TDI-M in Non-VW

[QuickTD]

Not much point in trying to time a mechanical TDI with an indicator, unless you want to record the value for resetting it later. There are no specs out there for a mechanical TDI, the IDI timing specs will be totally out to lunch for the TDI. Just crank it around until it runs well...

 The best way to find TDC without a marked flywheel is to use a dead stop screwed into the glow plug hole. "hillfolk'r" has pictured his version in a "homemade special tool" thread a while back. http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3800&highlight=tool Screw the stop into the #1 glow plug hole, turn crank till it stops in one direction, mark it, turn it the other direction until it stops and make a second mark. The point midway between the marks is TDC.

[macsdub]

yea there ya go with that link
im in ny and i dont have acess to my imageshack :cry:
thanks for posting that
um,ive got my tdi timed to like.98-.100 or so,pretty much like a "stock" td setting
my 12mm pump went right off my old  idi,and onto my tdi too
 i tried it at forst around .75,and it was smoky and stuff,i kept goin up to 1.00 and it was fine,i didnt try for more,its got plenty of power for me :wink:
dont worry itll rip your head off with the torque :twisted:

[deepmud]

so what about the rumor of the "no dial indicator" base timing - any input? Or do I need to get the tools and quit complaining I don't have them lol.

I feel pretty good about getting EXACT TDC with the pan off, and I guess if I go that far, the valve cover is no biggie. So I should find/set/mark 0 degrees - What about loosening the line on #1 and watching for fuel injection-pulse-leak?

macsub, my rig smokes like a steam pipe with white, at least till it warms up - think just adjusting for some advance is advisable or, again, man-up for the tools?

[QuickTD]

so what about the rumor of the "no dial indicator" base timing - any input? Or do I need to get the tools and quit complaining I don't have them lol.

You can reset the base timing on a later model 1.9TD without a dial indicator by locking the pump hub with a 6mm pin, loosening the 3 pump pulley bolts, turning the engine to TDC and then tightening the bolts. The trouble is you don't have a 1.9TD, so doubtful that 1.9TD timing will be ideal. It might get it running but you'll need to determine the best timing experimentally. Remember that "macsdub's" pump has a 12mm plunger, so his ideal timing will be somewhat different from yours with a 9mm plunger.
 

I feel pretty good about getting EXACT TDC with the pan off, and I guess if I go that far, the valve cover is no biggie. So I should find/set/mark 0 degrees - What about loosening the line on #1 and watching for fuel injection-pulse-leak?

 I tried to determine TDC once on an IDI on an engine stand without a flywheel. I first used your method of looking at the crank with the pan off, then re-thought that idea and used a dead stop through the injector hole/prechamber. Turned out I missed by about 10º with the "looking at the crank" method. You may have a better eye then me... I also like the dead stop method simply because it's way, way less work than pulling the pan.

[deepmud]

I'm concerned about the heat shields under the injector - if it's no biggie then great.

I do have a 1.9td in a way. The pump is a hybrid - it's a 10mm TDI plunger and cam in a 1.9td pump body - it will be interesting to see if it is already at stock 1.9td timing - thanks for the how-to - if it's already there, I'll try advancing it.

I was feeling confident in getting where the crank is at = I can measure if the middle pistons are truly at the bottom of the stroke - but if the bottom of the block isn't machined exactly at right angles for some design reason, it won't work for sure. Pulling the injector helps find the compression stroke AND TDC - seems like a win/win if it doesn't get me in more trouble

[deepmud]

well - I took these on the way out to work this morning. I see the mark on the cam pulley - I'm not seeing a place to put a 6mm pin on the pump pulley - I'm going to go search some more, but I'm missing the obvious please tell me

Somewhere I saw a thread on re-using heat shields, too......

[rabbid79]

Deepmud, can you post a picture of the fuel pump side of your engine?  I'm curious what the oil filter housing/braket look like.  Also, what engine code is that?  Thanks.

[deepmud]

looking for pics for ya' - it's the "angled towareds the flywheel" adapter...

here's a pic of the crank balancer, with a dot drilled for some timing purpose...





EDIT here's the best pic I have, when I first got the motor. I have since pulled the oil cooler/heat exchanger.

[QuickTD]

I'm not seeing a place to put a 6mm pin on the pump pulley

In your full front pic of the engine the pin fits in the pump pulley hub at the little slot at about the 2 o'clock position. The pump will need to be turned a bit more clockwise before the pin will go into the hole in the pump housing, the hole is obscured by the pulley hub in the picture. I have an edited photo but its on imagestation (may or may not work...), my favorite "uploadpixels" appears to have been hacked by some crazy turks...  Anyway, the big red arrow marks the spot that the pin fits through the hub.

[deepmud]

hmmm - knowing that, and looking at the pic, it seems likely the motor pic was taken just as the tech was finished with it.



SO - who knows about the markings? Looks like both the indicator on the crank is "down" as well as the mark on the cam - I think(might be pointed UP actually) - is that as it should be when setting timing? I have the original he sent me, somewhere, prehaps the cam mark shows up better there.

[deepmud]

the higher res pic says to me things could be off - and explain why the engine runs so bad.



link to the high res copy, un-paint-chopped

http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/registry/media/317496_1

again - I don't know where the marks are supposed to end up, but I will get them lined up this evening and see where it's at.

[QuickTD]

The mark on the balancer is a balance hole not a timing mark. There aren't any timing marks on the balancer of any VW engine I've ever encountered. The marks on the cam sprocket are also meaningless as it has no key and can be installed in any orientation. The cam must be locked at the rear with the cam locking bar.

  You might have trouble getting the pump timing pin installed since the TDI rear cover from that era does not provide access to the front of the pump housing where the pin bore is located. The TDI did not use the small pin/slotted pulley timing method until the new style ALH engine, so the rear timng belt cover does not provide access. The installer must have done some cutting to get the hub through the cover though, so you migh be alright. The hub cannot be removed from a late model 1.9TD pump, it has no key and the timing is lost if it is removed.

[deepmud]

ok - thanks for the tip . I am about at the end of the "over-thinking the problem while stuck at work" mode so I will soon get some more info when I get back to the motor and look it over again. I'll set the cam mark straight up? staight down? and see were the pump is, and look for someone to have marked the pulley. Or whatever

EDIT - the motor is a 1998 110hp Passat from CZ, but not an older AAZ block (my 1.9td motor mounts wouldn't work)- - I'll see what I can find about which block it is too.

[rabbid79]

Deepmud, thanks for the pics, they helped.

[QuickTD]

You really have to stop looking at the front of the motor, there ain't no timing marks there. The cam sprocket fits on a taper so it can be installed in any orientation so the marks are useless. You have to pull the valve cover and use the proper setting bar or a suitably thick hunk of metal to set the cam position. And until you properly mark the flywheel, you'll be working blind there as well.

 I consider any of the TDI's that still have an intermediate shaft to be the old style block. There are variations in the machining for transverse/longitudinal mounting that can hinder the use of some mounts but its the same basic lump as the north american AHU and the older IDI AAZ.