most.The 9cm^2 housing at .48 AR is the way to go for Hillfolk'r and my self.I'll retract what I said about the hx30/hy35 combo :oops:.
I think my spoolage problems were due to the k24's .3 AR and smaller wastegate hole.The T3's .36 AR and bigger wastegate will work better with the hy35+more fuel and your camsfaft too.
My old system with the k24 .3 AR and hx30 .38 AR worked well as they were sized about right,and now with the .3 and .48 it just doesn't work!!
I'll get this turbo business figured out sooner or later :lol:.
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#43
by
hillfolk'r
on 06 Jul, 2006 23:19
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so my hy with the 9cm figures out to a .48 ar? i dont think thats too bad,whats the stock garrett i had,or even the kkk im runnin now?,aint they like .38 or somethin???
actually this thing has such a low end "hit" of power,that some low end power being sacrificed i may actually consider that a good thing,as long as it comes back in the middle or top end
that stock turbo exhaust port into the turbo is soooo small,i dont think you could drop a quarter in it(can.or us :wink: )
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#44
by
andy2
on 07 Jul, 2006 07:57
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Sorry my mistake again,A2TD was right about the .54 AR on the 9cm hy.
Also I forgot to mention that There was a 6(cm) on the inside of the hx30 housing,and It really does look like a .38 AR when compared to the vw Garrett T3's .36 AR.
So the hy's AR still is a little big but may work good for us we'll just have to see.