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Author Topic: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600  (Read 553 times)

May 31, 2017, 08:27:47 pm

drzrma

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1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« on: May 31, 2017, 08:27:47 pm »
So seven years after my adventure with the speedo drive gear, during which time the car has sat, I finally get a well deserved kick in the butt and a lot of help from my Dad to get the 86 Jetta back on the road. Thanks Dad. We did manage to fish the speedo gear out of the trans after pulling trans from car and much frustration and profanity. Needed new flange seals and pushrod bushing and seal anyway, so there's that. Everything all back together, doesn't drool oil everywhere after new valve cover gasket, new timing belt, starts and idles beautifully.

Only problem is a complete lack of power. Won't rev above about 2600 rpm even unloaded, and won't make it up our admittedly quite steep hill even in first at WOT. Fuel filter is grunged up, of course, two new ones and a vacuum gauge on order, and I'll probably be bypassing the water separator because it's likely allowing air into the supply line somehow. Gave up trying to solve that set of problems and tried running from a quart jug of clean diesel, still have the same problem. We've made sure there's no air in the supply line, and plumbed a boost gauge in to the line from the intake manifold to the LDA, which shows no real boost. There might be 1-1.5psi, hard to tell because the gauge is temporarily zip tied to the hood and vibrates a bit. Absolutely no smoke at idle, with a bit of grey smoke at 2400 rpm at WOT, enough that you can see it in the rearview mirror but not a lot.

Yes we double checked that we aren't pulling a vacuum in the quart bottle, having done that before with outboard motors and felt really stupid about it. No the car didn't want to rev any higher going back down the hill in second at WOT, which was a little odd. Our best guess currently is that the wastegate may be stuck open or the valve seat may be seriously pitted, so we'll be pulling stuff apart to check that tomorrow. Garrett T3 turbo, and if anyone has any hints on how to get in to the wastegate actuator we'd be really grateful. Not really sure where to go from here without doing more high effort troubleshooting like pulling injectors and testing, etc. Hoping someone with a bit more experience on these engines has a brilliant idea, or at least some idea of what might be wrong.

Thanks in advance, and thank you all for the fantastic information available, it's been invaluable getting to this point in the project.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 08:57:19 pm by drzrma »



Reply #1May 31, 2017, 11:44:18 pm

fatmobile

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Re: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2017, 11:44:18 pm »
 I don't think the turbo has anything to do with it.
 It should run better than that without a turbo.
 I think you have the timing off,... maybe even 180 degrees out.
What color is the smoke?
Tornado red, '91 Golf 4 door,
with a re-ringed, '84 quantum, turbo diesel, MD block

Reply #2June 01, 2017, 12:12:15 am

drzrma

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Re: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017, 12:12:15 am »
Smoke is unburned fuel grey.

Car ran and drove when parked. IP timing should not have changed when we did the timing belt as we used both cam lock and IP pin. Followed the Bentley manual exactly, as I'm extremely paranoid about doing timing belts on interference engines due to a previous screwup. We had not checked the timing because of this, but do have a dial indicator and the tool to do it.

Edit: Forgot to mention we've been through the simple loss of boost troubleshooting stuff. No obvious exhaust leaks, exhaust manifold was off the car no cracks and not warped, same with intake manifold. Turbo spins, minimal play. Checked out hose clamps on the elbow hose and its hose clamps. BOV is seated properly and appeared intact. According to boost gauge we're not getting anywhere near where it would lift, so it's probably not part of the problem.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 12:17:31 am by drzrma »

Reply #3June 01, 2017, 06:11:19 pm

drzrma

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Re: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2017, 06:11:19 pm »
Quick update, we checked IP timing and it was ok. Possibly a touch retarded, I believe in the neighborhood of .94mm, but not wildly off. Given the easy starting and perfect, smokeless idle this wasn't a huge surprise. No easy fix there. Going to pull the inspection plate off the hot side of the turbo tomorrow and verify that the wastegate valve is present and functioning, but I suspect it will probably be ok.

Have some Diesel Purge coming Monday, maybe that will clear things up if we don't find turbo issues. Don't want to pull injectors and IP, but that's probably next on the list. I was wondering if smoke from the breather while the engine is warm and running is normal, wasn't a huge amount but was noticeable while we had the breather disconnected.

Reply #4June 02, 2017, 02:02:47 pm

drzrma

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Re: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2017, 02:02:47 pm »
Fatmobile you were right, turbo isn't the issue. We pulled the inspection plate off the turbine housing and inspected. Wastegate moved when we applied air, so diaphragm is fine, wastegate valve looked ok, and valve seat held brakeclean we'd sprayed in through the turbine so it's good too. Had hoped for something simple, but oh well. Maybe the Diesel Purge will sort it. We did verify that the oil in the diaphragm can was from blowby, not leaking turbo seals, so there's that.

Failing that we'll pull injectors, check them, and do a compression test while we've got them off. I'll look when I have time, but does anyone know offhand what size adaptor we need for the compression test?

Reply #5June 02, 2017, 11:21:45 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2017, 11:21:45 pm »
The adapter that goes in the injector hole is included in the Harbor Freight diesel compression kit I bought.  There is a combination of sleeve, adapter and then snap on for the gauge.  It all is designed to simulate the volume of metal that would normally be there if the injector were in place.  By size do you mean diameter and thread pitch? 

In the kit there is also the option to just pull a glow plug and get the reading by inserting that sized adapter too.  That way you can leave the injectors in place. 

I prefer to pull the injectors as the two GP behind the IP are a bit of a pain to get to.  Can be done but the injectors come out with a 17 MM deep socket I believe it is.  Careful with the removal on those.  Always push towards the head to loosen or tighten them.  Breaking the Injector boss lip off is a major failure for the head.  I think a presoak is also a good weapon of choice if you haven't pulled them in a while. 
Now Own 1981 Caddy as the NEW DISTRACTION to all that is around me.  Project Away!

Reply #6June 03, 2017, 12:08:31 am

drzrma

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Re: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2017, 12:08:31 am »
Yeah, diameter and thread pitch, although theoretically the correct kit has been ordered. We'll need to pull the injectors anyway if things don't clear up, which is good because as you say getting to the glow plugs behind the IP looks like just tons of fun. Lucky for me previous owner seems to have done new glow plugs, although I could have lived without the hack job that was made of some of the other wiring

Thanks for the warning about removal and reminding me to go soak them just in case. Maybe I'll be lucky and not have to do them. Ha.

Reply #7June 04, 2017, 04:45:09 pm

drzrma

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Re: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2017, 04:45:09 pm »
Hate to keep posting replying to myself, but good news at least. No idea what is actually in Diesel Purge, but it seems to be some kind of black magic. The other local auto parts place had a can, ran it through and it now acts like a real engine again. Still have a couple cans coming tomorrow so it will get at least one more. Boost was a hair under 10 psi at about 3500 rpm, with just a hint of light grey smoke up the hill at WOT. I guess the lesson learned is don't let your projects sit for seven years, or at least prepare them for storage if they're going to sit.

Thanks for the replies, I guess I should think about starting a project thread since I've still got some minor issues to sort out. I guess that's always the way though.

Reply #8June 05, 2017, 12:05:06 am

ORCoaster

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Re: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2017, 12:05:06 am »
Sounds like gooey injectors not delivering proper amount of fuel.  Like half or something.  Good and easy fix for you.  Did not see this was a sit for years sort of problem.
Now Own 1981 Caddy as the NEW DISTRACTION to all that is around me.  Project Away!

Reply #9June 07, 2017, 02:07:20 pm

fatmobile

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Re: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2017, 02:07:20 pm »
So you checked the timing using a dial gauge.
 The number was within range so you thought it was OK right?
 Try advancing it some and see what happens.
 Most TD owners are in the 1.00 range,.. depending on where your injectors are set.
Tornado red, '91 Golf 4 door,
with a re-ringed, '84 quantum, turbo diesel, MD block

Reply #10June 07, 2017, 04:31:19 pm

drzrma

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Re: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2017, 04:31:19 pm »
We ran another can and a half of Diesel Purge through it on Monday, threw the other half in the tank because I don't really want to think about what might be in there. We also grabbed a spare Dahl filter assembly from the pile of boat spares, I believe 10 micron cartridge filter with water/air separator and sight bowl, and plumbed it in above the fuel tank. Stock cartridge filter is still present, but should be a lifetime item at this point, and added a vacuum gauge post cartridge filter. Gauge showed ~7 inHg idling, which seems fine. Haven't seen anything evil come from the tank yet, we'll see what happens once things start sloshing around, but changing filters is now easy and we have a few spares. Not sure if the additional purge has helped anything as currently less two wheels, front tires were a little scary looking so they're off for new rubber.

We are aware timing could be advanced some, but it was so close to in spec we didn't want to screw with it until we had everything else sorted. Right now it starts from cold in one or two revolutions after a glow plug cycle with cold start pulled, no smoke on startup and no smoke at idle. The injector on cylinder 2 was just leaking a touch, but a new piece of return line seems to have solved that. I've definitely got a list of things I'd like to do, but for the moment a car that starts and runs reliably is more important than perfection.

Reply #11June 13, 2017, 01:22:28 am

fatmobile

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Re: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2017, 01:22:28 am »
It reads 0 when turned off?
7inhg is actually pretty high.
 It should read nothing. 3 or 4 is fine, when I get to 8 I worry.
Tornado red, '91 Golf 4 door,
with a re-ringed, '84 quantum, turbo diesel, MD block

Reply #12August 29, 2017, 03:45:33 pm

fatmobile

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Re: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2017, 03:45:33 pm »
Got clear fuel lines?
Tornado red, '91 Golf 4 door,
with a re-ringed, '84 quantum, turbo diesel, MD block

Reply #13August 29, 2017, 10:49:29 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: 1.6 TD No boost, no power, only revs to ~2600
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2017, 10:49:29 pm »
7 is high.  try blowing air down the inlet line towards the tank.  Remove the fuel cap prior to air injection or you might be bathing in diesel if you don't.
Now Own 1981 Caddy as the NEW DISTRACTION to all that is around me.  Project Away!

 

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