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Author Topic: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5  (Read 748 times)

April 23, 2018, 06:35:18 pm

komar

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Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« on: April 23, 2018, 06:35:18 pm »
Hello all! This is my first post ever here so please excuse me if I made mistakes (also English ain't my first language, so if there is something unclear just again, I'll try my best).
I'm gonna start soon working on my project car (1.9L D 1Y NA diesel 1993 golf 3) and I'm still trying to sort some things out before buying parts.
Performance wise it's already clear what I want and how to get it - adding a turbo either from AAZ or golf 2 1.6 td, inter cooler and complete engine tear down and inspection before all of this.
I want to focus on the next crucial part - handling and breaking. The suspension of the car is pretty sh*t (14+ year old shock absorbers and beated to hell springs from hauling heavy trailers) so I'll look for very stiff second hand springs and actually working shock absorbers.
Here comes my main question: can I replace the standard 4 bolt wheel hubs that I have on this golf, with ones from golf 3 GTI 16v without modifying them.
The reason why I want specifically from the GTI is that I own one (yes I own both the 1.9 D and the 2.0 16v golf 3s), and soon gonna replace both the disks and brake pads - figured I'll just replace them sooner and reuse the old ones in the project car (also use my 15 inch Nexen tires >) )
Just to be clear - I'm not going balls out or anything see how much money I have - using second hand parts, that are unsafe (yes I'm aware of that) but also cheap, is my way of enjoying the diesel golf and saving it from the scrapyards...
Also I can't modify the GTI since that is my daily driver and in my country (Bulgaria) you get a pretty hefty fine for each tiny "constructual change" you've made to your car.

Any information is greatly appreciated,  if I've missed topic in which this is already answered sorry but my internet search didn't show them and also if there are any others topics about adding turbo to a NA 1Y I'll be happy if you share a link with me - after all you could never have too much information :)



Reply #1May 24, 2018, 06:56:09 am

Bigmick77380

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Re: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2018, 06:56:09 am »
Hello,

First for your question, technicaly, you can do it, hub's have the same diameter (40mm), but you have a problème, brake système don't mount, you need a complete stub axle with the hub.

Next, i have the same car, with approximately the same project, but i directly swap the engine with an AAZ. If you don't want to swap, you need :

-AAZ injection pump with injector line and injector.
-a turbo.
-drill a hole in the crankcase for the return of the turbo oil.

Personally with my aaz i will instal tdi break, mk4 tdi gearbox ( much longer) and i want to build a homemade mechanical system for control a vnt turbo.

Good luck with your project :)

Reply #2June 06, 2018, 02:50:32 pm

komar

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Re: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2018, 02:50:32 pm »
Hello,

First for your question, technicaly, you can do it, hub's have the same diameter (40mm), but you have a problème, brake système don't mount, you need a complete stub axle with the hub.

Next, i have the same car, with approximately the same project, but i directly swap the engine with an AAZ. If you don't want to swap, you need :

-AAZ injection pump with injector line and injector.
-a turbo.
-drill a hole in the crankcase for the return of the turbo oil.

Personally with my aaz i will instal tdi break, mk4 tdi gearbox ( much longer) and i want to build a homemade mechanical system for control a vnt turbo.

Good luck with your project :)

After starting this thread I've talked to quite a few mechanics and have almost everything figured out.
1: My biggest problem going with the 1Y block is the gearbox - 020 type from which there just aren't much better ones than mine and will split in half after the engine passes 120-130 HP. (for my GTI I can just fit 6th speed from MK4 and call it a day)
2: Transplanting GTI suspension is easy (actually I found all the parts for 110-120 USD/euro) but you need all of it - the rear axle you can just bolt on
the brake calipers, but for the front one you need everything. Biggest problem here are the half-axle hubs that bolt to the gearbox differential - on a GTI and some TDIs (that use 02A gearboxes) they are 100mm while mine are smaller and they simply won't fit.
3: Maximum engine power: Let me just quote 1 guy "till 120 hp you can make it for 250$, for 150 hp even 2 500$ won't be enough".

I'm still going to do my project car, just figured out where are the borders and will try to stay at them (get the max out of it and have weekends rally-cross car).

Reply #3June 21, 2018, 03:00:46 pm

Bigmick77380

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Re: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2018, 03:00:46 pm »
Yeah, gearbox is an issue, i forget that i mount the aaz axle with the engine x)

For the power, that is not really true, you can make 120HP for nearly nothing, a kkk k14, a custom boost pin, governor mod (4 or 5 mm shim, max fuel adjustement, timing set a 0.95mm/1mm, an intercooler, and you have approximately 120hp.

For more, you can use a bigger pump head (10mm) with a 3mm camplate, but then a don't know about timing...

I'm from france and i see a french thread about an mk2 with an aaz and 200hp, don't pay big money for it, juste take a k24, fuel up the pump (a lot), big intercooler and some pump modification (don't remember what)

Reply #4June 24, 2018, 01:49:23 pm

komar

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Re: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2018, 01:49:23 pm »
Yeah, gearbox is an issue, i forget that i mount the aaz axle with the engine x)

For the power, that is not really true, you can make 120HP for nearly nothing, a kkk k14, a custom boost pin, governor mod (4 or 5 mm shim, max fuel adjustement, timing set a 0.95mm/1mm, an intercooler, and you have approximately 120hp.

For more, you can use a bigger pump head (10mm) with a 3mm camplate, but then a don't know about timing...

I'm from france and i see a french thread about an mk2 with an aaz and 200hp, don't pay big money for it, juste take a k24, fuel up the pump (a lot), big intercooler and some pump modification (don't remember what)
I just found kkk k14 with very little play for 25 bucks so yeah - 120hp is quite easy with big front intercooler and TDI fuel pump (that is also cheap). I was thinking of SDI cam also but that would be later in the future.
First I wanna fix my biggest problem: since my poor granny Mariika (dad named it don't ask) started in life as an Austrian car, the body is quite rotten. Fixing it is almost impossible so most likely I'm gonna search for other car in which I'll transplant my engine.

Reply #5June 24, 2018, 05:17:34 pm

Bigmick77380

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Re: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2018, 05:17:34 pm »
TDI fuel pump ? what do you mean ? don't know aboute the sdi cam, better than our IDI cam ? AWIC can be a good solution for very quick spool (that's what i want to do, with a VNT turbo, for a very, very quick spool)

Reply #6June 25, 2018, 06:00:54 am

komar

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Re: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2018, 06:00:54 am »
TDI pump for more fuel. I know I can mod mine, but found just one tutorial (which is a bit difficult to understand everything) and no photos or videos. That's why I prefer to just buy ready one, instead of potentially destroying mine.
About the SDI cam - it's has more aggressive profile compared to the TDI and 1Y cams (keeps the valves open longer, more fuel mix in the cylinders). Usually after upgrading the fuel injectors on a TDI, this is the next step - the SDI cam.
I would love to use VNT turbo too, but my car has no computer of any sorts so there's no point of running variable geometry turbo - I won't be able to use it.

Reply #7June 25, 2018, 12:08:09 pm

Bigmick77380

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Re: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2018, 12:08:09 pm »
You can't use a TDI pump on an AAZ, you can use a TDI head, but you need IDI camplate and calibrate the dynamic timing.

For the SDI cam, i will search about it...

I haven't any computer on my car (i have an AAZ) but i will use exhaust manifold pressure and intake manifold pressure for running the VNT.

With no or little exhaust pressure, exhaust actuator don't move, and intake actuator fully opened at less than 0.3 bar.
With exhaust pressure, exhaust actuator fully opened and compress the intake actuator, then intake actuator fully opened at 1.3bar

That's what i want :D

Reply #8June 26, 2018, 03:14:18 pm

komar

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Re: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2018, 03:14:18 pm »
TBH, the TDI pump idea is from a friend with 1Y Passat and I've never investigated that much - just blindly trusted him that you can do it and this is the easy way to get more fuel to the engine.


Now I didn't know you can manipulate the geometry without a computer. But AAZ same as my 1Y but with turbo I'm not surprised. 

As an owner of AAZ I have a question - look at this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIppyoHUOR0&index=2&list=PLJd8Wt4w5q_wxc0LBd1Y_Su2GC6rawwyL&t=0s) and please tell me is this faster than stock TD or not. (also what turbo has AAZ?)

Now, if I'm getting it right, you wanna use the intake pressure to manipulate the position of the geometry by moving the actuator? I'll definitely look into that. If you have any materials feel free to share too :)

Reply #9June 26, 2018, 05:31:17 pm

Bigmick77380

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Re: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2018, 05:31:17 pm »
I think it's slower than mine, but mine isn't stock :P, i think it's faster than a stock AAZ ;)

AAZ have K14, K03, K03 003, and some garrett turbo, but i don't remember which ones... (Mine it's K14 with 430 000KM (267 000 Miles) and absolutely no play :D)

Yes and no, I use the intake pressure to manipulate the position of the geometry by moving the actuator, but i use the exhaust pressure to change the setting (tare) of the actuator.
If you only use intake pressure, you will have good spool, but all the time even if you don't want it (like on highway) because if the geometry is close, you will slow down the exhaust flow, with that you have high EGT and high consumption....

But if you change the setting (tare) of the intake actuator with the engine load (exhaust pressure) you have less boost when you don't want it, and quick spool !

PS:that's my theory...
PS2: I'm french, i don't know if i have a good english :P

Reply #10June 28, 2018, 06:43:11 pm

komar

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Re: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2018, 06:43:11 pm »
Well mine will have big ass intercooler also so it should be faster than that also  ;D
I'm really starting to miss my 1Y. For the last 2 weeks my ABF left me stranded 2 times - the last one today and had to tow it for hour and a half (******* piece of ****). The first time was the contact key and now I suspect the whatever you call it that makes the spark before they split to the 4 cables gave up the ghost.  Both cheap fixes but if it wasn't for the trusty ML270, it was gonna spend the night in a really bad neighborhood.

I'll definitely ask my mechanics for this way to control VNT turbo so thanks a lot for the idea :)

And I'll definitely set the GTI on fire if that junk brakes again!

Reply #11June 29, 2018, 10:26:55 am

Bigmick77380

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Re: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2018, 10:26:55 am »
So many hate against your GTI  ;D

Like (i think) i said before, i will put an AWIC for fast spool, i think of 1.3 bar...

I think i also have a little probleme with my pump, because at the engine start, my idle isn't alway the same (sometimes behind 1000 rpm, sometime at 1000 rpm...) and when i drive on highway at 3000RPM + for long time, my idle drop at 850RPM, don't uderstand that...  ???

For my VNT, i build a little system with an Arduino uno, 2x pressure sensor (MPX5500DP) and 2x Type K (and max6675 controler for type K) temps sensor, a 16x2 LCD.
1 pressure and 1 temp for intake and 1 pressure and 1 temps for exhaust  :D

Reply #12July 01, 2018, 05:50:12 pm

komar

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Re: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2018, 05:50:12 pm »
The GTI has new (for me new, and second one on it's way) ignition coil and after I reconnected one wire for the LPG (that got torn off somehow while I was fitting the battery today) system, everything works on, for now.

My promise still stands - if it leaves me stranded somewhere in the next week, it will become a nice bonfire!

Now bout your Arduino plan, as a student learning "Automation, information and control engineering", this is  a great idea. Using the electrical actuator without car computer but by Arduino circuit with pressures sensors. You definitely got my imagination fired up to where you can take this :D 
With a few more sensors and one small monitor you can definitely make pretty handy "board computer" to tell you essential things like boost, temps and so on. I have a few RPIs, but never had an Arduino. Tomorrow is my first day at work at Festo (they make all kind of sensors for automation) so in a few weeks time I'll be working on that too :))

Reply #13July 02, 2018, 03:54:04 pm

Bigmick77380

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Re: Golf 3 wheel hubs - upgrade from 4 bolts to 5
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2018, 03:54:04 pm »
My bad, i'have made a mistake, i do the arduino system only for monitoring, but i see a guy who do a vnt control with arduno (search "dmn's playground" on google)
My vnt control will be 100% mechanic

 

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