1.6TD now won't start at all! - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• 1.6TD now won't start at all! by vwbusman66 on 02 Jun, 2018 11:24
• See prior discussion here: http://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,37346.0.html
  
  Wednesday, I let the car run for about 45 minutes (some driving, some idling). I shut the car off, and then went to restart it- of course it wouldn't start.
  
  Then, thinking it was doing the predicted issue, I waited 3 hours, tried to start it, and it still wouldn't start.
  
  I returned Friday with a new battery (the one in the car was 7 years old)- the car refused to start. Thinking maybe it was having an issue with fuel, I cracked all of the injector lines and verified I had fuel there. Then, I connected a wire directly from the shut off solenoid to the positive terminal on the battery. I closed the injector lines, and the engine still wouldn't start!
  
  This morning, I installed two new Bosch glow plugs in cylinders 3 and 4 (easiest to get to). Still, will not start. Then, I used my MityVac and drew fuel all the way through the return line (the fuel filter is full, as is the IP). It will not start. I then hot wired the shut-off solenoid again, and it wouldn't start.
  
  One thing to note: During this whole affair, after a little bit of cranking, the exhaust would begin to emit some grayish smoke.
  
  I'm stumped. Is the starter not cranking fast enough?
• #1 by rabbid79 on 02 Jun, 2018 13:42
• Perhaps your injection timing is off?  Have you verified that your cold start cable is actuating the lever correctly/completely?
  
• #2 by vwbusman66 on 02 Jun, 2018 15:50
• The cold start lever is actuating fully.
  Why would the car go from starting fine when cold to suddenly not starting at all though?
  
• #3 by rabbid79 on 02 Jun, 2018 19:19
• You're right, doesn't make much sense.  Make sure the injection pump is tight to the bracket and the bracket is tight to the block, stuff like that.
  
  You mentioned that you hard wired the shutoff solenoid, but did you ever try hardwiring the GPs?  Did you check the GP fuse?
  
• #4 by vwbusman66 on 10 Jun, 2018 12:01
• Tried again today- this time with GP’s and shutoff solenoid straight to the battery.
  
  Same as before. Grey smoke and not a hint of desire to run.
  
  Time to buy timing tools?
• #5 by ORCoaster on 10 Jun, 2018 14:54
• I had the brain fart moment last week when I replaced an IP and I knew it was full of fuel but I was unaware that the filter drained back into the tank because I forgot to plug the hose.  I wore down the battery, a spare and overheated the charger before I figured out that I needed to pull a vacuum on the pump a second time.
  
  You might need to start at square one, verify fuel at the top of the pump. Have a good battery and working glow plugs.  Pop the nuts on the injectors an be sure you have fuel there.  Then clamp it all down and try the key and start it.  You might try and test the wire on the IP shutoff as well, be sure it has voltage from the key.  Go ahead and try the tester on the GP's as well. 
  
  Gray smoke is never a good sign, neither is white or black.  Blue is about the only color that works and only in moderation.  I drive a 7.3 international engine in an old U Haul truck at work and it pours gray smoke until the one or sometimes two injectors warm up a bit.  Then there is a bark of black and the engine smooths out a bit.  Thankfully there are 8 cylinders on that one. 
  
  What are the chances you got some crud into one of those injectors when you were doing any work?   That might be possible.  Might need to disassemble one of them to get it out. 
   
• #6 by vwbusman66 on 10 Jun, 2018 17:16
• Quote from: ORCoaster on 10 Jun, 2018 14:54

  I had the brain fart moment last week when I replaced an IP and I knew it was full of fuel but I was unaware that the filter drained back into the tank because I forgot to plug the hose.  I wore down the battery, a spare and overheated the charger before I figured out that I needed to pull a vacuum on the pump a second time.
  
  You might need to start at square one, verify fuel at the top of the pump. Have a good battery and working glow plugs.  Pop the nuts on the injectors an be sure you have fuel there.  Then clamp it all down and try the key and start it.  You might try and test the wire on the IP shutoff as well, be sure it has voltage from the key.  Go ahead and try the tester on the GP's as well. 
  
  What are the chances you got some crud into one of those injectors when you were doing any work?   That might be possible.  Might need to disassemble one of them to get it out.
  

  
  I have already drawn fuel through the whole pump and filter system using a MityVac, verified power at the IP in both running and cranking positions, installed two new glow plugs, bypassed the GP system entirely, and installed a brand new battery.
  
  I didn’t do anything to the car/change anything. It ran fine. I turned it off, tried to restart it, and got nothing.
  
  I have fuel at all 4 injectors. I have glow plugs. A rebuilt SR34X starter is coming Wednesday.
• #7 by ORCoaster on 10 Jun, 2018 18:18
• From what you have done I would say that yes it is time to time your pump.  You can verify that #1 cylinder is at TDC by setting it to TDC on the flywheel and looking at the IP pulley.  Does the hole in the sprocket line up with the hole in the piece that the pump bolts unto?  An 11 mm socket normally lines up on the two.  I use a 3/4 inch carriage bolt and that works for me. 
  Timing might have just jumped on you?  It happens sometimes with a warm or loose belt. 
  
  Truly an aggravation that needs a solution. 
• #8 by vwbusman66 on 16 Jun, 2018 19:02
• The rebuilt starter, new LP oil pressure switch, and coolant temp sensor came Thursday as did the complete timing kit- dial gauge and adapter, cam plate, and the IP lock pin.
  
  My plan is to spend some time Monday evening checking the timing and belt tension.
  
  I wonder if the pump retaining bolt (the one that holds the timing setting of choice) worked itself loose enough to allow the timing to jump while it was running? Maybe when the PO did the timing belt, he fudged the tension setting so that there is excessive slop, also altering the pump timing.
  
  Maybe the starter isn't spinning the engine fast enough? Anybody have a video sample of good starting rotation speed for an engine like this?
  
  James
• #9 by ORCoaster on 17 Jun, 2018 00:14
• when my timing is set up to around 92 or so I barely have to hold the key over and it fires right up.  I usually count to 7 and then hit the key.  Only on fairly cold mornings, like 40 degrees F.  Does it take a 10 count on the GPs to get the same result.
  
  Once you start using the new toys yours should do the same.  Let us know how far it was from where you set it.  Just good to know if it was close or far away one way or the other. 
  
  Have you done timing before or will this be the first rodeo?
  
  
• #10 by vwbusman66 on 17 Jun, 2018 16:37
• Cam and pump timing is spot on. Ran out of will to check lift at TDC.
  
  I’m not happy.
• #11 by Dakotakid on 18 Jun, 2018 20:17
• Any time I have had a problem like this, it was always remedied by replacing the front seal in the fuel pump (the seal on the input shaft). The front seal allows loss of pump fuel prime.
  
  No, I am not going to debate you saying you have fuel at the pump, etc. I always did, too. But, it is not enough pressure to actually fire the injectors.
  
  Every time, as soon as I replaced the front seal.....problem solved. Eventually, ALL of my pumps were wearing new seals and I was never standing still. End of story.
  
  EDIT: and, no...I have not run any clear fuel lines in right at 30 years. You don't need to if you are half-way bright. And.....THAT is exactly what I am....half-way.