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Looking for aftermarket cold start cable. AAZ in a Mk1
by
Jettagli16v
on 29 Dec, 2017 07:38
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Hey, Gang!
Hoping someone has overcome this before, as it's starting to get (sort of) cold in Orlando, Fl!
I have a Mk1 Caddy, with an AAZ and a Giles Pump. The car never had a cold start cable, and on the stock IP, it would start up fine. After the swap to the Giles pump, he strongly recommended I add a cold start cable (and use it), so I have tried a few. I bought a used cable out of a Mk1, and I had an old one out of my Mk2, but neither of them will push the cold start lever back to rest. They will pull the lever just fine, but not push it back. In the interim, I have had to bump my idle up to get it to start without sputtering.
I believe that it is because both cables are just old & deteriorated. When I push on the cable, the outer sheath just expands, so it doesn't have enough 'push' to push the lever.
I would like to find a compatible Bowden cable / morse cable / push-pull control cable to do the job.
Given that the original cold start cables are out of production, has anyone found a suitable aftermarket one of the right dimensions to fit into the dash & the holder at the IP?
Thanks so much!
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#1
by
ORCoaster
on 29 Dec, 2017 19:31
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Jettagli16v, I have found that the way to make the cold start lever work well is to make use of some nylon bushings I found at the hardware store. They go between the shaft and the bracket that holds the lever to the IP. Now if Giles properly rebuilt the pump this might have already been done for you.
The lever moves a cam inside the IP and that pushes on the advance mechanism, which is the ring the four cam ring runs on inside. There are springs on the other side of the IP that help the advance mechanism come back to initial setting which aids in the cable pushing it back into place. I would like to know if you have the keeper clip on the outer cable that keeps it from moving at all? Sort of a square looking thing with internal pieces that grab the end of the outer cable. That keeps it from pushing out of the bracket near the top of the IP.
I had a throttle cable at one time hooked up to the accel cable on one of my IP's to give me a sort of false cruise control. I was doing a lot of hwy travel and needed something that would keep me going while I rested the right foot. That was a pull and set sort of cable but it was stout enough to push the lever back to idle too. The problem with cables is getting the exterior part solid and the inner part mobile.
Not sure if I have my spare IP set up with the type of washers I mentioned but I can look in the morning if you would like pictures.
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#2
by
Dubdoc
on 30 Dec, 2017 04:23
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I have a new OEM cable here, but any choke cable will work.
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#3
by
Jettagli16v
on 02 Jan, 2018 05:41
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ORCoaster:
It is a new Giles rebuild, but I can tell you that I definitely have to exert some pressure to push the lever back to rest position. Previously, when the cable was hooked up, I can pull the cold start with reasonable effort, but when pushing it back to rest, the cable wasn't strong enough, I would have to push it back to rest with a screwdriver.
I didn't have the factory clips, but I went to the hardware store & got E-clips that fit snugly, so there was no play between the cable and the bracket on the IP, isolating all the movement from the inner cable to the arm. But when I pushed on the cable to turn the cold start off advance off, there was no movement on the lever on the IP. This was true for both my Mk1 cable, and my Mk2 cable, both of which came out of working cars. I know the lever worked in my Mk2 as well, so I suspect the lever on this pump is just a bit stiffer?
DubDoc:
Thanks, and that's what I was thinking.. I don't think an OEM cable would work (though I'd be interested to try, depending on the price and your return policy), but I know there are push-pull control cables that can exert 50# of force or more, so I was just trying to find a more robust cable, as the alternative would be mailing the pump back to Giles...
Thanks!
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#4
by
libbydiesel
on 02 Jan, 2018 08:42
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They will pull the lever just fine, but not push it back.
When you pull the cold start, you are moving the advance plunger against the spring pressure of the dynamic advance. When you push it in, it is going 'downhill'. It will practically snap back and requires very little effort. When you say it pulls fine but will not push back, that doesn't make sense to me. It makes me wonder if you have installed it correctly into the bushing in the injection pump bracket and have installed the correct clip to hold the cable in place? Post pics to be sure.
Regardless, the correct cable is the one for your year and not for the engine. Caddy would be mk1. With the correct mk1 cable and correct install there should not be any issue pulling or pushing.
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#5
by
RabbitJockey
on 05 Jan, 2018 15:33
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I've also had this problem, it doesn't seem to be with the cable or bushings but something to do with the spring and roller mechanism on the pump getting locked up too tight, my solution was to not use the cold start because it started at 5 degrees with only 1 glow plug cycle and sounded perfect. Something is funky with the tiny little roller deal back there
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#6
by
ORCoaster
on 05 Jan, 2018 18:46
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If you are having issues with at tight cold start cable and suspect that the roller ring and plunger are stuck or sticking then you have another more serious problem that needs attention. The fact that you don't have any or much advance when running. I have taken enough pumps apart to find that a layer of very nasty gunk is keeping the plunger from moving with ease. Once you get that out and cleaned up the whole assembly moves quite freely.
As mentioned it is under pressure by the springs of the advance mechanism and should be nearly snapping the cable back in place.
I believe you can service the plunger with the IP off and removing the two end caps, one on the front and one on the cold start lever area as well.
Check into it, your ride might get a lot zippy ier once it is cleaned and working.
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#7
by
libbydiesel
on 05 Jan, 2018 20:16
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I suspect that the cable is not routed through the bracket/bushing correctly or the clip is missing from it and the sheath is moving.
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#8
by
ORCoaster
on 06 Jan, 2018 19:14
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Kind of my thought as well. I have used zip ties in the past to secure cables to brackets or other cables to keep the outside from moving.
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#9
by
RabbitJockey
on 08 Jan, 2018 06:44
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the roller and spring i am talking about are external to the pump, its hard to describe, maybe i can get a picture later. there is a spring with a roller on it that falls into a groove on the cold start lever when it is pulled to kind of hold it in place, but once it falls in that groove is very difficult and nearly impossible to get out using the cable
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#10
by
RabbitJockey
on 08 Jan, 2018 06:46
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the bottom left portion of the picture is what i am talking about, the roller is black and rides along that rounded edge, and you can see there are 2 grooves along that edge where the roller gets stuck
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#11
by
RabbitJockey
on 08 Jan, 2018 06:59
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#12
by
ORCoaster
on 08 Jan, 2018 19:07
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Perhaps what needs to happen is changing the roller to something metal like. I hate weak parts. Might try a nylon roller if that black on is soft. Seems that is why you are binding once the cable is pulled out.
And of course this is on the inside of the pump not the outside so working on it requires pulling the pump? Is that a correct statement?
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#13
by
TylerDurden
on 09 Jan, 2018 03:49
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...
As mentioned it is under pressure by the springs of the advance mechanism and should be nearly snapping the cable back in place.
This.
I'd disconnect the cable and check the movement of the lever assembly... if it doesn't snap back when nudged off the advance detent, something is binding.
IIRC, the shaft has a small thrust bearing to allow it to turn under the pressure of the timing piston. That could be missing or borked.
TD
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#14
by
Frankinstyn
on 25 Feb, 2018 04:26
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I recommend this one. I've been using it for 4 years now and it has worked perfectly. You'll have to fabricate some way to hold it on both ends though. My rabbit had the metal tab to the left of the steering column so I use that.
Look up "World American PUSH CABLE 10FT" on Amazon.com I'm not allow to post a link. :-/
